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New app for media streaming

bayk said:
First, you will have legal issues. Similar sharing services have them.
Second, phone and ARM processor don't work will for server apps. In your case phones are storing the data and streaming it. It will consume a lot of power. People understand that when they are watching something. But I am pretty sure that nobody will be happy when there device will lose power, be hot (because somebody else watching).
Also, phones can't normally make P2P connection, it will be a problem for you. You will have to have a server.
But if you will go with this app, I would suggest you to use torrent architecture. It is match the best to your requirements.
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If you choose to keep your media content on your phone, you can choose to process your media on the media server, so you don't have to process it locally.
 
Jacob Villarreal said:
I just found out that copyright infringement is pertinent to violation of the copyright agreement, which covers the right to produce, copy, make, and sublicense the artistic, literary, musical, or cinematographical work in its entirety.
.
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no it isn't.. but feel free to guess again....
 
You see... if that was the case.. Pirate bay, etc would be in the clear.. all they would have to do, is snip 3 seconds off the credits and they would be in the clear.... Books wouldn't have copyright if you took the contents page out,

There would be no reason why anyone would clear music for film... and of course there wouldn't have been a time when Happy Birthday wasn't included in TV or movies.

And the Robin Thicke Blurred lines case would never have even made it to court..

And the DMCA would hardly cover ANYTHING AT ALL, if you left out a single byte of data.
 
Jacob Villarreal said:
If you choose to keep your media content on your phone, you can choose to process your media on the media server, so you don't have to process it locally.
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So that would be some online thing on public internet, where you might be uploading copyrighted media to, for sharing to anyone? If so, might find it shut down or seized by the feds, or blocked by the ISPs, which often happens in Europe.
 
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psionandy said:
You see... if that was the case.. Pirate bay, etc would be in the clear.. all they would have to do, is snip 3 seconds off the credits and they would be in the clear.... Books wouldn't have copyright if you took the contents page out,

There would be no reason why anyone would clear music for film... and of course there wouldn't have been a time when Happy Birthday wasn't included in TV or movies.

And the Robin Thicke Blurred lines case would never have even made it to court..

And the DMCA would hardly cover ANYTHING AT ALL, if you left out a single byte of data.
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I won't go into detail... but I think you still have to clear music for film, as it is a musical work.
 
Jacob Villarreal said:
I won't go into detail... but I think you still have to clear music for film, as it is a musical work.
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Please do go into detail.... Feel free to list sources and statutes. We really don't mind, and it will be useful when all those media lawyers start threatening legal action.

Over the last few days mystery science theatre 3000 has come back on Netflix. I LOVE this new series where they riff on really bad old movies.


One of the things they said in their nterviews is that they couldn't always get the movies they wanted, because of rights issues. I bet they feel like a bunch of iduits now... Because they edit them, and block out part of the view with their robot friends.
And they don't even upload the movies onto TV... So they aren't even distributing it.

If only they had heard about copyright law... All of their problems could have been solved.
 
psionandy said:
Please do go into detail.... Feel free to list sources and statutes. We really don't mind, and it will be useful when all those media lawyers start threatening legal action.

Over the last few days mystery science theatre 3000 has come back on Netflix. I LOVE this new series where they riff on really bad old movies.


One of the things they said in their nterviews is that they couldn't always get the movies they wanted, because of rights issues. I bet they feel like a bunch of iduits now... Because they edit them, and block out part of the view with their robot friends.
And they don't even upload the movies onto TV... So they aren't even distributing it.

If only they had heard about copyright law... All of their problems could have been solved.
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Aren't you talking about a network TV show?
 
Yes... But you said as long as a movie wasn't shown in its entirety, or wasn't uploaded copyright infringement doesn't apply, and as there isn't a separate set of copyright laws for tv shows its covered by the same rules.
 
psionandy said:
Yes... But you said as long as a movie wasn't shown in its entirety, or wasn't uploaded copyright infringement doesn't apply, and as there isn't a separate set of copyright laws for tv shows the same laws apply
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Given that the copyright is a grant of exclusive rights to the Licensor, the licensor would have the right to deny the use of the work depending on whether the work is used in its entirety or not. So the issue might have been a disagreement with the way the work was to be used on the show along with second-party/third-party props, etc...
 
mikedt said:
Well if it doesn't get there, we're not going to be sharing with anyone are we?

