Most outrageous experience while voting

[ElasticNinja]

Voter ID laws routinely get shut down by Democrats claiming that requiring ID discriminates against minorities/elderly and denies them the right to vote.

Some are on the books anyway, but face legal challenges.

I guess the problem is that so many American's don't have a proper form of ID.

Since that's the case, yes it is a problem. Any criminal conspiracy is a problem. No political party operative is above the law.

Ah yeah I can see that alright.

The US is not the EU. There are no immigration checkpoints or frontiers between US states. Because the US states are not sovereign states, the need for official ID is less in the US than it is in other countries.

Passports are certainly more common in Europe. In fact one needs a passport to go from the British Isles to the mainland, we may as well be French Guinea (obviously the mainland is pretty much passport free). People tend to take holidays with cheap flights a fair bit, and that often takes them away from the mainland too (whether to Cyprus or Turkey or London).

Here in Wisconsin where I live, part of the plan was to shut down DMV offices (the only places where voter ID cards can be obtained) in areas that were likely to vote against the Republican Party. Thankfully the person in charge of the Wisconsin DMV refused to participate in the plot, and the courts knocked down the illegal voter ID laws. Our Republican Governor is under criminal investigation.

That sort of thing is certainly abhorrent. It shocks me that democracy could be so blatantly disrespected.

 

[A.Nonymous]

Citations, please.

Well, there is this guy............

As I said before, making certain hard-to-get photo ID cards mandatory for voting as part of a greater criminal conspiracy by the Republican Party in the US does in fact make them illegitimate.

 

[Speed Daemon]

I guess the problem is that so many American's don't have a proper form of ID.

That's the Republican politicians' talking point. It's not the law of the land however. Here in the US we aren't required to have a "proper form of ID" as a rule. And like I said, a lot of US citizens who don't want to lose more liberty are dead set against national legislation that would make it mandatory for every man woman and child to carry a national ID card at all times.

That sort of thing is certainly abhorrent. It shocks me that democracy could be so blatantly disrespected.

It shocks me too, which is why I spent much of 2012 doing something about it. Thank God the good guys won this time!

No doubt the day will come when every American is forced to carry a national ID card with a RFID transponder (just like the ones in passports) in it, so that Big Brother can see each and every person's precise location at all times. My intention is to push back that time as far as possible!

 

[ElasticNinja]

That's the Republican politicians' talking point. It's not the law of the land however. Here in the US we aren't required to have a "proper form of ID" as a rule. And like I said, a lot of US citizens who don't want to lose more liberty are dead set against national legislation that would make it mandatory for every man woman and child to carry a national ID card at all times.

It shocks me too, which is why I spent much of 2012 doing something about it. Thank God the good guys won this time!

No doubt the day will come when every American is forced to carry a national ID card with a RFID transponder (just like the ones in passports) in it, so that Big Brother can see each and every person's precise location at all times. My intention is to push back that time as far as possible!

I dont think that people should have to carry around an ID all the time, but forms of IDs like passports or driving licences should be more common and accepted. Things like bills should be accepted for voting too.

 

[Bob Maxey]

You see, you are thinking that the Republican Party is like conservative European Christian Democratic Parties, who actually do feel a moral responsibility towards the weaker members of society. The religious backbone of the GOP is unfortunately Evangelicals, who do not care about said weaker folk.

I could vote for a European conservative party. The closest thing to a conservative party in the US is the Democratic Party, which is sad to say.

Most conservatives in this country believe in the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, God, country, a smaller government, gun rights and reduced spending. We/they live the Ten Commandments as best we can.

We argue things like the idea that the Constitution is a "living, breathing document" and we are laughed at by those that have never read the document. We are talked down to by liberals that do not really know anything at all.

We believe in helping people down in their luck but we despise institutionalized welfare. When we want the poor to stay in school or perhaps find a job, we are demonized for hating the poor. No, we do not hate the poor.

We are not evil monsters yet we are portrayed as evil. This country needs a president that believes what most of us believe.

That said, there are republicans that are RINOs and they only want to get elected. Much of what Romney said he wants to do must be done, even though some Americans will suffer. So we avoid making changes and slowly, we start to fail as a country.

 

[Bob Maxey]

Yeah some form of ID should be necessary really. Estonia have a good system with a national ID card which works for most things.

We have two choices: no ID to vote, period. Or some sort of Voter ID. With the former, what happens when you want to vote and you do not need to provide any sort of ID? I can register with several areas and vote twice. We must have some control.

