Trollatoppan
Well-Known Member
Are there any news/rumors on any new HTC Android phones (for the European market)?
Maybe a successor to the HTC Desire series?
Maybe a successor to the HTC Desire series?
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New HTC Android phones?
- Thread starter Trollatoppan
- Start date
Things are mighty quiet now - it's the pre-CES info lull. In about 5 days, we'll know.
Trollatoppan
Well-Known Member
What happens in 5 days (from the day you replied) ?
On Jan 6, one of the world's major product launch shows kicks off called the Consumer Electronics Show (aka CES) in Las Vegas, Nevada, USA.
This is one of just a few major shows of its kind held each year in the US, then Europe, then Asia (if my memory is correct on the order).
We're certain many vendors will be making major Android-related announcments - we just don't know what they'll be yet.
And while CES will have some US focus without doubt - it will most certainly have lots of press releases flowing out giving info for products in the other world regions as well.
This is one of just a few major shows of its kind held each year in the US, then Europe, then Asia (if my memory is correct on the order).
We're certain many vendors will be making major Android-related announcments - we just don't know what they'll be yet.
And while CES will have some US focus without doubt - it will most certainly have lots of press releases flowing out giving info for products in the other world regions as well.
Many for US types:
Thunderbird
Merge
Shift Evo
Inspire
Still rumored Paradise (HTC Vision type for AT&T; Vision = Desire Z/G2 platform)
All these phones just fit into two categories - a 4.3" "HD" aka "Ace" and a 3.8" slider aka "Vision". Example, Merge and Shift EVO belong to the Vision type. The just revealed Inspire appears to be an Ace type.
There are two kinds of model introductions. One is the vertical type where you expand the technological boundaries. The second is the horizontal type where you are expanding to new carriers and regions.
HTC's course now appears to be a slant but more horizontal. In other words, the only real innovation has been 4G and they more concerned expanding reach rather than innovation.
There really is nothing to move forward from the Desire Z and Desire HD right now except to add 4G and front cameras in them.
No dual core because HTC is so wed with Qualcomm they won't use any chip but Qualcomm. The problem is, Qualcomm is late in getting their dual cores out, leaving HTC with nothing but single core Snapdragons while the competition moved to Tegra 2.
I see the HTC Desire HD as a very nice phone but essentially, its an evolutionary improvement over the Nexus One, not revolutionary.
HTC maybe the Android pioneer, but if they keep up the way they have been introducing their phones (their Windows Phone 7s totally reek of the lack of imagination), they're headed to the RAZR phenomena and 2011 may not be their year.
Motorola has far more gumption in introducing designs and so has been Samsung. For that Samsung now appears to have taken the lead in the Android race. The real darkhorse and surprise for 2011 maybe from companies that we previously would never view as leaders or has looked down upon as Android phones. I am referring to both LG and Sony Ericsson here. Both seems to be on a strong comeback trail. In particular, LG appears willing to take some risks.
Thunderbird
Merge
Shift Evo
Inspire
Still rumored Paradise (HTC Vision type for AT&T; Vision = Desire Z/G2 platform)
All these phones just fit into two categories - a 4.3" "HD" aka "Ace" and a 3.8" slider aka "Vision". Example, Merge and Shift EVO belong to the Vision type. The just revealed Inspire appears to be an Ace type.
There are two kinds of model introductions. One is the vertical type where you expand the technological boundaries. The second is the horizontal type where you are expanding to new carriers and regions.
HTC's course now appears to be a slant but more horizontal. In other words, the only real innovation has been 4G and they more concerned expanding reach rather than innovation.
There really is nothing to move forward from the Desire Z and Desire HD right now except to add 4G and front cameras in them.
No dual core because HTC is so wed with Qualcomm they won't use any chip but Qualcomm. The problem is, Qualcomm is late in getting their dual cores out, leaving HTC with nothing but single core Snapdragons while the competition moved to Tegra 2.
I see the HTC Desire HD as a very nice phone but essentially, its an evolutionary improvement over the Nexus One, not revolutionary.
HTC maybe the Android pioneer, but if they keep up the way they have been introducing their phones (their Windows Phone 7s totally reek of the lack of imagination), they're headed to the RAZR phenomena and 2011 may not be their year.
Motorola has far more gumption in introducing designs and so has been Samsung. For that Samsung now appears to have taken the lead in the Android race. The real darkhorse and surprise for 2011 maybe from companies that we previously would never view as leaders or has looked down upon as Android phones. I am referring to both LG and Sony Ericsson here. Both seems to be on a strong comeback trail. In particular, LG appears willing to take some risks.
Trollatoppan
Well-Known Member
Thanks a lot for the updates.
Too bad the new aren't too interesting - at least not for me.
Lets hope the European show had more to offer.
Any ideas what that is?
Too bad the new aren't too interesting - at least not for me.
Lets hope the European show had more to offer.
Any ideas what that is?
