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Message to Carriers: Why Do We Root?

jefboyardee

jefboyardee

Extreme Android User
I see more and more users rooting their Androids, even newcomers rooting right out of the box. To me, that’s a screaming, obvious complaint that carriers are doing this all wrong.

By rooting, users willingly violate the carrier’s agreement so they don’t have to deal with the bloatware and restrictions that carriers are trying to force-feed them.

Worse than that, users and carriers both know that every byte wasted deteriorates the performance of these tiny computers. By including this crap, carriers are taking advantage of the efforts spent to make the Android possible.

You’d think the occasional carrier would read this forum, that he’d be interested in gauging the overall level of happiness with his industry. So this message is for you:

If you’d realize why rooting is becoming so popular, you’d also realize that this is an untapped, wide-open market. Users like me really don’t want to violate anything, don’t want to root for the sake of rooting, but someday will out of utter frustration... unless a clean, open Android is released, and soon.

I, for one, have six months left under contract. At that point, if the clever carrier hasn’t already acted on this advice, I and untold others are walking, away from you and straight into downtown Rootville... and we ain’t comin’ back.
 
Carriers don't care. Go ahead and root. Just takes them off the hook for warranty and support obligations. But that doesn't mean they wanna make rooting easy.

Rooted or not, ya still gotta buy phone and data service and that's what carriers are interested in. On or off contract, ya gotta pay to play.

Personally, with increased storage, performance and so many launchers, lockscreen replacements and other apps available, I find it much less worthwhile to root. Most Sense or Touchwiz-type crap can be replaced and bloatware simply ignored.
 
I see more and more users rooting their Androids, even newcomers rooting right out of the box.
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I noticed that too. And I've also noticed that unknown problems are more frequently being posted - 1/3 of that is caused by modifying the device.

Rooting is never an option, but more of a personal choice - one that I've personally choose not to do. I have no problem using my device just the way it is.
 
I like writing Unix scripts on my phone. I can't execute the scripts without root.
The additional carrier apps never bothered me because they weren't running and not taking up much space.
I also liked taking screenshots which in older devices couldn't be done without root.
Then of course there is titanium backup which for a while was the only "real" backup app and that too required root.

So while some are happy with their devices not being rooted, others want more from their device that can't be accomplished without root.
 
On a phone, its easier to do something and cause it to crash, unlike a Windows PC. And a PC also has easier methods for retrieving data than for a phone. So I'd say if I was a carrier, I'll still ship it unrooted as protection to my less tech savvy customers.

Also, rooting allows the users to bypass the carrier throttling of data in other countries, so I'd see why they don't want rooting. However, getting a subsidized device off a contract also means that the phone you are using isn't yours, at least until the end of contract, since basically you're still paying it off on installment to the carriers by way of their income from your monthly bill. So its their device at the start and may do to it as they please.

Just buy a full price device from non-carrier controlled stores and you'll do fine without the added locking of bootloaders by some carriers.
 
Crashdamage said:
Carriers don't care. Go ahead and root. Just takes them off the hook for warranty and support obligations. But that doesn't mean they wanna make it easy.

Rooted or not, ya still gotta buy phone and data service and that's what carriers are interested in. On or off contract, ya gotta pay to play.

Personally, with increased storage, performance and so many launchers, lockscreen replacements and other apps available, I find it much less worthwhile to root. Most Sense or Touchwiz-type crap can be replaced and bloatware simply ignored.
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I agree with the first half of this post. The carriers could care less about rooting. I would have to say that over whelming majority of people using android phones have no idea what rooting is. The people on this forum represent such a small group of android users.

Carriers aren't in it to please customers, they are in it for money. I just recently read an article that said the carriers are to blame for the lack of cell phone advancement before the iPhone came out. I tend to agree. While there were some smart phones available feature phones ruled the land, cheap phones that used barely any data.

What drove me to root my SGS2 was ICS. ICS has been out for the International SGS2 for months now and the At&t customers are still left in the dark. ICS alone is reason enough to root it's simply the best Android version out there. But this isn't an isolated case, how many phones have been put out to pasture in the update world because the carriers just move on to something newer? People are stuck on 2.2, 2.3 etc... on phones that can handle ICS but the carriers (and to an extent manufactures) just don't care anymore.

The problem with bloatware is that sometimes ignoring it isn't enough. My SGS2 came with AP mobile which uses huge amounts of resources even though I haven't even opened it since getting the phone. There is no reason for it and a lot of bloatware acts the same way.

Rooting isn't for everyone (heck I am no wizard at it), and often people rush to root without proper research and get themselves stuck with a phone that doesn't work. But rooting has big advantages. My phone, my TP and soon to be SGT 10.1 are all rooted for good reason. My phone runs better with the ROM I am running then it did with the manufactures ROM! To me that is just crazy (I donate to the guys who develop ROMS I use because they do an awesome job at it).
 
chanchan05 said:
On a phone, its easier to do something and cause it to crash, unlike a Windows PC. And a PC also has easier methods for retrieving data than for a phone. So I'd say if I was a carrier, I'll still ship it unrooted as protection to my less tech savvy customers.

