Need advice on selecting first phone in seven years.

[Moleculor]

I currently own a i-mate... actually, screw it. Who cares what I currently own? All you need to know is I bought it used, it's running Windows Mobile 2003, was probably made in 2004, and is a piece.

of.

crap.

At least by today's standards. I mean, if it loses power, it also loses every bit of data inside it. Srsly! (Stupid RAM based technology. :|)

Anyhow, I'm looking to upgrade to an Android phone. I have no preference on manufacturer, and probably want a GSM phone, despite the technology being less stellar than CDMA, simply because I hold a personal grudge (on a matter of principle regarding warrantless wiretapping) with most CDMA-based companies here in the States. (And AT&T.)

I currently live in a market that is still (apparently) running 2G speeds. I'm pretty sure there's no workaround for that, so the data capabilities for the phone probably aren't as important. However, I DO like bells and whistles. Bells and whistles are nice. In fact, despite the lack of decent data-connectivity here in the area, I would like to be able to have fancy apps 'n stuff on the phone via my computer.

I'm also very *very* anti-contract, and will almost certainly want to buy the phone unlocked, if it's not trivial to unlock a phone I buy through a carrier (T-Mobile).

A few questions:

Any suggestions, to start off?

How hard is it to unlock an Android GSM phone? Are they even locked, being an open-source platform?

What percentage of popular apps currently support multi-touch? I realize it's probably not vital (correct me if I'm wrong) on any app, but I don't want to miss out on features, y'know?

How friendly is the Android with Windows 7? Currently my phone uses Windows 7's Mobile Sync Center, and it too is a piece of crap. It's lost backups I've made of my current phone. Just... up and POOF, gone. Or worse, backups that mysteriously become corrupted. (Very frustrating for a phone that loses its data when it loses power, and has a failing battery.) Does Android use its own specific software, or does it use Microsoft's tech for PC synchronization?

How much does manufacturer matter when updating to new versions of Android's OS? I'm the kind of guy that likes to update his graphics card drivers the day they come out, so I'd rather not wait on a manufacturer to put their personal spin on the AndroidOS before I can upgrade.

I'm sure I'll think of more questions later.

 

[blindman96]

I suggest the huawei ideos x5, big screen, flash, 5mp camera, really good phone I have it, I got it for about $350 unlocked w/ 8gb included! it's also prepaid but you can get it on contract if you want. (I got it prepaid)
I live in Australia though but the ideos x5 is about to be released to the rest of the world very soon. (don't know how soon but soon)

the x5 has multi touch support and alot of apps in the market use multi touch.

if a device is locked or not depends on the store and the carrier, say if you were going to get a phone from t mobile it would be locked to t mobile.
you can unlock it but there is normally a big fee ($80 or so) some stores sell phones locked and some sell them unlocked you'll just have to check online or something before you walk in the store to save you time.
NOTE: it doesn't matter that android is open source, if theres money to be made the carriers and stores will use it to their advantage. since unlocking doesn't involve the OS it'self it uses the sim then they aren't actually doing anything wrong.

most phones have their own sync software like htc, motorola and the hi suite for the ideos x5, if it doesn't come with the phone it's normally at the manufacturers website. (samsung.com/motorola.com, etc)

what happens with android updates is that the manufacturer will decide if they want to upgrade it, you'll normally be able to find out if your phone is going to be upgradeable if you google it. when the manufacturer pushes out the updates it's up to the carrier to send them to you. so IMO it's best to get a phone with an unmodified version of android so it can be pushed out with no hassle or delays if it's going to be upgradable.

I hope I helped!

 

[Moleculor]

Wait, I'm confused: If the "locked" state of the phone is determined by the SIM card, then.... uh... what does "locked" mean? That sounds like I could just pull the SIM card out, put someone else's in, and it'd be "locked" to their service instead. That doesn't match what I've heard at all.

How do I tell whether the OS on the phone is unmodified? Couldn't I just overwrite modified versions with the unmodified one?

 

[Guamguy]

Locked means only the carrier's SIM can be used on the phone. Unlocked means any SIM can be used on the phone.

 

[Moleculor]

So blindman96 is incorrect then, and I understand this correctly. So can I unlock the phone easily or no? If I have root access to the phone's OS, and it's not based on the physical component of the SIM card, one would think it'd be trivial, yes?

 

[Moleculor]

Bump. That model isn't available here, and I'm still not sure on half my questions.

 

[dylo22]

How hard is it to unlock an Android GSM phone? Are they even locked, being an open-source platform?

No it's not hard to unlock. All you have to do is enter in a special code. Usually you can obtain the code from a carrier (T-mobile) after a certain amount of time.

What percentage of popular apps currently support multi-touch? I realize it's probably not vital (correct me if I'm wrong) on any app, but I don't want to miss out on features, y'know?

