ElasticNinja
Android Expert
Yes but not in the way Jews were for such long time
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Muslims sue for right to religious practise at work
- Thread starter Crude
- Start date
Yes but not in the way Jews were for such long time
SamsungVibrant
Android Expert
Oh really? Please do explain.
One of the largest Genocides of our time was against Christians. You think burning people in ovens started with the holocaust? Slashing pregnant mothers stomachs started with the holocaust? There was a massive Genocide of Christians prior to the holocaust, which almost completely killed off an entire group of people.
Please explain the difference.
Familyguy1
Android Enthusiast
What? The Armenian Genocide?
What are you talking about exactly, there is not one specific event. If you know the social history of 1000 CE to 1900 CE, Jews have been one of the most persecuted cultures.
But so have a lot. Does this give them a right to claim discrimination? Hell No, they are like everyone else.
SamsungVibrant
Android Expert
Yes, exactly, the Armenian Genocide. The Armenian people were almost entirely killed off, because they were Christian, actually one of the first Christian people.
The Armenian Genocide happened before the Jewish Holocaust, and Hitler has been quoted himself as saying he got most of his ideas from the Armenian Genocide. That Genocide didn't kill a few thousand, but almost 1.5 million Armenians, they were essentially entirely almost killed off, taken off the face of the planet. Very few survived.
My point was, there is injustice against many groups of people, there is also many times a double standard, especially when it comes to the Jewish religion. I don't care if you are Muslim, Jewish, or Christian, you shouldn't get extra time from work to pray, that's all it comes down to.
There's one thing that you are missing here. These lawsuits only work if you are accommodating Christian religious holidays, like Christmas, or Easter... As far as I know, most companies accommodate the Christian holiday of Christmas. So, therefore they would be required to accommodate the Jewish holidays around the same time.
lol, look at the birdy. it's funny that a thread about a "frivolous" law suit got completely derailed so easily by a simple, irrelevant comment from savoxis.
the link is throwing me a 404, but based solely what i can gather from the on topic comments my opinion is this.
no religion should have carte blanche "rights" to "time off" or extra breaks. if however the company is run by adherents to a particular religion, they have every right to observe their major holidays/traditions. in other words, if the company is run/owned by muslims, they have the right to impliment prayer breaks, observe muslim holidays, etc. etc. same goes for christian, jew, hindu, or whatever.
the link is throwing me a 404, but based solely what i can gather from the on topic comments my opinion is this.
no religion should have carte blanche "rights" to "time off" or extra breaks. if however the company is run by adherents to a particular religion, they have every right to observe their major holidays/traditions. in other words, if the company is run/owned by muslims, they have the right to impliment prayer breaks, observe muslim holidays, etc. etc. same goes for christian, jew, hindu, or whatever.
Only if they observe those Christian holidays specifically for religious beliefs. I would suggest that the vast majority of businesses close at Christmas, not for religious reasons, but through cultural habit, and/or where the holidays are given by statute; and accident of historical Christian societies.
Personally I would recognise no religious holidays, spread the public holidays throughout the year more evenly, and allow workers the right to take their annual leave for any religious holidays they desire(all due notice to be given etc.)
As long as it is a Federal Holiday, then companies can get away with it, for the most part.
However, things like Easter... that's a different story. It's not a Federal holiday. Companies have discretion. It's a religious holiday.
As long as I can take Christmas Eve and Christmas off... I'm fine with that plan.
ElasticNinja
Android Expert
Yeah Easter holidays are stupid
My school terms are all messed up due to it
My school terms are all messed up due to it
kobel1up
Android Enthusiast
I worked at a warehouse in Columbus and around lots of Muslims. I didn't like the fact that they could run off and pray, and I had to pick up their work. I was told by my supervisor to finish loading this guys truck while he was praying. So I jumped on a clamp truck, much like a fork lift just no forks and big plates that spread wide to clamp stuff. I grabbed about 20 microwaves to run in the trailer, on the way in at full speed cause I was 30 min to go before I went home. I was looking around my load and thought I saw someone in the trailer. I got off the truck and it was that idiot in there praying. I could have squished him. I grabbed him and threw him out of the trailer. Prayer needs to be at break time and home not during work hours.
And yet there are videos on youtube of people burning Bibles every day that are NEVER TAKEN DOWN.. but a video of someone burning a Quran is taken down within minutes.
On topic, break time is personal time. Pray then.
Should a company be able to discriminate? Abso-frickin-lutely! Every time you interview you are discriminating based on personality, physical appearance (hieght, weight, presentation and some times... gasp.... color), intelect, verbal skills and much more. This is why you interview. Otherwise you would just have folks send ina resume with a name on it.... but that will not cut it. Your looking to hire the person that fits within your organization the best and that will most help your company reach it's goals. So yes, discriminating against the ugly, the fat, the stupid, the dirty, the uneducated and sometimes the skin color does and will always happen. If you owned a company you would do it as well!