Medion
Android Expert
I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you here. HTC likes to have engineering samples in hand so that they can get their products out on time. There were quite a few OEMs interested in using Tegra the first time around, but it took so long for nVidia to bring it to market that it was eventually ignored. I mean, who wanted a 2-year delayed ARM11 chipset when people were already rolling out Snapdragon and Cortex A8.
Tegra 2 faces a similar issue. It's been delayed repeatedly. At the time that HTC was designing the Desire Z and Desire HD, they had engineering samples of the MSM 7x30 and MSM 8x55. So, they went ahead with those. Now, you're absolutely right about the horizontal development. Last year they made the Desire, and then spent all year porting that platform (N1, Desire, Evo, Incredible). We'll see more ports of the Desire Z and Desire HD this year.
Right now, there are engineering samples out for dual-core chips from Samsung (Orion), TI (OMAP 4430/4430) and Qualcomm (Snapdragon MSM 8260/8660). We should see products using these within the next 6-9 months. No reason for the Thunderbolt to be delayed that long when this chip can be used in the next revision.
I can't agree with you that Motorola has more gumption. They're not using Tegra either. And their bet on OMAP didn't work as well as expected. Because OMAP went a different route, it took them a year AFTER Qualcomm to hit 1ghz (although they got the better GPU). The Desire absolutely killed the Milestone in Euro sales. I can't blame their decision to use OMAP for affecting US Sales. That was because of their 1-carrier strategy.
If you disagree with me, look at CES right now. There are Tegra2 phones and tablets everywhere. Look at Motorola just announced two Tegra2 smartphones and a Tegra2 tablet. Motorola was the first to break the 1 GHz barrier remember? Not HTC.
Look at Samsung. They just announced a 1.2GHz smartphone in CES.
Looking at CES, there's nothing really exciting from HTC right now.
The HTC Desire was a different story. You know, HTC could have nailed it originally if they had introduced the HD2 with Android back in October of 2009. That mistake allowed Motorola to run away with Droid/Milestone for two quarters. Seems like Peter Chou was still kissing Microsoft's ass and not giving Android the hardware it deserved.
It took Google to push HTC and everyone by introducing the Nexus One. The HTC Desire was a perfected Nexus One. The Nexus One had the right idea but the lousy execution, which took the Desire to perfect that. And when it did, the Desire became HTC's biggest seller and most highly rated smartphone. But that spark of innovation that led to the Desire didn't come from HTC but from Google.
Since then, HTC just evolved their phones and everything else seems like a derivative of Nexus One/Desire right down to the Windows Phone 7s. That reeks of Motorola RAZR/Nokia/Blackberry marketing strategies. HTC is afraid to tamper with success and everything seems constructed with the Nexus One/HTC Desire theme. Last time they were truly innovative was the Legend whose construction concepts are now being used on the Desire HD and HD7.
Then again, look at all the new HTC phones. While definitely better than any Nexus One or HTC Desire, they failed to fall far from the tree.
In contrast, I look at the latest smartphones being introduced by Motorola, LG, Sony Ericsson, Samsung and so on being announced at CES and they're all pushing the envelope in both electronics and style.
Please note I happen to own quite a bit of HTC smartphones, the latest being the HTC Desire Z, and previous to that, a Droid Incredible, and before that, HTC Desire and before that, the Nexus One.
Look at Samsung. They just announced a 1.2GHz smartphone in CES.
Looking at CES, there's nothing really exciting from HTC right now.
The HTC Desire was a different story. You know, HTC could have nailed it originally if they had introduced the HD2 with Android back in October of 2009. That mistake allowed Motorola to run away with Droid/Milestone for two quarters. Seems like Peter Chou was still kissing Microsoft's ass and not giving Android the hardware it deserved.
It took Google to push HTC and everyone by introducing the Nexus One. The HTC Desire was a perfected Nexus One. The Nexus One had the right idea but the lousy execution, which took the Desire to perfect that. And when it did, the Desire became HTC's biggest seller and most highly rated smartphone. But that spark of innovation that led to the Desire didn't come from HTC but from Google.
Since then, HTC just evolved their phones and everything else seems like a derivative of Nexus One/Desire right down to the Windows Phone 7s. That reeks of Motorola RAZR/Nokia/Blackberry marketing strategies. HTC is afraid to tamper with success and everything seems constructed with the Nexus One/HTC Desire theme. Last time they were truly innovative was the Legend whose construction concepts are now being used on the Desire HD and HD7.
Then again, look at all the new HTC phones. While definitely better than any Nexus One or HTC Desire, they failed to fall far from the tree.
In contrast, I look at the latest smartphones being introduced by Motorola, LG, Sony Ericsson, Samsung and so on being announced at CES and they're all pushing the envelope in both electronics and style.
Please note I happen to own quite a bit of HTC smartphones, the latest being the HTC Desire Z, and previous to that, a Droid Incredible, and before that, HTC Desire and before that, the Nexus One.
You could be right Guamguy, they could be sitting on their laurels and preparing to disappoint.