Android OS supports multi-touch. Apps that requires multitouch, such as games, google maps etc will implement it. So you won't be missing out on any features as long as the OS supports it.

I don't know what the percentage of apps that implements multi-touch.

How friendly is the Android with Windows 7? Currently my phone uses Windows 7's Mobile Sync Center, and it too is a piece of crap. It's lost backups I've made of my current phone. Just... up and POOF, gone. Or worse, backups that mysteriously become corrupted. (Very frustrating for a phone that loses its data when it loses power, and has a failing battery.) Does Android use its own specific software, or does it use Microsoft's tech for PC synchronization?

Android syncs it's contacts and calendar with your gmail account. This is all done automatically and seamlessly. No need to hook it up with a computer. If you want to sync your contacts and calendar to a pc with outlook. You have to purchase third party apps from app store. Since I don't sync with my comp, I can't comment on which apps are good or bad.

How much does manufacturer matter when updating to new versions of Android's OS? I'm the kind of guy that likes to update his graphics card drivers the day they come out, so I'd rather not wait on a manufacturer to put their personal spin on the AndroidOS before I can upgrade.

Pretty much all manufacturers put their own overlays on top of android. The only phones that doesn't have manufacturers tweaks are the Nexus S, Nexus One and Droid 1.

 

[Belmont]

Nexus S is the phone you want.

 

[Sarius24]

Samsung Galaxy S with a protection plan litterally break your phone when SII comes out and get a new one hahaha

 

[lunatic59]

Let me add my $.02 (with 2-year contract extension, otherwise my comments cost $399.95)

Both Blindman and Guamguy are correct with some explanation. There are two ways a phone is locked. What I beleive you are referring to is carrier locked, where the phone will only work with the subsidizing carrier's sim card. Once the contract is up, the carrier shold be able to provide you with an unlock code to allow the phone to work with any carrier's sim. There are ways to get that unlock code, but could be a violation of the TOS agreement with the carrier. If you buy the phone independent of a carrier, this is not relevant.

The second, less common discussion about locking (except, maybe on this forum) is the locked bootloader. Hardware manufacturers can lock the bootloader making it more difficult to root and flash custom ROM's. This may be important to you because every handset manufacturer adds their own modifications to the Android UI, which you may want to remove if you like the hardware but not the interface. Some people like these UI enhancements, some don't. You'll have to check these out for yourself. The biggies will be HTC's Sense UI, Motorola's Blur, Samsung TouchWiz ... the rest I can't recall.

The only exceptions are the "developer" phones Like the Nexus 1, Nexus S and the G1 that have pure, unadulterated Android. They also are the first to get the OS updates because they come straight from Google without carrier or manufacturer intervention.

One other consideration is the hardware itself. Since you mentioned T-Mobile, you should know that there may be some incompatibilities in 3G (and 4G) frequencies. While most GSM phones will give you voice and data on most GSM networks, T-mobile uses the 1700 MHz band for their 3G service while AT&T uses the 1900 MHz band. If you get a phone with incompatible 3G radios, you will be limited to 2G speeds.

 

[allambition]

As for manufacturers the tops right now are probably HTC,Motorola, and Samsung. Android phones can usually be unlocked without problems. The manufacturer does matter a bit, I have a Captivate and a lot of people were complaining about slow updates from Samsung. The Motorola Atrix 4g seems like one of the good, more recent phones - I would check that out. The Thunderbolt has had some complaints - battery life amongst the biggest gripes. Good luck in your quest, I hope you find a good phone that works for you.

 

[Moleculor]

Both Blindman and Guamguy are correct with some explanation. There are two ways a phone is locked. What I beleive you are referring to is carrier locked, where the phone will only work with the subsidizing carrier's sim card. Once the contract is up, the carrier shold be able to provide you with an unlock code to allow the phone to work with any carrier's sim. There are ways to get that unlock code, but could be a violation of the TOS agreement with the carrier. If you buy the phone independent of a carrier, this is not relevant.

Yeah, I've never really understood this process too well. How are there companies unrelated to my carrier that somehow magically know the unlock code to a phone? Is it based on an algorithm? If so, how is that algorithm not publicly known (thus making all unlock codes free)?

The second, less common discussion about locking (except, maybe on this forum) is the locked bootloader. Hardware manufacturers can lock the bootloader making it more difficult to root and flash custom ROM's. This may be important to you because every handset manufacturer adds their own modifications to the Android UI, which you may want to remove if you like the hardware but not the interface. Some people like these UI enhancements, some don't. You'll have to check these out for yourself. The biggies will be HTC's Sense UI, Motorola's Blur, Samsung TouchWiz ... the rest I can't recall.