We could argue on this forum all day, but if you really think your app and service are legal, go ahead and launch it, and see what happens.
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It will be shared, but only if it is shareable to the extent that it is to be shared...
 
Jacob Villarreal said:
Given that the copyright is a grant of exclusive rights to the Licensor, the licensor would have the right to deny the use of the work depending on whether the work is used in its entirety or not. So the issue might have been a disagreement with the way the work was to be used on the show along with second-party/third-party props, etc...
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so... How are you going to gain the approval from the holder of those exclusive rights , for your app? On the basis that you will be working under that same legal framework.

If you don't obtain that permission you would be infringing on those rights.


(At the very least now, you should be able to see why your previous statement about copyright infringement wasn't completely accurate.... Due to the way copyright law is written, an individual with a media device is covered by the same copyright law as a network tv company)
 
We just started working on it a couple of days ago. I don't have any eta yet. I'm not sure how long it will take the programmers to get it done. I'll see if I can post an update here whenever its out.
 
mikedt said:
I give up...

Think I'll wait until I see it working. When are you going to launch the app?
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Actually Mike you have already...


(well, maybe not you in the PRC, but the rest of us have)


What Jacob has done, is he's invented Netflix again.



There's a couple of bits of his design that he needs to flesh out, but apart from that its all there.

Now, Others have done this, but (unlike Jacob) they have completely floughted copyright law and their plan is to try and keep one step ahead of the law, until they retire from the game or are caught.



That doesn't seem to be Jacob's plan at all. His seems to be


1) obtain media (motion pictures etc) that he wants to share

2) Store them on his own device

3) Produce a simple client app that others can use to find those movies easily

4) Share them from his own device

5) Make people love him for providing such a wonderful service and a great choice of movies.



Now there are a few steps to go through before he gets to step 5.


1a) Get the agreement from the copyright holders that he's allowed to do this. Netflix have found this possible. And it involves handing over a pile of money for this. Sometimes the pile of money is larger than the others, sometimes even a pile of money isn't sufficient to do this as exclusivity deals exist, which is why some of the shows I want to watch are on Amazon Prime instead.

1b) If you own the copyright, you can shortcut this... which is why Netflix are now making their own content. How talented is your cat? do you have any entertaining robot friends who like discussing movies?



2a) As others have mentioned, this may be a problem for your phone. In fact if you are sharing this with a lot of people the ARM processor in your phone might not be up to the job... and you might need more storage space.... and maybe some more memory.... and a bigger network connection.... and some more power than a 3200mAH battery... and maybe a more server like device.... and... well you can see where this is going. From a technical point of view, netflix have a massive server farm doing this


3a) see the netflix App/browser app/ ios app/smart tv/chromecast etc....


4a) you're going to need bandwidth... particuarly upstream, you may want to check what your broadband conection will do. Normally you get more down than up, thats not going to help you here. And Bandwidth caps... and its going to have to be able to be done fast with limited latency.... Netflix have found they can ramp up/ramp down resolution when bandwith gets tight at the client end.


4b) Copyright issues.. see 1a, part of the pile of money deal may involve paying the holder per stream.. , see 1a/1b


5) in order to do this, you do need to be able to generate the monet for the movies in 1), the hardware in2), the client in 3) and the bandwidth in 4.... hopefully people will love you enough each month to provide the revenue for this.


Good luck,and enjoy all that love
 
Jacob Villarreal said:
Can you answer these questions?
Can piracy be accomplished without paid use, and distribution of copyrighted work?
Can copyright infringement be accomplished without contiguous full-length reproduction, duplication, making, or sublicensing of copyrighted work?
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I don't understand how this is a valid response? I'm not the one who needs to defend anything

Jacob Villarreal said:
No uploading...
Click to expand...

Jacob Villarreal said:
If you choose to keep your media content on your phone, you can choose to process your media on the media server, so you don't have to process it locally.
Click to expand...

If there's no uploading, how would it get to the media server that's going to stop media being processed locally?
 
psionandy said:
Actually Mike you have already...


(well, maybe not you in the PRC, but the rest of us have)


What Jacob has done, is he's invented Netflix again.