I note however what we've seen late-year in the press - an employment call for senior engineers and designers, especially with e-ink and display experience, for their Research Triangle Park, NC, facility; an announcement to their suppliers that they're projecting a parts need for 60 million smartphones this year, when they sold 20~21 million last year, and projections of 10 million 4G phones this year.
Noting that they got stuck behind the 8-ball when Samsung couldn't supply enough S/AMOLED screens for others, they've turned LCD (and some Sony expertise) and now Qualcomm is putting up a US$1 billion Mirasol fab in Taiwan.
Looks to me that maybe they might be planning on leapfrogging the CES crop you're referring to with superior display technologies with some sort of transreflective tech.
Whatever they'll put inside, they'll undoubtedly buy on the island. TSMC announced a 60% increase in Tegra orders and is partnered with Qualcomm for newer 28 nm technology.
Time will tell, but I wouldn't count HTC out just now.
I note however what we've seen late-year in the press - an employment call for senior engineers and designers, especially with e-ink and display experience, for their Research Triangle Park, NC, facility; an announcement to their suppliers that they're projecting a parts need for 60 million smartphones this year, when they sold 20~21 million last year, and projections of 10 million 4G phones this year.
Noting that they got stuck behind the 8-ball when Samsung couldn't supply enough S/AMOLED screens for others, they've turned LCD (and some Sony expertise) and now Qualcomm is putting up a US$1 billion Mirasol fab in Taiwan.
Looks to me that maybe they might be planning on leapfrogging the CES crop you're referring to with superior display technologies with some sort of transreflective tech.
Whatever they'll put inside, they'll undoubtedly buy on the island. TSMC announced a 60% increase in Tegra orders and is partnered with Qualcomm for newer 28 nm technology.
Time will tell, but I wouldn't count HTC out just now.
Problem with HTC, they kowtow too much to their "partners", most particularly, Qualcomm. By being vendor dependent, they lose flexibility.
Its really interesting because nVidia has a Chinese cofounder with deep Taiwan-China connections, and coming from the same background that bred the likes of HTC, TSMC, Acer, Asus and other Taiwan tech strongholds.
This is unlike Motorola, who can easily jump between Qualcomm, Texas Instruments (OMAP) and now nVidia. By doing so, they are not limited to the issue of the vendor's SOC. LG is also showing flexibility---they are using both Tegra2 and OMAP6 chips on the high end, low end is using Qualcomm. Samsung, probably having issues with Orion, is biting the bullet---and shows they got the flexibility to do so---by buying up nVidia.
Qualcomm now has shipping samples of their dual cores and expects to field them in the 2nd half of 2011. The problem is, every month is now an eternity in the mobile field. The kind of slip up Qualcomm has made is going to let nVidia a major opportunity to hedge into the market.
And we're hearing other vendors now. Broadcom with a chipset that can make ultra cheap Androids. Freescale with triple and quad core SOCs.
History has shown things can turn quickly around. HTC dominated the 2nd quarter of 2010 in Android, taking the crown off from Motorola. The Desire trounced the Milestone/Droid yes.
And then the Galaxy S hit, and despite its issues, it has now become the biggest Android phone seller with at least 10 million sold. With the Galaxy S, Samsung placed themselves over the top of HTC in US and global markets. That's one example of HTC "sitting" on its laurels.
HTC also made mistakes on the low end and mid end, which LG just stole under them with the Optimus One. Its so ironical since the Optimus One resembles the Verizon HTC Droid Eris so much in design, size and form, right down to the metal ridge that runs on top and sides of the phone and seats the earphone jack.
Here's the problem of HTC---they have to load the phone with at least, one deal breaker.
HTC Desire - limited internal memory.
HTC Desire HD - 1200mah battery
HTC Desire Z - The Z hinge
Droid Incredible - crappy body build
HTC Legend - overbuilt body for the market segment
HTC Aria/Gratia - Failure to come up with this phone internationally in time.
HTC Wildfire - QVGA
Droid Eris - Perfect low to mid end Android form factor, but Verizon only.
These deal breakers cannot be solved with a software update or fix. Whatever issues you have on the Galaxy S, it can be solved with software.
What would have happened if the Desire had the DInc's internal memory? Or the Incredible had the Desire's body? Or if the Desire HD had the 1500mah battery (like used in the Touch Pro 2). Or if the Wildfire had at least HVGA? Or if an international Aria debuted in April instead of October? What if the Droid Eris had been on GSM, sold internationally early this year?
Its really interesting because nVidia has a Chinese cofounder with deep Taiwan-China connections, and coming from the same background that bred the likes of HTC, TSMC, Acer, Asus and other Taiwan tech strongholds.
This is unlike Motorola, who can easily jump between Qualcomm, Texas Instruments (OMAP) and now nVidia. By doing so, they are not limited to the issue of the vendor's SOC. LG is also showing flexibility---they are using both Tegra2 and OMAP6 chips on the high end, low end is using Qualcomm. Samsung, probably having issues with Orion, is biting the bullet---and shows they got the flexibility to do so---by buying up nVidia.
