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Our (not so) Great president.
- Thread starter IOWA
- Start date
Charities used to do this. It's not the governments job.So providing basic healthcare to the poor who could not otherwise afford it is communism is it?
I'm done with this thread.
Taking money for the direct benefit of another person is theft. It's imoral to force ME to pay for your abortion; just as it's immoral for me to have to pay to raise it. Personal responsibility MUST be paramount, and, you know Failure IS an option. People MUST fail, or they don't learn.
First, ask "Why are they poor?" If it's because of a physical disability or birth defect - i.e. they are completely UNABLE, then they likely deserve care. I say likely because Physical disability takes many forms. If the guy lost an arm due to some accident then the responsible party should have liability. If the guy lost a liver because he chose to drown it with a liter of whiskey a day...
I'm fine with a guy smoking crack all day, if he wants to and can afford it - just don't want him running to the government so that the jackboots raid my savings to buy him a lung transplant...
trekgraham
Member
I think its amazing how many times Obama said cspan with regards to healthcare bill and transparency that has shown now all lies
Also ever notice how when Obama goes to have a large talk with the nation it tends to disrupt hannity, Beck or oreilly.
We shouldn't be forced to take care of the less fortunate by paying more taxes, if we want to help there's volunteering, donations to charity, and ways around insurance like working with a Local doctor with payment plans and avoiding high cost procedures.
Also ever notice how when Obama goes to have a large talk with the nation it tends to disrupt hannity, Beck or oreilly.
We shouldn't be forced to take care of the less fortunate by paying more taxes, if we want to help there's volunteering, donations to charity, and ways around insurance like working with a Local doctor with payment plans and avoiding high cost procedures.
IOWA
Mr. Logic Pants
.
Did you even read that garbage? Like business's won't be audited, they will be studied!
The government won't decide what's best for, just a "private panel" consisting of president appointed people. And they are just going to "recommend" a treatment.
Or universal machine readable health card?
Sounds a lot like a goverment national id to me.
Or simplify electronic payments through automated debit of your bank account
Sounds like real time bank account access to me
And nobody can sue the government for price fixing? Really? Now the government gets to decide how much doctors get paid? Really?
The government is going to ask doctors to "accept below market rates" . Serious? What about that doesn't just scream wrong. I mean.. with free health care... employers will feel they don't need to provide it anymore.. and drop it. So when medical insurance companies go belly up.. which they will... all doctors will have to accept these "below market" rates. That's not priice fixing? People who dedicated 100000 dollars or more in loans and more than a third of their life suddenly have to accept a pithy government wage?
And it is mandated that everyone must have insurance... and if the government deems yours isn't good enough you must pay 2.5 % GROSS income tax? Wow.
I could pick this crap apart all day...and it sounds like a pretty good summaru to me. You need to learn to |r|e|a|d| . ( I wonder who will understand that lol) seriously though.. you still have not even tried to contribute anything in your favor.. and your debunk site, which also happens to be "coincidence" obama has his hand in the annenburg foundation, which is the primary funder to factcheck.org
Looks like your the one who should read before he posts, monkey.
Did you even read that garbage? Like business's won't be audited, they will be studied!
The government won't decide what's best for, just a "private panel" consisting of president appointed people. And they are just going to "recommend" a treatment.
Or universal machine readable health card?
Sounds a lot like a goverment national id to me.
Or simplify electronic payments through automated debit of your bank account
Sounds like real time bank account access to me
And nobody can sue the government for price fixing? Really? Now the government gets to decide how much doctors get paid? Really?
The government is going to ask doctors to "accept below market rates" . Serious? What about that doesn't just scream wrong. I mean.. with free health care... employers will feel they don't need to provide it anymore.. and drop it. So when medical insurance companies go belly up.. which they will... all doctors will have to accept these "below market" rates. That's not priice fixing? People who dedicated 100000 dollars or more in loans and more than a third of their life suddenly have to accept a pithy government wage?
And it is mandated that everyone must have insurance... and if the government deems yours isn't good enough you must pay 2.5 % GROSS income tax? Wow.
I could pick this crap apart all day...and it sounds like a pretty good summaru to me. You need to learn to |r|e|a|d| . ( I wonder who will understand that lol) seriously though.. you still have not even tried to contribute anything in your favor.. and your debunk site, which also happens to be "coincidence" obama has his hand in the annenburg foundation, which is the primary funder to factcheck.org
Looks like your the one who should read before he posts, monkey.
Oh yeah.
Let's put proof to the LIE.
"no tax increases for the middle class... people who make under (moving target number here -- something between 200 and 250k...per year)...
My "pay" did not get any increase (crappy economy and all that...) last year. So, easy comparison...
Federal Income Tax Deduction 12/24/2009 = $115.57
Federal Income Tax Deduction 01/08/2010 = $123.16
Mind you,while that seems small to some the first part of that paycheck was 12/27-12/31 (5 days of last year... at last years tax rate...)
-$20 per pay period... that's change I can live to hate...
That's family pizza night shot to hell.
Let's put proof to the LIE.