You need check cashing ID, you need ID to pick up registered mail at the P.O for God's sake.

There are issues that SCOTUS has decided and a lack of understanding of the "Poll Tax" questions covered in the founding documents.

Perhaps those that want to vote should either forget it because they cannot ID themselves or get an ID. They have years to get ready and everyone without ID knows someone who can help. To be fair, perhaps some do not and they will not be able to vote in some elections. Do we say no ID because a handful of people cannot get one?

With no ID, you cannot drive a car. We never complain about the need for an driver's license which is minor compared to voting.

My theory is too many people saw Obama as their personal savoir and they wanted to make sure he was elected without caring one blessed bit about politics.

Had there been no Obama, many of those that desperately wanted to vote a black person into office would not care one bit about the process. Not everyone, but certainly a few.

Perhaps we must pay a price for a secure process?

 

[A.Nonymous]

I dont think that people should have to carry around an ID all the time, but forms of IDs like passports or driving licences should be more common and accepted. Things like bills should be accepted for voting too.

Honestly, I don't think there's a huge problem in America with people having no ID. You have to have an ID just to get a job here in almost every case unless you're getting paid under the table or something. The problem is the two demographics that are most likely to not have an ID are the elderly (who are retired and don't work) and the poor (who also tend to not be employed or work transient jobs that don't require ID). Those are also the two demographics that tend to skew Democratic for various reasons. So every time a Republican proposes a voter ID law the Democrats freak out because the demographics most likely to be affected by it are their voter base. So they do everything in their power to shoot said law down.

 

[Gmash]

It's been said many times, but it's still true, there is no voter fraud problem in this country, so what problem are you trying to solve? The problem of poor people voting against you, that's what problem.

 

[Speed Daemon]

With no ID, you cannot drive a car. We never complain about the need for an driver's license which is minor compared to voting.

Driving a car is a privilege; voting is a Constitutionally protected right.

If enough Americans want to have a national ID to use in national elections (such as those for the President), then let them petition Congress to pass a bill to establish a national ID, and spend a lot of money to give every man, woman and child their national ID card before the next election. But let's not let's not pretend that the last minute voter suppression schemes that the Republican Party rolls out exist to do anything legitimate or lawful. Those are plans to throw elections, and are not acceptable in a free society.

 

[A.Nonymous]

Driving a car is a privilege; voting is a Constitutionally protected right.

If enough Americans want to have a national ID to use in national elections (such as those for the President), then let them petition Congress to pass a bill to establish a national ID, and spend a lot of money to give every man, woman and child their national ID card before the next election. But let's not let's not pretend that the last minute voter suppression schemes that the Republican Party rolls out exist to do anything legitimate or lawful. Those are plans to throw elections, and are not acceptable in a free society.

People do want voter ID laws. But you blindly ignore that. The vast majority (up to 75% in some polls I've seen) support voter ID laws. Thirty states have already enacted some form of voter ID law. As has already been pointed out, we have to provide an ID just to pick up mail at the post office. Why not have to provide an ID to vote? There's no need for a national ID. Your state ID Is accepted nationally and as long as states provide said IDs free of charge there should be no issue.

The idea that this is a "last minute suppression scheme" is ridiculous given that these laws were past months and years before the last election. But whatever. Keep running with that.

As I said earlier, the Democrats want to turn this into a huge political issue because it just so happens that their base is the one that is more likely to not have ID. They're not opposed to the bill because it doesn't make sense or because it's not a good idea. They're opposed because it's a threat to their political power. They are putting their political power ahead of what is really a good idea. Sad, but they're not the only party that does so.

 

[D-U-R-X]

Certainly is a tough issue... lets remember to stick to attacking issues, not each other though!

Cheers

 

[Crude]

I have learned that the only one that can keep that chip from falling of your shoulder is you by not putting it up there to begin with.

 

[Speed Daemon]

People do want voter ID laws. ... The vast majority (up to 75% in some polls I've seen) support voter ID laws. Thirty states have already enacted some form of voter ID law.

And P.T. Barnum said "there's a sucker born every minute."

There wouldn't be any problem if all those people had been for enacting voter ID laws all by themselves, and if they had demanded them as a solution for a problem that actually existed. But that's not the case. The people who got suckered by the Republicans are pawns in a criminal conspiracy. And because it is a criminal matter, not just a political one, their cause is not a just one. That's why the illegal laws have been struck down in most jurisdictions.

As has already been pointed out, we have to provide an ID just to pick up mail at the post office. Why not have to provide an ID to vote?

Because they're completely unrelated.