Qualcomm now has shipping samples of their dual cores and expects to field them in the 2nd half of 2011. The problem is, every month is now an eternity in the mobile field. The kind of slip up Qualcomm has made is going to let nVidia a major opportunity to hedge into the market.
And we're hearing other vendors now. Broadcom with a chipset that can make ultra cheap Androids. Freescale with triple and quad core SOCs.
History has shown things can turn quickly around. HTC dominated the 2nd quarter of 2010 in Android, taking the crown off from Motorola. The Desire trounced the Milestone/Droid yes.
And then the Galaxy S hit, and despite its issues, it has now become the biggest Android phone seller with at least 10 million sold. With the Galaxy S, Samsung placed themselves over the top of HTC in US and global markets. That's one example of HTC "sitting" on its laurels.
HTC also made mistakes on the low end and mid end, which LG just stole under them with the Optimus One. Its so ironical since the Optimus One resembles the Verizon HTC Droid Eris so much in design, size and form, right down to the metal ridge that runs on top and sides of the phone and seats the earphone jack.
Here's the problem of HTC---they have to load the phone with at least, one deal breaker.
HTC Desire - limited internal memory.
HTC Desire HD - 1200mah battery
HTC Desire Z - The Z hinge
Droid Incredible - crappy body build
HTC Legend - overbuilt body for the market segment
HTC Aria/Gratia - Failure to come up with this phone internationally in time.
HTC Wildfire - QVGA
Droid Eris - Perfect low to mid end Android form factor, but Verizon only.
These deal breakers cannot be solved with a software update or fix. Whatever issues you have on the Galaxy S, it can be solved with software.
What would have happened if the Desire had the DInc's internal memory? Or the Incredible had the Desire's body? Or if the Desire HD had the 1500mah battery (like used in the Touch Pro 2). Or if the Wildfire had at least HVGA? Or if an international Aria debuted in April instead of October? What if the Droid Eris had been on GSM, sold internationally early this year?
I dunno - TSMC is the major foundry and supplier of nVidia and Qualcomm in this area.
And tech deals on this level are like quantum physics - they're not stranger than you imagine, they're stranger than you can imagine.
Of LG, Motorola, Samsung and HTC - HTC is Taiwan, TSMC is Taiwan. This is not a minor point.
Any Asian country spends a lot setting up deals to protect their own - this isn't practiced so much in the US. The mixture of fierce competitors being the same as the fierce partners makes the head spin - mine, anyway.
TSMC is partnered with nVidia and Qualcomm. They're the economic powerhouse of Taiwan. HTC can hide behind their skirts on any deal and no one will kick.
CES is a big deal, but it's time to market that counts. We have the projections and the promises.
HTC has purposefully held back from CES - to my surprise I've read they don't even have a booth there this year.
They have made a point of saying their tablet, the Scribe, will run Honeycomb and it will be introduced at MWC (Barcelona) in February. We know that much.
Maybe they got nothing exciting coming. Or maybe they're going to launch newer products later when they have the spotlight to themselves. In the interim, I've no doubt they'll hoover up a lot of Thunderbolt and Shift orders.
As for Samsung - Samsung is at once a chip producer, a display producer and a finished products producer.
As for Motorola - they've gone thru incredible corporate gyrations within the last 11 years defining themselves and where they stand in innovation.
For either to NOT show significant muscle and innovation would be news.
Maybe they'll be eclipsed by all these others, as you say. If they do grow their smartphone business by a factor of three this year as they predict, no one on their board will be caring about our opinions on where their products may be wrong.
Medion
Android Expert
@ Guamguy
Had HTC not gone through with their plans, there would be no Desire Z, Desire HD, no G2, no Shift, no Thunderbolt, etc. They would have made the Desire and rested on their laurels. The HTC Desire platform beat OMAP 1ghz by a solid 4 months, and that was huge for HTC. Now Motorola is beating them this refresh cycle. That's what happens.
But, if Moto did hit 1ghz before HTC, again, I'm not recalling this phone. Please link it.
But yea, Moto got the jump on Android in comparison to HTC. I just wish they had been smart enough to move to more than 1 US carrier. That's where HTC got the jump.
As for your issues on the Incredible, I'm happy with the build quality and the form factor, but that's personal preference. Also, you list one complaint with each phone, but I could do the same with any Moto or Samsung. Yes, hardware related too.
You make good points overall, but I really think you're focusing on the "now" and nothing else. Yes, the other companies leapfrogged HTC. But, again, it seems that HTC's release cycle is different, so that means that if they continue, they will leapfrog the competition in 3-6 months, and then be surpassed again.
The company I'd be worried about is Motorola. I'm glad to see them embrace Tegra this time instead of waiting like they did on OMAP. But, they tend to have the same release window as Samsung. And I'm also glad to see them branching out on carriers. Those two changes should make them more competitive. They've clearly learned from their mistakes.
