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RNC 2012 uproar

A.Nonymous said:
But it's still scripted. It's just as scripted as the Republicans. Four years ago there was no incumbent and it was still scripted and people were bitching about the fact that super delegates can vote for whomever they please. Now people are are bitching about how the Republicans are closing loopholes that let their delegates do the same thing essentially and saying the Republicans should've closed them years ago. It's ridiculous hypocrisy.
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I'm not complaining about that. US political parties really need to tighten up and get a whip system to end the current mess.
 
A.Nonymous said:
... Remember the whole superdelegate thing from four years ago? That was all because those delegates aren't legally bound.
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No. The DNC 2008 candidate was decided well before the convention.

Superdelegate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

At the 2008 Democratic National Convention, the superdelegates made up approximately one-fifth of the total number of delegates. The closeness of the race between the leading contenders, Hillary Rodham Clinton and Barack Obama, led to speculation that the superdelegates would play a decisive role in selecting the nominee, a prospect that caused unease among some Democratic Party leaders.[13] Obama, however, won a majority of the pledged delegates[14] and of the superdelegates, and won the Democratic presidential nomination.[15]
 
OutofDate1980 said:
No. The DNC 2008 candidate was decided well before the convention.

Superdelegate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

At the 2008 Democratic National Convention, the superdelegates made up approximately one-fifth of the total number of delegates. The closeness of the race between the leading contenders, Hillary Rodham Clinton and Barack Obama, led to speculation that the superdelegates would play a decisive role in selecting the nominee, a prospect that caused unease among some Democratic Party leaders.[13] Obama, however, won a majority of the pledged delegates[14] and of the superdelegates, and won the Democratic presidential nomination.[15]
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The same thing that happened this year. The same thing that has happened every year since the mid 70s. Nevertheless there was talk that Clinton might sway enough of the super-delegates to her side that there might be some sort of brokered convention. Before the convention it became obvious that was not going to happen. Same thing happened this year with the GOP. There was talk that Paul might somehow be able to sway enough delegates to deny Romney the nomination. It became clear before the convention that was not going to happen. The GOP closed a loophole that caused the speculation in the first place and the Dems criticize them for not closing it earlier even though they have a loophole of their own.
 
A.Nonymous said:
The same thing that happened this year. The same thing that has happened every year since the mid 70s. Nevertheless there was talk that Clinton might sway enough of the super-delegates to her side that there might be some sort of brokered convention. Before the convention it became obvious that was not going to happen. Same thing happened this year with the GOP. There was talk that Paul might somehow be able to sway enough delegates to deny Romney the nomination. It became clear before the convention that was not going to happen. The GOP closed a loophole that caused the speculation in the first place and the Dems criticize them for not closing it earlier even though they have a loophole of their own.
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Closing the loophole was a good thing. Doing it right before the convention to ensure a victory be 1 canidate over an other is shameful.

Much in the same way as purging legally registered voters from the rolls right before an election with knowledge they won't get it straitened out in time to vote.
 
Ron Paul was not going to win. The rule change goes in place next cycle, not this one unless I'm mistaken.
 
Seems to me the issue was it went into affect now and that is how they replaced the state delegates with hand picked party delegates chosen by the the national party.

Paul has never had a chance because the party leaders oppose him not because the people do.
 
PH8AL said:
Seems to me the issue was it went into affect now and that is how they replaced the state delegates with hand picked party delegates chosen by the the national party.

Paul has never had a chance because the party leaders oppose him not because the people do.
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Umm, Paul did not win the popular vote in a single primary. So it's pretty clear the people aren't exactly on his side.
 
A.Nonymous said:
Democratic delegates aren't bound either. Remember the whole superdelegate thing from four years ago? That was all because those delegates aren't legally bound.
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The controversy at the 2012 RNC had nothing to do with Super delegates. Both parties Super delegates are still not legally bound, but are uncommitted.

Ron Paul supporters come up short in rules fight

"Amidst a contentious scene on the floor of the convention, House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) ruled that the committee rules had passed by a voice vote
 
Those changes now make the GOP strikingly different from the Democratic party where delegates (in some states) are not bound by primary voting. What Paul did (winning delegates without ever winning a primary) could no longer happen in the GOP but could happen to the Democrats. So Democrats are bashing Republicans for not doing this earlier while ignoring the fact that their party rules are the same as the GOP rules before the change.
 
A.Nonymous said:
Those changes now make the GOP strikingly different from the Democratic party where delegates (in some states) are not bound by primary voting. What Paul did (winning delegates without ever winning a primary) could no longer happen in the GOP but could happen to the Democrats. So Democrats are bashing Republicans for not doing this earlier while ignoring the fact that their party rules are the same as the GOP rules before the change.
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Paul played by the then rules and won some delegates when the delegates were actually selected.

Stop making things up, the RNC is now more similar to the DNC, except DNC delegates are proportional to the vote (primaries or caucuses) , i.e., no winner take all, but candidate must receive 15% of vote to get any delegates.

The big difference is the DNC make rules at the convention, RNC now can make up rules without a delegate vote anytime the party leaders feel like it. Unelected elite (Super Delegates) rules RNC.
 
"Growth is the philosophy of the cancer cell" - I think that was Edward Abbey.

Alan Watts said that the Great Depression was like you showing up for work and all the materials to do your job are there but the boss sends you home because "we're out of inches". Money is a measurement.

Here's an interesting article on GDP:
http://harpers.org/archive/2008/06/0082042
 
OutofDate1980 said:
Paul played by the then rules and won some delegates when the delegates were actually selected.

Stop making things up, the RNC is now more similar to the DNC, except DNC delegates are proportional to the vote (primaries or caucuses) , i.e., no winner take all, but candidate must receive 15% of vote to get any delegates.

The big difference is the DNC make rules at the convention, RNC now can make up rules without a delegate vote anytime the party leaders feel like it. Unelected elite (Super Delegates) rules RNC.
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Except that it's not more similar. The rules in the RNC now make the selection of delegates reflect the voting in the primaries. The rules in the DNC don't do that as well. Depending on the rules of the state, delegates can be selected that don't reflect the voting in the primaries at all. That was the loophole that Paul and his organization exploited. That loophole still exists in the DNC rules.
 
A.Nonymous said:
Except that it's not more similar. The rules in the RNC now make the selection of delegates reflect the voting in the primaries. The rules in the DNC don't do that as well. Depending on the rules of the state, delegates can be selected that don't reflect the voting in the primaries at all. That was the loophole that Paul and his organization exploited. That loophole still exists in the DNC rules.
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I provide sources that disagree with your statement, do you have a source that supports your statement ?

It's a moot point, as now the RNC leadership can change the method of delegate selection at will.
 
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