Lets say you have 2 intelectually equal candidates come into your business and you are a middle aged black man that owns the business.
One is a 5 foot tall 30-something white women with acne scars in her facial skin, her hair is very plain and she wears no makeup. You notice on her neck hangs a pagan emblem as a charm, it is of pure 18K gold you suspect because the glow of the gold is of a very dark yellow/gold. Expensive charm no doubt! She is slightly overweight as many a typical American is and her car you saw you park out front looked like it had not seen a soapy sponge in months.
Next is the 30 6'3" thirty-something black man. He is of athletic build and during the interview made a reference to your local NFL team that sparked a short banter over who should make it to the Super Bowl this year. His dress clothes were all designer labels and his appearance was one of perfection. He wears a shirt and tie, but through the cream colored and fitted shirt you notice what might be a tatto slightly printing through the fine and expensive material, so you ask of the marking. He smiles and tells you that when his father passed away, he had a cross placed over his heart with the names of his grandparents and his father inside the cross so that each morning while getting ready to start his day, he will see in the mirror his beloved family members and take just a moment to remember tham and always keep them close to his heart. He arrived in front of your business in a freshly detailed automobile that he appears to take fine care of. Everything about him reminded you of a typical bilboard advertisement photo or a GQ magazine photo.
How do YOU make your choice? They both have very similar education and work experiance... but one gets the job and one keeps handing out resume's.... who will you hire? Who will represent you as an employee? Make your choice and tell me why and how?
(Hint, you have to descriminate based on at least SOMETHING to make the choice....no way around it!)
Lets say you have 2 intelectually equal candidates come into your business and you are a middle aged black man that owns the business.
One is a 5 foot tall 30-something white women with acne scars in her facial skin, her hair is very plain and she wears no makeup. You notice on her neck hangs a pagan emblem as a charm, it is of pure 18K gold you suspect because the glow of the gold is of a very dark yellow/gold. Expensive charm no doubt! She is slightly overweight as many a typical American is and her car you saw you park out front looked like it had not seen a soapy sponge in months.
Next is the 30 6'3" thirty-something black man. He is of athletic build and during the interview made a reference to your local NFL team that sparked a short banter over who should make it to the Super Bowl this year. His dress clothes were all designer labels and his appearance was one of perfection. He wears a shirt and tie, but through the cream colored and fitted shirt you notice what might be a tatto slightly printing through the fine and expensive material, so you ask of the marking. He smiles and tells you that when his father passed away, he had a cross placed over his heart with the names of his grandparents and his father inside the cross so that each morning while getting ready to start his day, he will see in the mirror his beloved family members and take just a moment to remember tham and always keep them close to his heart. He arrived in front of your business in a freshly detailed automobile that he appears to take fine care of. Everything about him reminded you of a typical bilboard advertisement photo or a GQ magazine photo.
How do YOU make your choice? They both have very similar education and work experiance... but one gets the job and one keeps handing out resume's.... who will you hire? Who will represent you as an employee? Make your choice and tell me why and how?
(Hint, you have to descriminate based on at least SOMETHING to make the choice....no way around it!)
SamsungVibrant
Android Expert
I would probably higher the woman over your GQ model. I am pretty good at reading people, and I would prefer a hard working humble person over a suave slick talker.
infil
Well-Known Member
Appearance is everything, and appearance is nothing. I interview people for a living and have to hire and fire on too much of a regular basis.
My decisions to hire people are based strictly on their experience listed on their resume, as well as their ability to discuss automotive repair situations competently. If i'm looking for an A level technician, am i going to hire the scruffy looking girl who can list 10 possible causes w/o missing a beat, or the clean cut kid who has to think about it for 20 minutes.
I dont give a damn what someone looks like. I care about their ability to do their job, provide the best possible service to the customer in the least amount of time possible without having that car come back because someone cut a corner or is just flat out in over their heads.
Qualifications and ability to get the job done efficiently is exponentially more important that appearance.
But as to the topic at hand....I dont think muslims ahve any more right or less right to practice their religion at work than anyone else does. I dont believe they should be given special accommodations, however I dont think anyone else has the right to prevent them from practicing their religion unless it is interfering with their performance of their duties.
I worked for a company that is a fortune 100 and the managers and above were all recognized as being primarily male, 6'2" and above, thin, attractive, dressed to kill and very charasmatic. It was also admitted that these folks were hired to be the face of the company to the public and the customer. They were hired partly because they were "pretty". Many companies have this filter applied. There is no way to hire without some filter, be it looks, religion, skin color, what school they came from.... there are always certian things that sway your opinion. Were I work right now, if you did not come from PIT or MIT... you may as well not apply. Sorry, you'r not getting the job with a diploma from Yale.