There's a couple of bits of his design that he needs to flesh out, but apart from that its all there.

Now, Others have done this, but (unlike Jacob) they have completely floughted copyright law and their plan is to try and keep one step ahead of the law, until they retire from the game or are caught.



That doesn't seem to be Jacob's plan at all. His seems to be


1) obtain media (motion pictures etc) that he wants to share

2) Store them on his own device

3) Produce a simple client app that others can use to find those movies easily

4) Share them from his own device

5) Make people love him for providing such a wonderful service and a great choice of movies.



Now there are a few steps to go through before he gets to step 5.


1a) Get the agreement from the copyright holders that he's allowed to do this. Netflix have found this possible. And it involves handing over a pile of money for this. Sometimes the pile of money is larger than the others, sometimes even a pile of money isn't sufficient to do this as exclusivity deals exist, which is why some of the shows I want to watch are on Amazon Prime instead.

1b) If you own the copyright, you can shortcut this... which is why Netflix are now making their own content. How talented is your cat? do you have any entertaining robot friends who like discussing movies?



2a) As others have mentioned, this may be a problem for your phone. In fact if you are sharing this with a lot of people the ARM processor in your phone might not be up to the job... and you might need more storage space.... and maybe some more memory.... and a bigger network connection.... and some more power than a 3200mAH battery... and maybe a more server like device.... and... well you can see where this is going. From a technical point of view, netflix have a massive server farm doing this


3a) see the netflix App/browser app/ ios app/smart tv/chromecast etc....


4a) you're going to need bandwidth... particuarly upstream, you may want to check what your broadband conection will do. Normally you get more down than up, thats not going to help you here. And Bandwidth caps... and its going to have to be able to be done fast with limited latency.... Netflix have found they can ramp up/ramp down resolution when bandwith gets tight at the client end.


4b) Copyright issues.. see 1a, part of the pile of money deal may involve paying the holder per stream.. , see 1a/1b


5) in order to do this, you do need to be able to generate the monet for the movies in 1), the hardware in2), the client in 3) and the bandwidth in 4.... hopefully people will love you enough each month to provide the revenue for this.


Good luck,and enjoy all that love
Click to expand...

Sharing just sounds better, but it's a streaming app. The app doesn't consist of any shared distribution.
 
Jacob Villarreal said:
Can you answer these questions?
Can piracy be accomplished without paid use, and distribution of copyrighted work?
Can copyright infringement be accomplished without contiguous full-length reproduction, duplication, making, or sublicensing of copyrighted work?
Click to expand...

In response to your response:
How can piracy be accomplished without distribution of any form?
How can copyright infringement be accomplished without contiguous full-length, reproduction, duplication, performance, display, nor sublicensing of any form?
 
bayk said:
First, you will have legal issues. Similar sharing services have them.
Second, phone and ARM processor don't work will for server apps. In your case phones are storing the data and streaming it. It will consume a lot of power. People understand that when they are watching something. But I am pretty sure that nobody will be happy when there device will lose power, be hot (because somebody else watching).
Also, phones can't normally make P2P connection, it will be a problem for you. You will have to have a server.
But if you will go with this app, I would suggest you to use torrent architecture. It is match the best to your requirements.
Click to expand...

In response:
The sampling data would consist of a backup copy of the consumer's personal media content, and would be spliced into clips for download by the media server, for streaming from the media server. So there might be millions of blocks of clip data to be streamed from the media server, out to consumers, but that's typical overhead with an application of this magnitude. So I figured the majority of the bandwidth needed from any device would be one download per media file, at 1/4 the size at a time, per user request. So its got some overhead on the device, but not much, it just depends on whether you're willing to sacrifice a bit for the sharing side of it. But you can always share from your pc instead, and use your smart phone only for streaming of media content to it by means of the app.

But anywayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy.......

I did some research on copyright infringement cases consisting of prison term sentences, and decided not to bother with this app idea. Sometimes it doesn't matter when you're business is principally legal, and ethical. The courts observe the laws in place and carry out their judgments accordingly. So in any case, I'm out, in case anyone else is interested in getting this app idea out. I think it's a really neat idea, with a lot of potential. Sounds like fun!
 
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