Nandroid Backup - Apps2SD (?)

[apollomaker]

Good Morning all --- another question surfaced as I am considering partitioning of my SD card for use with Fresh 2.0d and using the benfits of Apps2SD.

Once up and running, does the Nandroid backup work on this configuration? Or must you keep your files in the Hero to get a functional backup? Now using the 1.6.2 version of RA.

I would certainly not want to sacrifice my ability to make periodic Nandriod backups of my phone.

What say gents? Thanks as always -- Bob --

 

[ToxicToastKatz]

Not to hijack the thread, but I am also considering doing this today and had a question about the procedure:

Once you move all of your SD contents to your computer, partition the SD card, move the contents back to the SD card and reboot, do you need to reflash Fresh 2.0d?

Also, if I were to use AP2SD and decide I didn't want to anymore, could I reformat the card and use an old Nandroid Backup file to get all my settings back (one that was backed up w/o AP2SD in play) or would that not work?

I want to try and avoid setting up the phone again, as i JUST got it to where I want it.

 

[apollomaker]

http://androidforums.com/all-things-root-sprint-hero/77551-apps2sd-function-questions.html

Toxic:

I basically asked the same thing in this thread from yesterday. Have a look -- should answer your questions!!!!

I do not know about the two-way trip scenario -- I believe that once Apps2SD moves your files, you are there for good.

Hope this helps.

 

[ToxicToastKatz]

http://androidforums.com/all-things-root-sprint-hero/77551-apps2sd-function-questions.html

Toxic:

I basically asked the same thing in this thread from yesterday. Have a look -- should answer your questions!!!!

I do not know about the two-way trip scenario -- I believe that once Apps2SD moves your files, you are there for good.

Hope this helps.

Ok, I'm trying to work out the logic in my head as to how this would work.

If I were to partition and utilize the apps2sd as it's built into Fresh 2.0d, and then later decide I didn't want to utilize it anymore, I would:

1. Recopy the contents of my SD card to my computer.
2. Boot into Recovery and repartition/reformat my SD card to regular FAT32.
3. Copy all of my contents back onto my SD card from my computer.
4. Flash the lastest Nandroid backup to restore everything.....however.....

here is what I'm struggling with, how would I even be able to boot into Recovery if I'm using apps2sd and then take it away, wouldn't the phone not boot up because all of the necessary files it's looking for to boot up have been eliminated by reformatting the sd card to standard FAT32?

In other words, after the card is reformatted in step 2, how would one access it to transfer the files back from the computer if you can't "Mount" the card because the phone can't boot up?

Am I being clear? I really want to do this, but I just don't want to screw the pooch, as it should be understood.

 

[Fenga Papit]

If you only put your Market apps on your partitioned SD card for use with apps2sd, then remove them to your computer while you reformat the SD card at some future point, I don't see why your phone would not reboot. All of your OS and system files are still on your phone. Or maybe I misunderstood you.

@Apollomaker: I am confused as to why there would be a need to do a nandroid backup before partitioning your SD card. If you use the app Titanium Backup to backup all of your market apps plus your system files, then you have everything you need, or so it seems to me. No need to reflash the ROM, and if anything goes wrong you have everything backed up with Titanium Backup. Of course, since TB will backup your files to your SD card you will need to move this to your computer too while partitioning your SD card.

 

[ToxicToastKatz]

If you only put your Market apps on your partitioned SD card for use with apps2sd, then remove them to your computer while you reformat the SD card at some future point, I don't see why your phone would not reboot. All of your OS and system files are still on your phone. Or maybe I misunderstood you.

@Apollomaker: I am confused as to why there would be a need to do a nandroid backup before partitioning your SD card. If you use the app Titanium Backup to backup all of your market apps plus your system files, then you have everything you need, or so it seems to me. No need to reflash the ROM, and if anything goes wrong you have everything backed up with Titanium Backup. Of course, since TB will backup your files to your SD card you will need to move this to your computer too while partitioning your SD card.

It is my understanding, however, that all files are automatically moved to the SD card, regardless if it's a Market app or a system file.

If that's not the case, and it is just Market apps, that would be wonderful, but I was under the impression that it moved everything (including Dalvik cache.....not really sure what that is, but I know it's important).

Am I wrong?

 

[Fenga Papit]

It is my understanding, however, that all files are automatically moved to the SD card, regardless if it's a Market app or a system file.

If that's not the case, and it is just Market apps, that would be wonderful, but I was under the impression that it moved everything (including Dalvik cache.....not really sure what that is, but I know it's important).

Am I wrong?

I was warned by another member to not move my dalvik cache (don't know what it is either) to my SD card, so I don't think it is automatic. As for system files, if any, that are moved to the SD card automatically, I have no idea. Sorry!

 

[mysticmead]

ok... here's a few answers to some of the questions...

nandroid backups do NOT backup the contents of the SD card.