Are they in the store now? I thought we were talking availability. Don't get me wrong, it's clear right now that Tegra 2 is beating the other dual-cores to market. But I didn't disagree with you there.
Had HTC not gone through with their plans, there would be no Desire Z, Desire HD, no G2, no Shift, no Thunderbolt, etc. They would have made the Desire and rested on their laurels. The HTC Desire platform beat OMAP 1ghz by a solid 4 months, and that was huge for HTC. Now Motorola is beating them this refresh cycle. That's what happens.
Can you link me the phone? My recollection of the first 1ghz phone was the Toshiba TG01 released in June of 2009. The first HTC made 1ghz phone was the Nexus One, released in January 2010. The first HTC branded 1ghz phone was the Desire, released in February 2010. The first 1ghz Motorola I'm aware of was the Droid X, released in July of 2010. That was a 1ghz OMAP. Or, are you talking about the slight bump to 1.2 ghz of the Droid 2 Global (not meeting, but surpassing 1ghz)? If that's the case, Snapdragon is still faster clock for clock, and the Adreno 205 is faster than the SGX 530. So the Desire HD is still a faster phone.
But, if Moto did hit 1ghz before HTC, again, I'm not recalling this phone. Please link it.
I agree, but let's wait till the end of CES. I know they're announcing the Thunderbolt at some point (if it's been announced, I missed it. I'm at home with the baby, we sent a different reporter to CES).
I agree. HTC was VERY slow to adopt high-end Android in relation to Motorola. But, they got it mostly right with the Desire, and it's been a hit. Last I heard, global sales beat the Milestone. But, if you add in local Droid sales, then you also have to add in sales of the Evo, Incredible, and N1, which are all built on the same platform, the former two being carrier customized versions. At least, that's my take on it.
But yea, Moto got the jump on Android in comparison to HTC. I just wish they had been smart enough to move to more than 1 US carrier. That's where HTC got the jump.
I think it depends on how you look at it. It seems that the platform (Bravo) was already in development, and Google chose it to be their showcase phone, as they did after the fact with the Galaxy/Nexus S. I don't know much about the differences from the N1 to the Desire, but I don't think that's where it was perfected. It was the Evo/Incredible versions that got the better touch sensor, the higher MP camera with limited HD recording, and other features (larger screen, FFC, 8GB internal, depending on which one you look at).
Well, it's clear that they are trying to offer 4 key phones. You have your small/medium/large (Aria and clones, Desire, Desire HD) and your qwerty (Desire Z). Snapdragon was the best choice at the time to launch the Desire, or they would have had to wait 5-6 more months for OMAP to catch up. Now they've already launched 2nd gen Snapdragons. You can argue this both ways for HTC or Motorola, but both companies are clearly on different cycles where they will 1-up each other every 6 months.
But they also get economies of scale.
I agree here. While I don't have issues with HTC's strategy (as I stated, they're on a different upgrade cycle, you could have said the same about Moto 6 months ago), no company stays on top. If they stick with Qualcomm, they'll fail when QC fails.
Agreed. And, it's not just that. Qualcomm did what they could to make the Scorpion MPCore come out before Cortex A8, and surpass it. They did well (again, Scorpion has more in common with A9 than A8, but is still in between). But they're going to stick with Scorpion in the dual-core wars which is a mistake against A9. A9 SHOULD be faster clock for clock. It's already appearing to be 20% faster than A8, clock for clock. Scorpion was only 5-10% faster than A8 clock for clock.
Broadcom has an excellent GPU tied to an ARM11. They need to pick it up. Last I heard, Freescale was also milking ARM11. If they've caught up or surpassed the big guys, I'd be pleasantly surprised.
Agree and disagree. The first part goes back to what I said. Moto leaped out the gate with the 65nm Cortex A8. HTC hit back a few months later with a 1ghz Snapdragon. They kept releasing and selling phones based on this architecture. Finally, Moto released their phones based on the 1ghz 45nm OMAP, but did so around the time the Galaxy S hit. And while Samsung did well (over 10M sales of the Galaxy S line in 6 months), many accounts put HTC at more than double that with their Desire line and phones based on it. That's spread out over a year, so sales per half are identical if averaged out.
Agreed, HTC botched the low end. When they started their Snapdragon kick, they abandoned their Hero line (which includes the Eris). That pissed off consumers waiting for updates that never came (and continue to wait).
As for your issues on the Incredible, I'm happy with the build quality and the form factor, but that's personal preference. Also, you list one complaint with each phone, but I could do the same with any Moto or Samsung. Yes, hardware related too.
You make good points overall, but I really think you're focusing on the "now" and nothing else. Yes, the other companies leapfrogged HTC. But, again, it seems that HTC's release cycle is different, so that means that if they continue, they will leapfrog the competition in 3-6 months, and then be surpassed again.