Oh. I thought that was generally known as "unrooted" or "rooted", but "locked" makes some sense too, I s'pose.

If I get a, say, Samsung (or whomever) phone, can I remove their custom OS and put the basic Google-provided version of Android on there without hurting anything, and if so, can I put the manufacturer-provided version back on at any point I want to? Essentially, upgrading to the newest version of Google's OS while I wait for the manufacturer specific version?

One other consideration is the hardware itself. Since you mentioned T-Mobile, you should know that there may be some incompatibilities in 3G (and 4G) frequencies. While most GSM phones will give you voice and data on most GSM networks, T-mobile uses the 1700 MHz band for their 3G service while AT&T uses the 1900 MHz band. If you get a phone with incompatible 3G radios, you will be limited to 2G speeds.

Is that GSM, UMTS, or some other thing? I'm doing a lot of my window shopping on Newegg, where it lists frequencies and compatible carriers, but I can't tell if "compatible carrier" means "compatible with their data networks", and Newegg's stats aren't always 100% complete, so a phone could be compatible with a network without being listed as such.

Plus, there's a decent chance I'll be going with a local phone service (West Central Wireless, whom I believe buys space from the old Cingular network, which is part of AT&T, which I now have to accept as a potential carrier because of this stupid T-Mobile merger) instead of a national one, and I'd need to know how to phrase the questions to find out what frequencies they use for various functions, such as voice or data, so I can know whether or not I'm buying a compatible phone through a third party. My local service certainly isn't listed on internationally listed websites, sadly.

No it's not hard to unlock. All you have to do is enter in a special code. Usually you can obtain the code from a carrier (T-mobile) after a certain amount of time.

Are those free, or do you have to pay for them?

Android OS supports multi-touch. Apps that requires multitouch, such as games, google maps etc will implement it. So you won't be missing out on any features as long as the OS supports it.

I don't know what the percentage of apps that implements multi-touch.

My question was more for the fact that not all physical handsets support multi-touch, even if the OS does. Thus I'm wondering if I can skimp on features without missing out on the experience.

Android syncs it's contacts and calendar with your gmail account. This is all done automatically and seamlessly. No need to hook it up with a computer. If you want to sync your contacts and calendar to a pc with outlook. You have to purchase third party apps from app store. Since I don't sync with my comp, I can't comment on which apps are good or bad.

What about loading apps? Can I do that by connecting it to my computer and loading them through that? I don't want to rely on having access to a wireless data network, and definitely want to be sure that I can access, alter, install, and otherwise control my phone through a wired connection to my PC.

====

Also, I hate this idea of a $500 blind investment. Are there places where I can give phones a trial run, see how I like them? I've already tried downloading and running the Android SDK, and while I could get it running, I wasn't sure how to install apps on it, and it's not exactly a physical experience.

 

[Moleculor]

Bump for unanswered questions.

 

[Moleculor]

No longer on the front page, still unanswered questions. Lemme repeat them here so new readers don't have to claw them out of the large post above:

Can I load apps via a wired connection to my computer? I'm assuming yes, but I want to make sure.

What would I ask to determine the various frequencies a company's data network operates on to see if a phone I'm buying is compatible with a service's data network? Is that over GSM, or is that something else?

Are unlock codes provided for a phone I buy through a phone company free if I wait long enough?

Why is it that strange, 3rd party companies know the unlock code to a phone? Is it determined by some algorithm, and if so, why aren't they just easily calculated by anyone?

How frequently do folks here use multi-touch?

 

[Crashdamage]

Can I load apps via a wired connection to my computer?

You can download apps on a computer, transfer them to the phone and install. Normally not much point in doing so unless you have a very limited data plan or slow connection.

What would I ask to determine the various frequencies a company's data network operates on to see if a phone I'm buying is compatible with a service's data network?

Frequency used for 3G/4G data connections. In the US (I'm assuming you're in the States) AT&T uses some 850Mhz or mostly 1900Mhz, T-Mobile uses 1700Mhz. So an AT&T phone used on T-Mo will only get 2G (Edge) data connections, and of course vice-versa.

Is that over GSM, or is that something else?

GSM. There is something else? - oh yeah, that CDMA thingy, what you can't talk and do data at the same time, that's about to go the way of the Dodo bird. Never mind...

Are unlock codes provided for a phone I buy through a phone company free if I wait long enough?

Usually free. T-Mobile is the most friendly regarding quickly unlocking phones or using unlocked phones on their network. Very nice back in the days of Razrs when a phone was just a phone. But with smartphones unlocking isn't a big deal so much since in the US you usually (with a few exceptions) have to buy the phone from the provider to get one setup for proper data frequency compatibility. See above about using AT&T phones on T-Mo or T-Mo phones on AT&T.