To revert back from using Apps2sd.. copy the FAT partition to your PC. in recovery, partition the card to only have 1 FAT partition. mount card in recovery, copy the ROM back to the SD card as well as a nandroid you want to restore.. wipe data and davlik... flash ROM... then after a good reboot, restore backup. that should get you back to before apps2sd.

apps2sd from what I understand moves everything from system/apps and system/apps-private to the sd card..

since Android is built off of Linux, when it moves teh files, it creates a symlink to the program. that way when the OS calls the data, it hits the symlink and is directed to the real location of the data. Symlinks have a unique identifier, if you pull the card of course the symlink points to a spot that isn't there. booting without the card cause it to try and create a symlink, but can't since it's not there.. this results in force closes. replacing the SD card and rebooting "SHOULD" recreate the Symlinks, however there's a chance (albeit small) it might not.

if you do decide to use apps2sd, keep in mind that your SD card has a limited number of read/write cycles...at some point it will fail. hopefully that'll be LONG after you have upgraded to a new phone.. when buying a new SD card, buy only top quality cards. and do NOT buy from eBay. there are a lot of fakes floating around that are factory rejects.. Sandisc is one of the best cards... Kingston uses factory rejects...

 

[mysticmead]

ok... here's a few answers to some of the questions...

nandroid backups do NOT backup the contents of the SD card.

To revert back from using Apps2sd.. copy the FAT partition to your PC. in recovery, partition the card to only have 1 FAT partition. mount card in recovery, copy the ROM back to the SD card as well as a nandroid you want to restore.. wipe data and davlik... flash ROM... then after a good reboot, restore backup. that should get you back to before apps2sd.

apps2sd from what I understand moves everything from system/apps and system/apps-private to the sd card..

since Android is built off of Linux, when it moves teh files, it creates a symlink to the program. that way when the OS calls the data, it hits the symlink and is directed to the real location of the data. Symlinks have a unique identifier, if you pull the card of course the symlink points to a spot that isn't there. booting without the card cause it to try and create a symlink, but can't since it's not there.. this results in force closes. replacing the SD card and rebooting "SHOULD" recreate the Symlinks, however there's a chance (albeit small) it might not.

if you do decide to use apps2sd, keep in mind that your SD card has a limited number of read/write cycles...at some point it will fail. hopefully that'll be LONG after you have upgraded to a new phone.. when buying a new SD card, buy only top quality cards. and do NOT buy from eBay. there are a lot of fakes floating around that are factory rejects.. Sandisc is one of the best cards... Kingston uses factory rejects...

 

[ToxicToastKatz]

ok... here's a few answers to some of the questions...

nandroid backups do NOT backup the contents of the SD card.

To revert back from using Apps2sd.. copy the FAT partition to your PC. in recovery, partition the card to only have 1 FAT partition. mount card in recovery, copy the ROM back to the SD card as well as a nandroid you want to restore.. wipe data and davlik... flash ROM... then after a good reboot, restore backup. that should get you back to before apps2sd.

apps2sd from what I understand moves everything from system/apps and system/apps-private to the sd card..

since Android is built off of Linux, when it moves teh files, it creates a symlink to the program. that way when the OS calls the data, it hits the symlink and is directed to the real location of the data. Symlinks have a unique identifier, if you pull the card of course the symlink points to a spot that isn't there. booting without the card cause it to try and create a symlink, but can't since it's not there.. this results in force closes. replacing the SD card and rebooting "SHOULD" recreate the Symlinks, however there's a chance (albeit small) it might not.

if you do decide to use apps2sd, keep in mind that your SD card has a limited number of read/write cycles...at some point it will fail. hopefully that'll be LONG after you have upgraded to a new phone.. when buying a new SD card, buy only top quality cards. and do NOT buy from eBay. there are a lot of fakes floating around that are factory rejects.. Sandisc is one of the best cards... Kingston uses factory rejects...

Even though you duplicate posted....I thanked both of them!!

That was about as clear as it can be!! I truly appreciate the help.

I'm definitely interested in trying it (even though I don't have a Class 4 or 6 card) but wanted to make sure I can go back if something gets screwy or runs too choppy/slow. I am using an 8GB Sandisk card, so hopefully it holds up and doesn't corrupt.

I just wasn't sure if after partitioning, a menu or option appeared that allowed you to dictate what gets moved over to the SD card or not, but it looks like it is just the apps.

If I were to do it and go backwards, would I have to reinstall all apps, or would they all be there from the Nandroid restore (also would they appear in the Market as installed)? ...this is the last question...i swear

 

[apollomaker]

Hiya Guys --- well, as if there still is not enough mystery about the absolute workings of apps2sd, here is another twist to consider and ponder.