"no tax increases for the middle class... people who make under (moving target number here -- something between 200 and 250k...per year)...
My "pay" did not get any increase (crappy economy and all that...) last year. So, easy comparison...
Federal Income Tax Deduction 12/24/2009 = $115.57
Federal Income Tax Deduction 01/08/2010 = $123.16
Mind you,while that seems small to some the first part of that paycheck was 12/27-12/31 (5 days of last year... at last years tax rate...)
-$20 per pay period... that's change I can live to hate...
That's family pizza night shot to hell.
.
Did you even read that garbage? Like business's won't be audited, they will be studied!
The government won't decide what's best for, just a "private panel" consisting of president appointed people. And they are just going to "recommend" a treatment.
Or universal machine readable health card?
Sounds a lot like a goverment national id to me.
Or simplify electronic payments through automated debit of your bank account
Sounds like real time bank account access to me
And nobody can sue the government for price fixing? Really? Now the government gets to decide how much doctors get paid? Really?
The government is going to ask doctors to "accept below market rates" . Serious? What about that doesn't just scream wrong. I mean.. with free health care... employers will feel they don't need to provide it anymore.. and drop it. So when medical insurance companies go belly up.. which they will... all doctors will have to accept these "below market" rates. That's not priice fixing? People who dedicated 100000 dollars or more in loans and more than a third of their life suddenly have to accept a pithy government wage?
And it is mandated that everyone must have insurance... and if the government deems yours isn't good enough you must pay 2.5 % GROSS income tax? Wow.
I could pick this crap apart all day...and it sounds like a pretty good summaru to me. You need to learn to |r|e|a|d| . ( I wonder who will understand that lol
Looks like your the one who should read before he posts, monkey.
It is humerous, if not pathetic, that you complain about the potential for partisanship in a source debunking an anonymously written chain e-mail.
I'm not sure that you understand (or care) what is in my favor. I'm not sure that you understand what is even in your favor.
Seriously. It is easy to see that I won't have a real discussion with you. Your posts make it abundantly clear that you are far more interested in freeperbation than understanding a different point of view. To have a real discussion, you would need to some integrity.
People who knee-jerkedly paste off anything that they see that confirms their worst bias, regardless of the likelyhood of truth; people who do not cite their sources or cite anonymous sources; people who know that they are wrong about something but don't fix it. These are not the sort of people with whom one can have a rational conversation.
I touched the waters a few times and have found that this thread is more of a violent cesspool. For some odd reason, I like it. I've found that it's quite entertaining to find out what nauseous smell will bubble up from the more rabid posts in this thread.
That's great! I can just see your family sitting down to pizza and Obama steps in with a Tommy-gun blasting the pizza full of holes. Kids run off crying, parents to shocked to console them.
You should get Quentin Tarantino to direct it as a PAC funded ad.
You don't understand much, do you.
I make less than 250k.
Obama promised no increase in taxes for people who make less than 250k
My taxes went up. Promise Broken. Obama LIED!
And, the increase is more than my kids school lunches, so I guess Nobama thinks my kid does not need lunch anymore....
John
I make less than 250k.
Obama promised no increase in taxes for people who make less than 250k
My taxes went up. Promise Broken. Obama LIED!
And, the increase is more than my kids school lunches, so I guess Nobama thinks my kid does not need lunch anymore....
John
IOWA
Mr. Logic Pants
It appears to me you are the one who cannot hold a rational discussion. While I've done nothing but provide evidence to prove my case, you can't come back with a real rebuttle, so you turn to flameing and spewing rhetoric. It is quite childish IMO.
It is a fact Obama does have his hands in the annenburg foundation, which in turn does own, operate, and fund factcheck.org.
And if you really feel government run healthcare is in your favor, then move to another country. That is not capitalism. That in turn is not patriotism. Seems to me people who are willing to contribute to society, and work for their dinner see it the same way I do. The way patriots do, and understand the importance of free enterprise.
If you can't be mature, and not post flames simply because you can't prove your point, or provide viable evidence in your favor, then I will respectfully ask you to not take part in this discussion.
It is good to debate, it makes those of us contributing learn more, and do more research. Another thing to me is most if not all of the obama supporters in this thread, and in general, have resorted to childish name-calling, and when they get shot down, even more name calling. Another coincidence? I am still reading the 1000 some odd page plan, and the more I read it the more I am in disgust. I am forming my own logical conclusion, and while a "chain email" may have sparked my interest, my thoughts are exactly that, my thoughts. And if healthcare was so unaffordable, why do I see healthcare plans, good ones, averaging about $100 per month. That is less than what the majority of us pay for cable/internet packages, or even a cell phone bill. If you can afford your monthly phone bill, you can afford healthcare. Sounds to me like you just want a free ride, and need to rearrange your priorities. You are not entitled to anything but what you work for.
And I don't want a government panel "recommending" what treatment I should receive, that is a doctors job.
I don't want doctors who will be underpaid cutting corners to treat me and my future family to make up for the losses from a underpaid "government healthcare" option. If you want that for yourself it appears you don't know what in YOUR favor.
