Montana Bans Tik Tok State wide

[AugieTN]

This just seem too crazy too be true, but it is true. No idea how they could enforce it.

Montana says 1st-in-nation TikTok ban protects people. TikTok says it violates their rights

 

[mikedt]

Does anyone actually live in Montana?

 

[ocnbrze]

Does anyone actually live in Montana?

my uncle has a cabin in Whitefish, Montana that is his summer getaway. he normally lives in Hawaii. but he leaves the island during the summer months to avoid the tourist season.

not really surprised. Montana is such a red state.

i mean if Utah can put an age restriction on Pornhub, anything is possible in conservative states.

When You Try to Watch Pornhub in Utah, You See Me Instead. Here's Why

“The idea of teenage boys watching my porn makes me want to vomit, and I know my colleagues share my sentiment,” writes porn superstar Cherie DeVille

www.rollingstone.com

this is what the good people of utah will see when they try to go to Pornhub:

if Utah can do that, than Montana can ban TikTok as dumb as it sounds.

 

[AugieTN]

Take that off your phone immediately or I'm calling Montana 911

 

[AugieTN]

Just heard on the news one could be fined up to $10K a day for violating the Tik Tok ban in Montana.

Now I'm waiting for more states to follow Montana. I'm think Florida may be next.

 

[mikedt]

Are they going to have some kind of "app police" inspecting smart-phone devices? Like they do in North Korea.

Although as I understand it, it's the app stores like Google, Amazon, Apple, etc. that will be liable to the fines and criminal liability for distributing TikTok in Montana. And that could be enforced with geo-restrictions on IP addresses, but is easily bypassed with a VPN. Which is something I do all the time here in China.

 

[Hadron]

I presume this is nothing at all to do with the collection of vast amounts of personal data, since "good" (i.e. American) companies not only do that but pioneered it, but because they've worked out that the app is Chinese?

Has Florida banned Disney+ yet? If not shall we start a sweepstake on how long before deSantis tries?

 

[AugieTN]

People in Montana will start buying burner phones for Tik Tok

 

[iBowToAndroid]

if Utah can do that, than Montana can ban TikTok as dumb as it sounds.

No. Banning it outright violates the First Amendment, specifically the free speech part

Are they going to have some kind of "app police" inspecting smart-phone devices? Like they do in North Korea.

No. They would order all ISPs in the state to block TT's servers, basically.

Except it'll never get that far because it'll be ruled an unconstitutional law

 

[svim]

it's a non-issue really. Just another empty bill politicians submit to give the false impression they're actually trying to do something instead of just wasting our tax dollars. It can't be implemented on just a state level, that isn't how the Internet works.
They should be working on things that actually do have a positive impact on society, but that requires the ability to have real discussions and debates, and then make realistic compromises. Something that requires people that have a higher level of verbal and mental skills that our politicians sadly appear to lack.

 

[iBowToAndroid]

it's a non-issue really. Just another empty bill politicians submit to give the false impression they're actually trying to do something instead of just wasting our tax dollars. It can't be implemented on just a state level, that isn't how the Internet works.
They should be working on things that actually do have a positive impact on society, but that requires the ability to have real discussions and debates, and then make realistic compromises. Something that requires people that have a higher level of verbal and mental skills that our politicians sadly appear to lack.

Wouldn't it be great if competency won elections, rather than dollars....?

 

[AugieTN]

We have a very conservative Supreme Court, I can see them upholding the Montana law on the grounds of national security. We'll see what happens. I'm betting it will be upheld

 

[mikedt]

We have a very conservative Supreme Court, I can see them upholding the Montana law on the grounds of national security. We'll see what happens. I'm betting it will be upheld

"grounds of national security" is one reason why China bans many foreign apps. Of course there's no First Amendment rights to free speech in the PRC.

BTW are there any updates on the RESTRICT Act bill, that could criminalise the use of VPNs in the US?