The post office in my home town never asks for photo ID. That's because it's a small town and everyone knows each other by sight. Why should your post office's rules be used instead of mine? Why should your post office be given the special treatment? More to the point, why should your political party get the opportunity to cheat?

There's no need for a national ID.

So why are the Republicans go gung-ho for it?

Your state ID Is accepted nationally and as long as states provide said IDs free of charge there should be no issue.

And because that's not happening is precisely why it's a very big issue.

The idea that this is a "last minute suppression scheme" is ridiculous given that these laws were past months and years before the last election. But whatever. Keep running with that.

It's your claim, so you own it. It's yours to prove, concede, or lose by default.

If you can show that the great majority of the voter ID laws that were enacted during the 2012 Presidential election cycle weren't GOP-sponsored, and really did begin "years before", I'm more than happy to look it over. Anything that was begun within the 24-month election cycle is obviously part of that election. Having prominent Republicans on video saying that the fix was in for Mitt Romney is evidence that can't be ignored.

The League of Women Voters is non-partisan, and not political. (For the record, I belong to no political party either.) Our only interest is in giving every eligible American a fair chance to exercise their Constitutional right to vote. The evidence speaks for itself. The camera doesn't lie. Criminals often blame everyone but the guilty party. It's the evidence that counts, nothing else.

 

[Gmash]

The republicans, especially in Florida that I know of, passed a bunch of laws specifically to stop The League of Women Voters from registering people to vote. It ended up backfiring on them by pissing the people off and making them even more determined to vote, and get out the vote.

 

[A.Nonymous]

And because that's not happening is precisely why it's a very big issue.

If States are not giving out free IDs as they are required to by the law, then they are breaking the law. Completely different issue from whether the law should be there in the first place.

It's your claim, so you own it. It's yours to prove, concede, or lose by default.

Source - Voter ID: State Requirements
2003-2012 Legislative Action

Voter ID has been a hot topic in state legislatures over the past decade. Since 2001, nearly 1,000 bills have been introduced in a total of 46 states. Twenty-four states have passed major legislation during the period 2003-2012 (not including gubernatorial vetoes in five states in 2011), and those bills are summarized in the timeline below.

• 2003: New voter ID laws were passed in Alabama, Colorado, Montana, North Dakota and South Dakota
• 2005: New voter ID laws were passed in Indiana, New Mexico and Washington; Georgia tightened an existing voter ID law to require photo ID
• 2006: New voter ID law passed in Ohio; Georgia passed a law providing for the issuance of voter ID cards at no cost to registered voters who do not have a driver's license or state-issued ID card; Missouri tightened an existing voter ID law to require photo ID
• 2008: New Mexico relaxed an existing voter ID law, and now allows a voter to satisfy the ID requirement by stating his/her name, address as registered, and year of birth
• 2009: New voter ID law passed in Utah
• 2010: New voter ID law passed in Idaho; Oklahoma voters approved a voter ID proposal placed on the ballot by the Legislature
• 2011: New voter ID laws passed in Kansas, Mississippi, Rhode Island and Wisconsin. Alabama, South Carolina, Tennessee and Texas tightened existing voter ID laws to require photo ID (new laws in Texas and South Carolina are on hold pending USDOJ preclearance). Governors in Minnesota, Missouri, Montana, New Hampshire and North Carolina vetoed strict new photo ID laws in 2011.
• 2012: Minnesota, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania and Virginia passed new voter ID laws.

If you can show that the great majority of the voter ID laws that were enacted during the 2012 Presidential election cycle weren't GOP-sponsored, and really did begin "years before", I'm more than happy to look it over. Anything that was begun within the 24-month election cycle is obviously part of that election. Having prominent Republicans on video saying that the fix was in for Mitt Romney is evidence that can't be ignored.

You can see that several of the states that have laws passed them before 2008. The trend toward voter IDs was going on several years before Obama ran for President.

If "the fix was in for Mitt Romney" then it was a pretty lousy fix all things considered.

 

[Speed Daemon]

If States are not giving out free IDs as they are required to by the law, then they are breaking the law. Completely different issue from whether the law should be there in the first place.

Considering that many of our states are currently suffering from their "law" disrespecting all laws that don't suit them, that's cold comfort. Here in Wisconsin there has been no mention whatsoever of free ID cards suitable for the excessively demanding voter ID requirements. Thankfully the unconstitutional law was struck down by what may be the only honest judge in the state.

Source - Voter ID: State Requirements

I give you all due credit for following through. Bravo! It's a bit short on details, but I'll gladly accept it because it proves my point handily.