In retrospect, my phone is on Fresh 2.0d, and I have gone through the "normal" partitioning of my SD card and subsequent moving of "things" over to the card via RA 1.6.2..

Right after I rebooted, I did see that about 7 MB of "stuff" was moved. I went through a couple of the normal tests to see if the right files (test of the presence of the data files) were indeed on the SD card and everything checked out at least according to what others have said says that apps2sd is functional.

Now, the twist. I have noticed after loading a few market apps, that my available RAM number on the phone is dropping!!! Yes, it is decreasing. Theoretically, this should not be happening if both caches (data and Dalvik) were moved over to the SD card along with apps. Hmmmm.

The test I ran was only for the presence of the data file (/system/sd/data) on the SD card. At least that is what I think (maybe no correct?).
So what might be happening that is consuming RAM on the phone, as opposed to the SD card?? Any feelings or knowledge on this one????

My phone is working great -- no complaints, just this mystery that something is eating RAM on the phone and the whole idea of using the SD card was to stop that from happening ---

What say fellow apps2sd users?? Thanks --- Bob ---

EDIT: Following my post, I did some experiments. I checked a couple of the apps I loaded and found one that is about 240KB in size. I checked the available RAM on the phone, then removed the app. The available RAM increased by about half of the app size. This implies that part of the app was either on the SD card or was discarded upon removing the app. But part of the app was placed on the phone, in lieu of the SD card. Another bit of evidence!! Whatever the facts, it is clear that part of the applications and their data are NOT going to the SD card as we had anticipated.

After some more reading, trying to sort out the pros and cons of apps2sd, here is some reading:

http://www.forceclose.com/questions/718/how-do-i-know-if-apps2sd-is-working

Tends to confirm what I was seeing above. I am using a Class 4 card, and it does slow down under apps2sd in demanding apps.

 

[ToxicToastKatz]

Hiya Guys --- well, as if there still is not enough mystery about the absolute workings of apps2sd, here is another twist to consider and ponder.

In retrospect, my phone is on Fresh 2.0d, and I have gone through the "normal" partitioning of my SD card and subsequent moving of "things" over to the card via RA 1.6.2..

Right after I rebooted, I did see that about 7 MB of "stuff" was moved. I went through a couple of the normal tests to see if the right files (test of the presence of the data files) were indeed on the SD card and everything checked out at least according to what others have said says that apps2sd is functional.

Now, the twist. I have noticed after loading a few market apps, that my available RAM number on the phone is dropping!!! Yes, it is decreasing. Theoretically, this should not be happening if both caches (data and Dalvik) were moved over to the SD card along with apps. Hmmmm.

The test I ran was only for the presence of the data file (/system/sd/data) on the SD card. At least that is what I think (maybe no correct?).
So what might be happening that is consuming RAM on the phone, as opposed to the SD card?? Any feelings or knowledge on this one????

My phone is working great -- no complaints, just this mystery that something is eating RAM on the phone and the whole idea of using the SD card was to stop that from happening ---

What say fellow apps2sd users?? Thanks --- Bob ---

EDIT: Following my post, I did some experiments. I checked a couple of the apps I loaded and found one that is about 240KB in size. I checked the available RAM on the phone, then removed the app. The available RAM increased by about half of the app size. This implies that part of the app was either on the SD card or was discarded upon removing the app. But part of the app was placed on the phone, in lieu of the SD card. Another bit of evidence!! Whatever the facts, it is clear that part of the applications and their data are NOT going to the SD card as we had anticipated.

After some more reading, trying to sort out the pros and cons of apps2sd, here is some reading:

how do i know if apps2sd is working? - Force Close

Tends to confirm what I was seeing above. I am using a Class 4 card, and it does slow down under apps2sd in demanding apps.

Hey apollo:

Can you give examples of what apps are slowing down? For instance, does Google Navigation work flawlessly off the sd card?

I really want to do this to avoid low space warnings, however, having apps that don't work as they should really defeats the purpose of having them.

 

[apollomaker]

Hey apollo:

Can you give examples of what apps are slowing down? For instance, does Google Navigation work flawlessly off the sd card?

I really want to do this to avoid low space warnings, however, having apps that don't work as they should really defeats the purpose of having them.

Good Morning --- I see slow down mainly in video-oriented apps. As compared to install without apps2sd I get jerky video play on small video clips. Some jerking on YouTube vids now and then too. I did not try the navigation apps. Wish I could comment there, but I have already switched it out with a new install of Fresh 2.0d. If I had a Class 6 (or faster) SD card, I might have stayed with it.

It was also good news in a way, that only part of the application gets shifted over to the SD card -- if all had gone over, it would have been a real horse race to get the app, data and cache info all back and forth between the SD card. It is probably worth a try for you using the navigation apps to try a Class 6 SD and see what happens. It may work well for you.

Will keep ya'll posted on any progress here. Cheers ---