Also, rooting allows the users to bypass the carrier throttling of data in other countries, so I'd see why they don't want rooting. However, getting a subsidized device off a contract also means that the phone you are using isn't yours, at least until the end of contract, since basically you're still paying it off on installment to the carriers by way of their income from your monthly bill. So its their device at the start and may do to it as they please.

Just buy a full price device from non-carrier controlled stores and you'll do fine without the added locking of bootloaders by some carriers.
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If you buy the device retail and paying for your minutes, texting, and data, the price per month is still the same. You aren't paying more because you paid the subsidized price, so you're not paying it off in installments.
 
Those who really want a bloatware-free device can either root (which sometimes has as many disadvantages as advantages) or get a Nexus and go to a fairly open carrier like T-Mobile US on prepaid or a Value Plan.

The other 95% or so of Android users...carriers will continue to give them a big middle finger. And 95% won't give it back. They just don't care or aren't tech-savvy enough to know better, so they'll take what carriers give 'em. They just want simple & easy - hence the success of the iPhone.

Nothing will change because carriers aren't worried about making the other 5% happy - no money in that. The money's in the 95% who happily eat whatever slop the carriers feed them so they can get a so-called 'free' or 'discounted' phone.
 
pool_shark said:
If you buy the device retail and paying for your minutes, texting, and data, the price per month is still the same. You aren't paying more because you paid the subsidized price, so you're not paying it off in installments.
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Yes they are. Its a business. They're not going to give you a $600 phone for $200 without a way to get the missing $400 back. That's stupid business. Basically, the most likely scenario is that they already calculated that they will be getting the missing $400 out of your monthly contract. Then to discourage the people from getting their phones unsubsidized, or to hide the fact from the consumers, they would simply put the same rates on a SIM only plan.
 
chanchan05 said:
Yes they are. Its a business. They're not going to give you a $600 phone for $200 without a way to get the missing $400 back. That's stupid business. Basically, the most likely scenario is that they already calculated that they will be getting the missing $400 out of your monthly contract. Then to discourage the people from getting their phones unsubsidized, or to hide the fact from the consumers, they would simply put the same rates on a SIM only plan.
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Then explain why the price of the contract is exactly the same whether or not you pay the subsidized price or pay retail.
If you were paying the phone off over the contract, then wouldn't buying at the subsidized price produce a higher monthly bill?
 
pool_shark said:
If you buy the device retail and paying for your minutes, texting, and data, the price per month is still the same. You aren't paying more because you paid the subsidized price, so you're not paying it off in installments.
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Depends on your carrier. chanchan05 is right - nothing is free. One way or another, you pay for a device. In the US T-Mobile gives cheaper rates if you bring your own device or pay full price for it upfront. Other carriers charge the same rate whether you own it or not - a blatant rip-off.
 
Yup, I think the answer is just "pure and simple rip off". Over on this side of the Atlantic you can get much cheaper contracts if you go SIM only.
 
pool_shark said:
Then explain why the price of the contract is exactly the same whether or not you pay the subsidized price or pay retail.
If you were paying the phone off over the contract, then wouldn't buying at the subsidized price produce a higher monthly bill?
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Simple:
To hide the fact that they are overpricing your bills and to make you think that you actually do get the phone free.
Basically, in the simplest terms, if their calculated earning from people who get subsidized phones is at $10 (example only), they are earning $20 from the ones who don't get subsidized phones since it doesn't count the losses from the phone towards itself.

You can also try explaining to me why is it that if the US carriers aren't overcharging you to cover up for the expenses of the phone they subsidized, how can carriers in my country can offer me a sim only contract for $50 a month, unlimited data (no caps), unlimited tethering, unlimited calls and unlimited SMS, which also entitles me to a rewards program of a free device worth $200 every two years?
 
chanchan05 said:
Simple:
To hide the fact that they are overpricing your bills and to make you think that you actually do get the phone free.
Basically, in the simplest terms, if their calculated earning from people who get subsidized phones is at $10 (example only), they are earning $20 from the ones who don't get subsidized phones since it doesn't count the losses from the phone towards itself.

You can also try explaining to me why is it that if the US carriers aren't overcharging you to cover up for the expenses of the phone they subsidized, how can carriers in my country can offer me a sim only contract for $50 a month, unlimited data (no caps), unlimited tethering, unlimited calls and unlimited SMS, which also entitles me to a rewards program of a free device worth $200 every two years?
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I'm not arguing that they aren't over charging, I'm arguing that we are renting or leasing to own the device by purchasing via subsidies because the contract pricing does not decrease if we pay retail.

If we paid retail and the contract pricing was cheaper then I would agree with you.
It appears that t-mobile is the only U.S. carrier that does that. If we pay retail we could get a pay as you go plan which I believe is cheaper, but just keeping your current plan, the price does not decrease by paying retail.
Outside of the U.S. they are experimenting with eliminating subsidized pricing. U.S. carriers are waiting to see out it goes and if it is successful they will most likely follow.
 