If "the fix was in for Mitt Romney" then it was a pretty lousy fix all things considered.

Yes, the good guys fought back in time to save our nation, thank God!

The fact remains that the criminal acts of the Republican Party, acts so serious and numerous that they amount to an attempted coup d'etat, cannot simply be ignored. The guilty must pay for their crimes.

 

[A.Nonymous]

Well, if Wisconsin isn't giving out free ID cards, then they are violating the same law that they passed. Their own web site says - "The Wisconsin Department of Transportation is still providing free state ID cards." If that's not happening then they are flat out lying to the public and violating their own law. That's a completely separate issue though.

Source - Voter Photo ID Law Information | Government Accountability Board

To be fair, I don't know the ins and outs of the Wisconsin voter ID law. It is currently tied up in legal fight and not being enforced pending legal action. Other voter ID laws have been found to be constitutional.

The political rhetoric I'm not even going to address. I've heard it before from both sides.

 

[Speed Daemon]

Well, if Wisconsin isn't giving out free ID cards, then they are violating the same law that they passed.

That is correct. All three branches of Wisconsin government have racked up a laundry list of criminal offenses. I'm not exaggerating in the least. These are actual crimes, not mere political posturing. We have a state Senate that pretends to pass bills that are void because of several broken laws. A Governor who orders the bogus "laws" to be enacted without the State's Attorney signing off (he's under criminal investigation for other things too). And one of our Supreme Court justices strangled another judge in a fit of rage. Because they're all part of the same criminal conspiracy, they have gotten away with breaking the law, over and over.

They make Chicago politicians look like angels.

To be fair, I don't know the ins and outs of the Wisconsin voter ID law. It is currently tied up in legal fight and not being enforced pending legal action. Other voter ID laws have been found to be constitutional.

Well I've lived through it. As I mentioned before, the Governor simply ordered all the DMV offices in non-Republican areas closed. It's only due to a handful of officials who are still honest and refuse to be a part of the criminal activity that the crooks didn't succeed in stealing the election.

The political rhetoric I'm not even going to address. I've heard it before from both sides.

What political rhetoric? Your posts contain a lot, so you need to be specific. Why do you now not want to talk about it?

What "both sides"? This is only one political party's actions. What about the documented criminal activity? That can't be ignored!

 

[A.Nonymous]

Let me make sure I understand you? You are saying a law is bad because people are disobeying it?

 

[JnEricsonx]

Back in 2008, an old, white, southern relative of mine exclaimed "I never thought I'd ever vote for a n*****, but I just did!"

Institutionalized racism dies hard, and the fact that a certain political party got so much traction out of practicing racism this election year is proof positive that electing our nation's first black President hasn't magically changed the hearts or minds of a lot of people.

God, to have a youtube clip of what that person said.....I'd bloody well die laughing.

 

[Speed Daemon]

Let me make sure I understand you? You are saying a law is bad because people are disobeying it?

No...

It looks like our language barrier is too big to bridge. Let's drop it.

 

[Speed Daemon]

God, to have a youtube clip of what that person said.....I'd bloody well die laughing.

That would be great! He's an ideal character to say it too. A fat old man wearing overalls, who has an "olde tyme" wooden barrel of peanuts next to his rocking chair, using the "n word" in his southern drawl...

 

[A.Nonymous]

Well, I've seen multiple articles claiming the governor did try to shut down all the DMV offices in non-Republican areas, but not a single shred of proof to back it up. The Democracts claim it's true. The Republicans say they were shutting down the least busiest DMVs for budget reasons. Again, no facts to back up either side. Still nothing to indicate the voter id law is right or wrong.

It was enacted here in my home state with very little fanfare and had no effect on the election that anyone has been able to point to.

 

[Speed Daemon]

Hmmm...having something widely reported by multiple press agencies is among the strongest forms of proof there are. At least that's how it woks in the real world where truths really do happen, and reality can't be adjusted to suit a narrative.

 

[A.Nonymous]

Hmmm...having something widely reported by multiple press agencies is among the strongest forms of proof there are. At least that's how it woks in the real world where truths really do happen, and reality can't be adjusted to suit a narrative.

I could not disagree on this more strongly. Especially not in a world where the press is quite fond of simply cutting and pasting and re-reporting something that has already been reported. One Democrat claims that there are political reasons behind something and ten media outlets report it as fact without even bothering to verify if that's true or not. Then blog sites pick up those media reports and run with them as fact. Again, no one bothers to verify if it's true or not.