How frequently do folks here use multi-touch?

As for me just now and then. I never thought it was a big deal. A little clumsy and wouldn't miss it much if it went away.

 

[Moleculor]

You can download apps on a computer, transfer them to the phone and install. Normally not much point in doing so unless you have a very limited data plan or slow connection.

Yeah, data out here looks like it's going to double my cost on my plan. Not really looking forward to paying for that.

GSM. There is something else? - oh yeah, that CDMA thingy, what you can't talk and do data at the same time, that's about to go the way of the Dodo bird. Never mind...

So it's not the UMTS frequencies? Or UTMS or whatever the acronym is?

As for me just now and then. I never thought it was a big deal. A little clumsy and wouldn't miss it much if it went away.

Good to know, thanks.

===

It's looking like my two options right now are T-Mobile, which operate on 1700/2100, according to their tech support, and my current provider which operates on 850/1900. Which is weird, because I can't seem to find any phones that operate on that pair of frequencies for the UMTS thing. Unless it really is over GSM, and not UMTS. That would make this a lot easier.

 

[Moleculor]

Ok, wait, I think this whole GSM/UMTS thing is confusing me. I thought that UMTS is the data, and GSM is the voice.

Is that not true? Does data go over GSM as well, and UMTS is this other thing that's unique only to networks that *don't* use GSM, but instead use UMTS?

If so, do I need to care about UMTS at all?

 

[Usta]

Ok, wait, I think this whole GSM/UMTS thing is confusing me. I thought that UMTS is the data, and GSM is the voice.

Is that not true? Does data go over GSM as well, and UMTS is this other thing that's unique only to networks that *don't* use GSM, but instead use UMTS?

If so, do I need to care about UMTS at all?

Both GSM and UMTS are mobile telephony systems capable of voice and data communication. The difference is that UMTS (3G) is one of the systems that is replacing GSM (2G).

 

[jbainbridge]

Don't forget you can also use wi-fi to download / update apps etc. Saving your data allowance for when you are out.

 

[Moleculor]

Both GSM and UMTS are mobile telephony systems capable of voice and data communication. The difference is that UMTS (3G) is one of the systems that is replacing GSM (2G).

Wait, so... for a smartphone these days, do I not care about the GSM frequencies at all, if 3G is available in my area? I mean, obviously most phones are GSM quad band anyway, but is EVERYTHING done over UMTS now?

 

[Brucew0617]

Nexus S is the phone you want.

Nexus S +1, really a good one

 

[Usta]

Wait, so... for a smartphone these days, do I not care about the GSM frequencies at all, if 3G is available in my area? I mean, obviously most phones are GSM quad band anyway, but is EVERYTHING done over UMTS now?

Not everything.
3G is implemented by a few different standards, including UMTS and CDMA.
4G is starting to get some speed, for example via a WiMAX standard.
Even within 3G you have different speeds.

The important thing is that if you enable data package communication on your phone (aka data, not voice only), then it should use the best available speed automatically based on your current location and carrier.

 

[Moleculor]

Nexus S +1, really a good one

As I understand it, the Nexus S is a UMTS 900, 1700/2100, 2100, which makes it incompatible with anything faster than 2G on AT&T's data networks, and whatever network my local provider is planning on rolling out eventually, which operate on the 1900 band.

Correct?

The important thing is that if you enable data package communication on your phone (aka data, not voice only), then it should use the best available speed automatically based on your current location and carrier.

But all phones are incompatible with at least one data network of a major provider, yes? There's literally NO WAY I can purchase a phone that will operate on the 3G+ data networks of every US carrier? I can't seem to find a phone that's both 1700 and 1900 UMTS.

 

[salimundo]

Why do you want an unlocked phone? Do you plan on switching back and forth between T-mo and ATT frequently? Being that I've been with Verizon forever and theres really no reason to unlock because I couldn't use it on other carriers beside some regionals but I really don't understand why people in the US would want to pay full price for a phone just so its unlocked.

 

[Moleculor]

Because these are the phones available through my current carrier.

Because AT&T's coverage out here isn't that great, and T-Mobile may be about to be bought up. Yes, that means their network will be part of AT&T's, but which UMTS frequency will they use? 1700, or 1900?

Because I like the freedom to drop a carrier and switch to a new one if they get a better deal when I feel like it. Which may be what I do with my current carrier when I buy the new phone.

===

This whole thing is starting to get slightly frustrating, because I can't seem to get a very clear answer. I've tried asking various different ways, but I think I don't know the right words to ASK the question I need to ask. Lemme try again:

How do I ensure that my phone is compatible with as many 3G or faster data networks as possible? Are there ANY phones out there that are compatible with BOTH AT&T and T-Mobile's data networks, simultaneously?