VPN Users Risk 20-Year Jail Sentences in the US Under New RESTRICT Act

A bill dubbed the 'RESTRICT' act was submitted to Congress and could have severe consequences for VPN users in the United States.

beincrypto.com

I still remember First Amendment free speech advocates howling about the DMCA(Digital Millennium Copyright Act).

 

[svim]

Well there's not a lot of validity to our First Amendment any more. We're currently cursed with a horrid two-party political system that will never allow itself to give up its now massive amount of power, and one of those two parties have redefined 'free speech' to be equal with hate speech, conspiracy theory, and right-wing extremist babble. Promoting the murder of entire segments of the population is now allowed on Musk's Twitter. Hey, Nazi beliefs are just 'free speech'!

 

[iBowToAndroid]

Well there's not a lot of validity to our First Amendment any more. We're currently cursed with a horrid two-party political system that will never allow itself to give up its now massive amount of power, and one of those two parties have redefined 'free speech' to be equal with hate speech, conspiracy theory, and right-wing extremist babble. Promoting the murder of entire segments of the population is now allowed on Musk's Twitter. Hey, Nazi beliefs are just 'free speech'!

Hate speech, conspiracy theory, and right-wing extremist babble are all considered "free speech" under the 1A, unfortunately.

Unless you're articulating specific and detailed threats against specific persons, you can ramble about hating Jews as much as you want

 

[Windroid]

This is why we can't trust app stores! They can be forced by government into removing apps the government doesn't like. Don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying we should stop using app stores. I am saying that, as individuals and as a society, we shouldn't become too dependent on them. Sideloading is a thing.

Hate speech, conspiracy theory, and right-wing extremist babble are all considered "free speech" under the 1A, unfortunately.

That's the price of free speech, you have to allow speech you hate. If your worst enemy doesn't have free speech, then you don't have free speech.

 

[nickdalzell]

I actually wish App Stores didn't exist. People used to actually learn how a PC or phone worked and could do installs just fine before. What changed?

At least with sideloading you aren't forced into updates and aren't stuck with the list of 'approved' apps. I can use any app from any era I want on both Linux and Android. Any version, any time frame.

As for the whole hate speech thing, it wouldn't take too long for it to be used to control what anyone says about anything. How long before a George Carlin video becomes banned for 'hate speech?' or me calling a Deer Hunter another Ted Bundy the same?

The slippery slope isn't a fallacy. It's been demonstrated to happen multiple times over history.

 

[Windroid]

not really surprised. Montana is such a red state.

i mean if Utah can put an age restriction on Pornhub, anything is possible in conservative states.

As an American conservative myself, this saddens me! What happened to American conservatives being for small government? For what it's worth: I, speaking as an American conservative, condemn and disavow the government-enforced censorship of TikTok and porn sites! Those are progressive laws, not conservative.

 

[nickdalzell]

What happened was that people started to assume the Republican party was all about bigotry, white supremacy, and crazy conspiracy theories. Seems nuts like Joe Rogan and Alex Jones spoiled the basket.

Then Covid happened, and anyone who dared question the narrative or the vaccine mandates got labled anti-vax (hey I took my childhood vaxxes!) or someone who spreads 'misinformation.'

The left is what made Jim Crow laws a thing, and created the Ku Klux Klan for those who aren't versed in history. Go far enough left and you end up with the Communist Party. However, go too far right and you get McCarthyism. So best to avoid either extreme. I am what I consider more right of center in that I am conservative and subscribe to the core ideals of the Republican party (freedom of speech, freedom to keep and bear arms, smaller government, etc) but not the nuttier ones associated with it like flat earth theory, carnivore diets, or Kenneth Copeland.

It would appear that Nineteen Eighty Four is no longer a work of fiction.

One quote I often use against folks who criticize me over being conservative is "I might not agree with what you're saying, but I'll defend your right to say it"

 

[Hadron]

I actually wish App Stores didn't exist. People used to actually learn how a PC or phone worked and could do installs just fine before. What changed?