I rooted just because I find the ASSUMPTION of social, media, game apps offensive.
Don't use, don't want, some have caused trouble by turning on and downloading or connecting when user is not aware. I had Doubletwist do this, even though I never authorized it. I'm not condemning those that do - their choice.

I am with TMOUS, so I can get the value plan. I did sign a contract just in case the merger with ATT went through - it was even cheaper that the EM+ plan anyway. The biggest problem was with the SGS4G which I bought outright. I had to get rid of the bloat. The other phones were EU GMS and now the Nexus S which also had some stuff that annoyed me, but not as much. I rooted the Nexus with the process that didn't unlock the bootloader - everything just fine until the upgrade to ICS. I wanted Titanium Backup back, one root process didn't work right (no internal sd card) so I wound up with Cyanogen Mod. It does work, but finding some stuff rather strange.

As to why Cyanogen? Reading their wiki, someone must have aced Technical Writing. Most complete and thorough instructions IN COMMON ENGLISH, with no video.
 
I guess I'm the only one in the world who rooted and didn't remove any bloatware. I still have Teeter or Let's Golf or VCast videos or whatever other crap that VZW put on my phone that I never use and will never user. I root just to get a better backup. That has nothing to do with the carriers though, that's a limitation of the OS.

If the only reason people rooted was because of bloatware, then a Nexus device purchased from Google would never be rooted. But I'd lay odds that more of those devices are rooted than any others.
 
pool_shark said:
I'm not arguing that they aren't over charging, I'm arguing that we are renting or leasing to own the device by purchasing via subsidies because the contract pricing does not decrease if we pay retail.

If we paid retail and the contract pricing was cheaper then I would agree with you.
It appears that t-mobile is the only U.S. carrier that does that. If we pay retail we could get a pay as you go plan which I believe is cheaper, but just keeping your current plan, the price does not decrease by paying retail.
Outside of the U.S. they are experimenting with eliminating subsidized pricing. U.S. carriers are waiting to see out it goes and if it is successful they will most likely follow.
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You are leasing to own because of the simple fact you haven't paid it in full, and are bound to use the phone within their rules and regulations. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a clause in the contract that would enable them to get the phone back in case of any event where you are unable to fulfill your end of the contract within the expiry period.

Simply the same as a car where if you aren't able to pay the monthly bills if you are getting it in installment, they get the car back. The fact that the cost between a SIM only contract and one that comes with a phone remains the same doesn't matter. Its a simple act of ripping off the SIM only users. The fact that you pay for the phone in an installment manner speaks for itself.
 
Parshooter said:
I don't know for sure, but I bet that all of those pre-loaded apps are paying for the privalge of being on our phones. The carriers aren't going to turn down easy money for the convience of the few customers who don't want/use these apps.
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Not to mention the fact that a lot of customers see those apps as a value add. There are people out there who will pick Phone A over Phone B because Phone A has the NFL app and Phone B does not. Or Phone A has XYZ Game and Phone B does not. A phone that doesn't come with these things pre-installed does not appeal to them.

chanchan05 said:
You are leasing to own because of the simple fact you haven't paid it in full, and are bound to use the phone within their rules and regulations. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a clause in the contract that would enable them to get the phone back in case of any event where you are unable to fulfill your end of the contract within the expiry period.

Simply the same as a car where if you aren't able to pay the monthly bills if you are getting it in installment, they get the car back. The fact that the cost between a SIM only contract and one that comes with a phone remains the same doesn't matter. Its a simple act of ripping off the SIM only users. The fact that you pay for the phone in an installment manner speaks for itself.
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You are not leasing to own. If I walk into a store today and pay them $200 for a new phone, then walk out, I can sell that phone tomorrow. I recently paid for an upgrade from VZW, signed a two year deal and then switched back to my old phone and sold the phone I bought. I have every legal right to do that. I'm paying VZW for the service. If I fail to pay my phone bill, VZW is not going to take my phone back.

If you lease a car, you don't own that car. The dealer owns that car. You cannot legally sell that car unless you pay off that lease first because you don't own the car.
 
A.Nonymous said:
You are not leasing to own. If I walk into a store today and pay them $200 for a new phone, then walk out, I can sell that phone tomorrow. I recently paid for an upgrade from VZW, signed a two year deal and then switched back to my old phone and sold the phone I bought. I have every legal right to do that. I'm paying VZW for the service. If I fail to pay my phone bill, VZW is not going to take my phone back.

If you lease a car, you don't own that car. The dealer owns that car. You cannot legally sell that car unless you pay off that lease first because you don't own the car.
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Unless carriers there work again differently in this case to the carriers here, selling your phone does not mean you won't pay the rest of your contract within which is enclosed the rest of the phone's price. The carriers won't mind you selling the phone off since you'll still be "supposed" to be paying your contract. They already got your $200, and the rest of the money is on its way.
 
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