The company I'd be worried about is Motorola. I'm glad to see them embrace Tegra this time instead of waiting like they did on OMAP. But, they tend to have the same release window as Samsung. And I'm also glad to see them branching out on carriers. Those two changes should make them more competitive. They've clearly learned from their mistakes.
I meant "breaking" (as in going faster than 1 Ghz), not "introducing the first 1GHz phone". The first post 1 Ghz phone is the Droid 2 Global with 1.2Ghz.
Motorola's own fail was being too tied with Verizon. Milestone 2 failed to come out when the coals are hot (Droid 2 was a Verizon exclusive for at least 3 months). The same goes to the Motoroi X, which is the GSM Droid X.
Another Motorola fail is having too many region specific models. There are models of Motorola Androids in China no one in the US ever heard of, like the new cute Ming.
Qualcomm certainly had the 1Ghz advantage for a long time. But HTC did sat on it until Google shoved them with the Nexus One. HTC lost a splendid opportunity putting Android on the HD2---a monster that could have been released in October 2009. They have lost months or even a year to create a significant impact.
I believe the first 45mn OMAP6 went to the Motoroi XT720 and XT800, rated at 720 to 800MHz but underclocked initially at 550Mhz. They were first introduced around March but was never introduced in the US.
HTC Nexus One-Desire-Droid Incredible should be considered as a single platform. The differences of the three have been mostly aesthetic and external. By this account, this platform ranks with the Galaxy S as the most successful.
However, I cannot agree with you that HTC doubled that of Samsung. HTC's own total shipments have been like 3-4 million, then 5-6 million, then 7-8 million, probably 9 million now. That's for all phones. Including their Brew phones, some Windows Phone 7 or legacy Windows Mobile. That includes all their US, China, and international Android models from Desire to EVO.
Yet. the Galaxy S moved about 5 million in about 3 to 4 months. That's one main phone alone though it has its carrier and regional variants. 10 million before the end of the year. The Tab moved about a million in a month. The 3rd quarter of 2010 showed Samsung moving about 9 to 10 million smartphones (including Wave) at a time when HTC moved about 7 to 8 million of its own. At least half of what Samsung moved is just the Galaxy S, the other half are the low end Galaxies, Bada Wave phones, and some Windows phones. The Galaxy S is a tremendous success that no HTC matched, not even the Desire. To say tremendous is an understatement for Samsung who never had truly global success on smartphones of this magnitude.
Android marketing --- and much of mobile marketing --- is based on the concept, "strike the iron when the coals are hot". Or in other words, timely "shock and awe". Phones always sells best during the moment of launch and in the "honeymoon" period that follows, then gradually peter out in the mid and end of their product life cycles. Without a steady diet of new "shock" models, a brand, or even a platform will begin to falter.
Motorola's own fail was being too tied with Verizon. Milestone 2 failed to come out when the coals are hot (Droid 2 was a Verizon exclusive for at least 3 months). The same goes to the Motoroi X, which is the GSM Droid X.
Another Motorola fail is having too many region specific models. There are models of Motorola Androids in China no one in the US ever heard of, like the new cute Ming.
Qualcomm certainly had the 1Ghz advantage for a long time. But HTC did sat on it until Google shoved them with the Nexus One. HTC lost a splendid opportunity putting Android on the HD2---a monster that could have been released in October 2009. They have lost months or even a year to create a significant impact.
I believe the first 45mn OMAP6 went to the Motoroi XT720 and XT800, rated at 720 to 800MHz but underclocked initially at 550Mhz. They were first introduced around March but was never introduced in the US.
HTC Nexus One-Desire-Droid Incredible should be considered as a single platform. The differences of the three have been mostly aesthetic and external. By this account, this platform ranks with the Galaxy S as the most successful.
However, I cannot agree with you that HTC doubled that of Samsung. HTC's own total shipments have been like 3-4 million, then 5-6 million, then 7-8 million, probably 9 million now. That's for all phones. Including their Brew phones, some Windows Phone 7 or legacy Windows Mobile. That includes all their US, China, and international Android models from Desire to EVO.
Yet. the Galaxy S moved about 5 million in about 3 to 4 months. That's one main phone alone though it has its carrier and regional variants. 10 million before the end of the year. The Tab moved about a million in a month. The 3rd quarter of 2010 showed Samsung moving about 9 to 10 million smartphones (including Wave) at a time when HTC moved about 7 to 8 million of its own. At least half of what Samsung moved is just the Galaxy S, the other half are the low end Galaxies, Bada Wave phones, and some Windows phones. The Galaxy S is a tremendous success that no HTC matched, not even the Desire. To say tremendous is an understatement for Samsung who never had truly global success on smartphones of this magnitude.
Android marketing --- and much of mobile marketing --- is based on the concept, "strike the iron when the coals are hot". Or in other words, timely "shock and awe". Phones always sells best during the moment of launch and in the "honeymoon" period that follows, then gradually peter out in the mid and end of their product life cycles. Without a steady diet of new "shock" models, a brand, or even a platform will begin to falter.