Apple and Google worked out that if everything went through their store they could get a slice out of every app that you bought and every subscription and in-app payment. That's what happened.

The EU's forthcoming Digital Markets Act looks set to force Apple to allow third-party installs within the EU, but my bet is that it will only happen in the EU: why give up a lucrative monopoly, after all? And I'll bet that Apple do everything they can to keep it low-key or to find a way of extracting rent from rival stores or developers using them.

Google have probably made the argument that you can use alternative app stores on Android - which is true, though only enthusiasts know about them. That reminds me somewhat of IE in the 2000s, which became and remained the dominant browser despite its inadequacies just because it came as the pre-installed default on Windows, and defaults are very powerful. As it happens that position was ended when earlier EU legislation forced Microsoft to offer a choice of default browsers when you started a new install of Windows: once it was no longer just presented as a done deal IE rapidly declined (since by this point almost all of the alternatives were better!). I don't know whether there is any chance of this legislation being used in a similar way to make Google make users aware that they don't have to use the Play Store, but it's bound to have occurred to somebody that they could try.

 

[Hadron]

As an American conservative myself, this saddens me! What happened to American conservatives being for small government? For what it's worth: I, speaking as an American conservative, condemn and disavow the government-enforced censorship of TikTok and porn sites! Those are progressive laws, not conservative.

Because the word "conservative" has different meanings. "Social conservatives" and "economic conservatives", for example, may find themselves opposed on many things while both calling themselves "conservative". And I'm not sure I agree with your use of the word "progressive" either: not being American I don't often hear any US debates over porn, but most "progressive" critiques I hear concern either the exploitation of workers in the industry or harm done by kids forming their understanding of sexuality from extreme material on the web when they have no experience to put it into context - concerns that I'd not expect a "conservative" to be indifferent to. But outright censorship of porn itself has always, in my experience, been more likely to come from a "social conservative" position than a "progressive" one - though I'm putting all of the labels in quotes in recognition of the fact that labels are always both reductive and slippery, and may mean different things even to 2 people who apply the same label to themselves.

But since all large political parties, at least in fairly open societies, are coalitions, it's not surprising to find them containing significant factions who have different ideas of what the party they both align themselves with actually stands for.

 

[Windroid]

Because the word "conservative" has different meanings. "Social conservatives" and "economic conservatives", for example, may find themselves opposed on many things while both calling themselves "conservative".

I suppose a lot of "social conservatives" are old-school progressives. The American progressive movement was originally a Christian movement! Now the American progressive movement is into a lot of anti-Christian stuff, meaning there's not room for the old-school progressives. So those old-school progressives are now "conservative" by default.

But the fundamental difference between American conservatism and progressivism remains: Individual freedom and individual responsibility, vs collective control and collective responsibility. The difference now is that there's a progressive civil war, and old-school progressives are allied with conservatives. That's fine by me, I just wish the progressives would stop claiming to be conservative! They embarrass me with their porn bans and all.

 

[Hadron]

Well I'm still curious as to whether the association of "progressive" with "collective control" is a general American understanding or a characterisation by someone who takes a different position, but thanks for the explanation. I really don't think I'd have understood why you labelled porn bans as "progressive policies" without it (and TBH I would be surprised if anyone on this side of the Pond would have done so).

But if someone told me that I had to pick a side between "individual responsibility" and "collective responsibility" my answer would be "why?". I don't think a society can work without both.

 

[Windroid]

But if someone told me that I had to pick a side between "individual responsibility" and "collective responsibility" my answer would be "why?". I don't think a society can work without both.

Ture, but it's a matter of degree and all. When you take collective responsibility so far that you're making alcohol illegal, you've gone too far!

 

[Hadron]

That is true. But equally there are many problems which individual responsibility and individual action alone cannot address. As you say, it's a matter of finding the right balance (which will depend on the issue, and not everyone will agree with).