Another thought, how much integrity can someone have if they insist another individual doesn't have integrity for voicing his opinion, a first amendment right, backed evidence/facts in his favor, while providing little to none of his own, and flaming those who don't agree with him. That just shows a lack of integrity.
And truley, if you can't afford a healthcare plan, perhaps you should spend less time on internet forums flaming people and find another job, or a way to earn more money. Or cancel your internet connection, after all, internet is not a necessity either, it is a luxury. Or is internet access a right too?
Edit:
Also, I do not need to cite my sources. If you truely want to learn you will do your own research.
Saying false things does not make them true. Using others opinions as the basis of an argument makes for a very weak argument unless the "other" is an expert at making that opinion. Attributing assertions that I did not make to me does not make them my assertions.
Unfortunately, I think that you really think that you are being reasonable. You are not. Do your own research on that.
Under, mate... Significantly Under. and I have 3 kids, 1 in college, and my wife does not work outside the home... $20 is HUGE.
The pizza ad thing was a joke.
It's a little odd that you would use your paycheck to figure out your tax rate when the rates are published. My Fed deduction was a little lower, but my pretax expenses increased a little (much larger HSA set aside this year). Did you verify that your pretax items did not affect the amount?
I did a quick search for 2009 vs 2020 rates and found this:
2009 versus 2010 Federal Income Tax Bracket Tables and Standard Deduction Changes
if the info there is correct (and I don't really want to spend the time to verify it), your Federal income tax went down.
IOWA
Mr. Logic Pants
Just wanted to thank you for proving my point. Instead of producing evidence or a decent thought up rebuttle, you spew rhetoric. Game, sets. Match.
Now I would realy like to know, how, exactly, in detail, am I being unreasonable?
Is this the part where you say something like "true things are not false" or "a lie is not the truth"
Hi everyone! My first post here, just registered as I am going to by an android phone soon.
Anyway i thought some different views of socialism might be in place. It isn't strictly on the subject but seems to be relevant to the arguments.
I live in Sweden (Europe) which with your measures clearly is a SUPERsocialist country. We have 7 political parties as of now and all of them are way more left wing then both of your parties (there is a number of parties that doesn
Anyway i thought some different views of socialism might be in place. It isn't strictly on the subject but seems to be relevant to the arguments.
I live in Sweden (Europe) which with your measures clearly is a SUPERsocialist country. We have 7 political parties as of now and all of them are way more left wing then both of your parties (there is a number of parties that doesn
momoceio
Android Expert
Because most Americans are greedy, selfish bastards. We can only hope that we don't get another George Bush type in office. Besides our government though, our country as a whole has a terrible attitude toward the rest of the world. I love my country, but I'm still saddened by the many downfalls we currently have.
rjoudrey
Android Expert
Can anyone buy me an airplane ticket to Sweden I have been unemployed for two years thanks to wall street.
Funny, being a brunette some Swedish friends told me to move there years ago, I would get plenty of chicks.
Little did I know I would get a free education, great job and a beautiful blond girl.
Funny, being a brunette some Swedish friends told me to move there years ago, I would get plenty of chicks.
Little did I know I would get a free education, great job and a beautiful blond girl.
SamuraiBigEd
Under paid Sasquatch!
A big part of the American public's disdain for Socialism is the fact that it is the "gateway drug" to Communism. If it is not controlled it can easily make the leap, and that is usually at the hands of the people in power.
I am all for helping my fellow man, but too often it is twisted and warped by the crooked politicians here to serve a different purpose. Also, there is a huge portion of the people who receive this assistance that are merely taking advantage of the system. If safeguards where put into place to prevent that from happening it would do a lot towards improving peoples view of the system and Socialism.
I am all for helping my fellow man, but too often it is twisted and warped by the crooked politicians here to serve a different purpose. Also, there is a huge portion of the people who receive this assistance that are merely taking advantage of the system. If safeguards where put into place to prevent that from happening it would do a lot towards improving peoples view of the system and Socialism.
Crude
Android Expert
What no one seems to understand is that MY money is MINE. I do not want to pay for your health inshurance, your education, your lack of foresight or your lack of ambition. It's not fair that you go to school on my money and become a doctor and then keep all the money you make. If I want to loan you money I will do so on my own merit and you will pay me what I loaned you plus interest. If you want braces then you pay for them, if you want to retire then put money aside until the day you retire.
I do not expect anyone to pay for me and I certainly loath the fact that I am paying for anyone else. If you are an able bodied person you should not be getting a dime from the government.
Why is this so bad? I think it's fair?
I do not expect anyone to pay for me and I certainly loath the fact that I am paying for anyone else. If you are an able bodied person you should not be getting a dime from the government.
Why is this so bad? I think it's fair?
Caloy
Android Expert
Not too many Americans know the advantages as well as the disadvantages of Socialism to care. Most think it's a bad thing and just dismiss it as such. For me, the benefits out weigh the disadvantages. I think Obama is on the right track for healthcare reform. I believe that the US is not a Government of the people, for the people and by the people, but of the private sector, for the corporation and by the lobbyist. 