Medion
Android Expert
@Guamguy
Since we're debating, I just want to say this first. I think you're a highly intelligent individual and have a great deal of respect for you. I just think that you and I have two different viewpoints on similar issues. So as we continue this lively debate, I ask that we both continue to keep it on the high level we've done so far. I appreciate that you have thus far.
Motorola struck first with Android, but tied themselves to specific carriers. They were also slow to globalize their handsets. They appear to be fixing this trend this year. Good for them.
HTC was the first to start using one base platform on many carriers (N1, Desire, Evo, Incredible, as one example). They're making platforms, as I said it before. But, they are tying themselves to one hardware vendor, and that WILL hurt them.
Samsung showed them how to do it right. Like HTC, they made one platform, and then let the carriers brand it where desired. Unlike HTC, they supported this as one platform (Galaxy S), advertised it, and launched lines of accessories for it. They treated it like it was their own iPhone.
We'll have agree to disagree on sales. I now know I was wrong about the Desire line selling 20 million, based on the below source. HTC sold 20 million smartphones for fiscal 2010. Still, much higher than your 9 million estimate that included non-smartphones.
HTC Looking to Triple Smartphone Sales in 2011
So I think that we can agree that we were both wrong in that you gave a low estimate, I have a high estimate, and the truth was somewhere in the middle.
Looking at their phones announced last night, I want to revise my statement on Moto. They screwed up again. They made 3 different models for 3 different markets, then made them each carrier exclusive to different carriers. Samsung's 1-phone-all-carriers and HTC's 4-phones-many-carriers approaches are better, IMO.
Since we're debating, I just want to say this first. I think you're a highly intelligent individual and have a great deal of respect for you. I just think that you and I have two different viewpoints on similar issues. So as we continue this lively debate, I ask that we both continue to keep it on the high level we've done so far. I appreciate that you have thus far.
To avoid quoting the whole post, I think our cumulative thoughts on Moto, HTC, and Samsung could be summed up as this:
Motorola struck first with Android, but tied themselves to specific carriers. They were also slow to globalize their handsets. They appear to be fixing this trend this year. Good for them.
HTC was the first to start using one base platform on many carriers (N1, Desire, Evo, Incredible, as one example). They're making platforms, as I said it before. But, they are tying themselves to one hardware vendor, and that WILL hurt them.
Samsung showed them how to do it right. Like HTC, they made one platform, and then let the carriers brand it where desired. Unlike HTC, they supported this as one platform (Galaxy S), advertised it, and launched lines of accessories for it. They treated it like it was their own iPhone.
We'll have agree to disagree on sales. I now know I was wrong about the Desire line selling 20 million, based on the below source. HTC sold 20 million smartphones for fiscal 2010. Still, much higher than your 9 million estimate that included non-smartphones.
HTC Looking to Triple Smartphone Sales in 2011
So I think that we can agree that we were both wrong in that you gave a low estimate, I have a high estimate, and the truth was somewhere in the middle.
Maybe, but then you risk flooding the market. Apple's strategy has worked. They release one model with an annual update. HCT's model seems to slightly emulate it. They know that not one-size fits all, so they released 4 core models; Wildfire for the smallish, low-end crowd, Desire for the iphone-esqu crowd; Desire Z for the keyboard lovers; and Desire HD for the big-screen market. But, rather than release them all at once, they staggered them over a 6-8 month window. So, I would say it's safe to say that the "Desire 2" will be announced either by end of CES, or in February in Barcelona where HTC typically does their announcements. It just so happens that HTC's upgrade schedule didn't allow for integrating Tegra 2 (since it's more profitable to port their current HD and Z lineups with existing hardware).
Looking at their phones announced last night, I want to revise my statement on Moto. They screwed up again. They made 3 different models for 3 different markets, then made them each carrier exclusive to different carriers. Samsung's 1-phone-all-carriers and HTC's 4-phones-many-carriers approaches are better, IMO.
Even if HTC sold 20 million smartphones for 2010, it does not change that Samsung beat them in the last two quarters. In fact, Samsung was already 9 to 10 million in the 3rd quarter, and they should be doing better in the 4th. That's like 20 million in half the year.
Bada Wave is actually doing surprisingly good (Windows PHone 7 sales are the ones sucking gas). They probably moved around 5 million since June. The original Wave is one heck of a phone (seen one, handled one) and wished they would have made an Android out of it. Its been followed by cheaper models, plus one model the size of the Galaxy S.
The Tab is doing very well. In roughly the same time period as Windows Phone 7 is selling, one tablet has matched the entire 8 WP7 phone contingent with at least 1.5 million shipments. To be honest, the Tab would be considered a true phone since it does have a true phone voice calling and SMS capability, usable with a real phone SIM.
I know the Galaxy S has been doing well in Japan, where it was introduced in last October. It helped displaced the iPhone 4 off the top 5 best selling phone chart of Japanese mobiles. For the first time ever, all 5 phones in Japan's top selling list are smartphones in November, and then in December, all that top 5 are now Android. (1. Regza, 2. Galaxy S, 3. Lynx 3D, 4. IS04, 5. Galapagos).
Given that, even though figures have not been announced, I'm confident that Samsung overall has overtaken HTC in the smartphone race in numbers. One analyst has placed that Samsung now makes 1/3rd of all Android phones.
Now, the Android aka smartphone market is indeed flooded. This flooding doesn't just affect other Android phones, it affects all smartphones, and everyone, from iPhone to WP7 to Blackberry and Symbian, is feeling this effect. Look at the CES now. Look at Wisefly's best selling phone list (9 out of 10 are Android). Look at Brighthand.com, and look at their list of the most searched and requested articles. Count how many times Androids are now dominating those searches.
I would agree with you about "Desire 2". Been predicting about this model. Basically its an international version of what you call the MyTouch 4G. Just with the "regular" Sense instead of the T-Mobile variation, and made more "generically".
I don't think HTC is upgrading to nVidia and I won't believe it unless they make an official announcement of partnership. They would probably wait for the Qualcomm dual cores for the 2nd half of 2011.
I also agree with you about Motorola's dubious strategy, although I feel that Atrix and Bionic are just members of the same meta-platform that will probably have Motoroi and Milestone equivalents.
Cliq aka Dext, and I would assume Cliq 2 also, are not carier exclusive models though. it was widespread internationally I would expect Cliq 2 to be the same.
But nonetheless, Motorola's strategy isn't that reassuring, and potentially promising (Atrix going to Orange UK and Bell Canada suggests international versions).
In Asia, I find it hard to find a distributor unlocked no contract Motorola smartphone. It seems to get one, you have to sign up with a carrier. I was interested in getting a Milestone 2. Instead, they lost my sale and I pick up a Desire Z instead. HTC, like Samsung, has their own independent network like Nokia where they sell unlocked, no contract phones to distributors and mall stores. Just pay an expensive (but worth it, no contract strings attached) full price for a phone, load your SIM and APN settings, and you're on your way.
Bada Wave is actually doing surprisingly good (Windows PHone 7 sales are the ones sucking gas). They probably moved around 5 million since June. The original Wave is one heck of a phone (seen one, handled one) and wished they would have made an Android out of it. Its been followed by cheaper models, plus one model the size of the Galaxy S.
The Tab is doing very well. In roughly the same time period as Windows Phone 7 is selling, one tablet has matched the entire 8 WP7 phone contingent with at least 1.5 million shipments. To be honest, the Tab would be considered a true phone since it does have a true phone voice calling and SMS capability, usable with a real phone SIM.
I know the Galaxy S has been doing well in Japan, where it was introduced in last October. It helped displaced the iPhone 4 off the top 5 best selling phone chart of Japanese mobiles. For the first time ever, all 5 phones in Japan's top selling list are smartphones in November, and then in December, all that top 5 are now Android. (1. Regza, 2. Galaxy S, 3. Lynx 3D, 4. IS04, 5. Galapagos).
Given that, even though figures have not been announced, I'm confident that Samsung overall has overtaken HTC in the smartphone race in numbers. One analyst has placed that Samsung now makes 1/3rd of all Android phones.
Now, the Android aka smartphone market is indeed flooded. This flooding doesn't just affect other Android phones, it affects all smartphones, and everyone, from iPhone to WP7 to Blackberry and Symbian, is feeling this effect. Look at the CES now. Look at Wisefly's best selling phone list (9 out of 10 are Android). Look at Brighthand.com, and look at their list of the most searched and requested articles. Count how many times Androids are now dominating those searches.
I would agree with you about "Desire 2". Been predicting about this model. Basically its an international version of what you call the MyTouch 4G. Just with the "regular" Sense instead of the T-Mobile variation, and made more "generically".
I don't think HTC is upgrading to nVidia and I won't believe it unless they make an official announcement of partnership. They would probably wait for the Qualcomm dual cores for the 2nd half of 2011.
I also agree with you about Motorola's dubious strategy, although I feel that Atrix and Bionic are just members of the same meta-platform that will probably have Motoroi and Milestone equivalents.
Cliq aka Dext, and I would assume Cliq 2 also, are not carier exclusive models though. it was widespread internationally I would expect Cliq 2 to be the same.
But nonetheless, Motorola's strategy isn't that reassuring, and potentially promising (Atrix going to Orange UK and Bell Canada suggests international versions).
In Asia, I find it hard to find a distributor unlocked no contract Motorola smartphone. It seems to get one, you have to sign up with a carrier. I was interested in getting a Milestone 2. Instead, they lost my sale and I pick up a Desire Z instead. HTC, like Samsung, has their own independent network like Nokia where they sell unlocked, no contract phones to distributors and mall stores. Just pay an expensive (but worth it, no contract strings attached) full price for a phone, load your SIM and APN settings, and you're on your way.