Should the UK leave the EU?

[Deleted User]

You may be aware that here in the UK, there will be a referendum to ask the public if the UK should remain part of the European Union.

Obviously there are a lot of issues, both economical and political and it's a complex decision. I suspect those politicians in favour just want more power.
As to whether we will be better off economically if we're out, I don't know. I think we give a lot of money in subsidies to the EU, but not sure of the exact figures.
I personally don't think I have enough information to make this decision, but what I do know is that before the EU we had two world wars due to political problems between countries. Since the EU, we've had peace among the member states.

Is there any interest in this issue in the US? Apparently Obama is in favour of the UK staying in the EU.

What do you think? I'm really short on information, so need to do a lot more research into the possible pros and cons. I really don't know what effect it will have on my daily life.

 

[AZgl1500]

From the 'USA' perspective, I have not been following that subject very much. Although I have been aware of it just by reading the World News almost daily.

As for Obuma, I do NOT trust anything that comes out of his mouth.... he lied to get in office, and he has been a habitual liar ever since... he is a sociopath and can't tell the truth if he wanted to.

There are a lot of us who believe that he has caused far more damage to our country than all of the previous presidents combined.

but..... I can see some advantages for the UK to remain in the EU, fiscal stability of course tops the list...
The economy is a "world wide item", and if the price of an item can remain stable from country to country, and from 'year to year', it helps everyone...

but, if one country suffers badly in the "gross national product", it puts a strain on the other participants to support the loss of income for that one country... I forget the country near Italy that has been bankrupt now for over 2 years, IIRC, Germany has been a heavy provider of bank funds to keep them afloat?

Here in the USA, we have very large cities that have gone Bankrupt.... Detroit comes to mind, and there have been a few others also. Horrible Stagflation in those areas. Property values plummet, and people move out because they have lost their jobs.... the homes and business properties, fall apart and are torn up by gangs who run rampant w/o enough police to keep the properties safe. ( a bankrupt city can't afford a good police force )

Supporting other countries is a subject that is under heavy discussion right here in the USA.... I personally feel that we should just back out of the middle east and let it fall into a nuclear crater.... the world would be better off.
If the money the USA has wasted in Iran/Iraq ( over the past 15 years ) had been spent on keeping our USA citizens in good health, I believe the whole world would have been a better place, AND we would not be Trillions of Dollars in Debt!

The north African nations have been at war for over 2,000 years, how in the hell does anyone think that an outsider country can stop that?

.

I didn't vote, as I am an outsider, and I don't feel that I have enough info to vote wisely.

 

[Deleted User]

but, if one country suffers badly in the "gross national product", it puts a strain on the other participants to support the loss of income for that one country... I forget the country near Italy that has been bankrupt now for over 2 years, IIRC, Germany has been a heavy provider of bank funds to keep them afloat?

That is Greece, and a consequence (I think) of them being in the Eurozone and having a weak economy. I don't pretend to understand the financials, but they have received a lot of monetary bail outs from the stronger countries.
The UK is not even in the Eurozone, we kept our own currency, so we're actually not fully committed to the EU anyway.

 

[AZgl1500]

Tnx for clearing that up.

now that you mention it, I do recall that the UK kept their own currency.

 

[michaelkenward]

...I don't feel that I have enough info to vote wisely.

You can say that again.

 

[Deleted User]

I didn't vote, as I am an outsider, and I don't feel that I have enough info to vote wisely.

You know, I live here and feel exactly the same. I just think this is such a complex issue that not many people in the general population could actually vote wisely.
Honestly, sometimes democracy is frightening, in that a major decision like this is left to the general public, voting by knee jerk reactions.

 

[Deleted User]

Well just a little update, for those who have a passing interest in this. The British prime minister David Cameron has just brokered a 'deal' with the EU leaders which he hopes will persuade the British people to vote yes to staying in the EU, in the upcoming referendum which will take place in June.

Judging by the reaction on social media, people of other European nationalities aren't too impressed with the concessions to GB in this deal. Kind of like cherry picking the best bits of being in the EU I think. But the other leaders seem desperate to keep us in, I wonder why that is? Possibly because we do contribute a heck of a lot to the EU. But I suppose that's fair enough, in a union of Countries the stronger ones should support the weaker ones.

 

[SiempreTuna]

I think many of the key EU leaders - the French, particularly - would be glad to see the back of us, the problem is that it would encourage the anti-EU elements in other skeptical countries - Hungary, Poland, Denmark - and no-one with any sense wants to risk the break up the EU.

From a UK perspective, there is no argument for leaving that cannot be utterly discredited with but a moments thought.

The main reasons given for leaving are that we have to comply with EU regulations; that we have to contribute to the EU budget and we have to allow the free migration of EU people.

The EU is responsible for around 60% of our international trade. It's about to sign TTIP which is an agreement with NAFTA that effectively means the EU will be joined by US, Canada and Mexico. The US is our second biggest trading partner with 15% of international trade so the EU and friends will soon represent over 75% of our international trade. The US has already said that it will not negotiate a trade deal with the UK if the UK leaves the EU - so bye-bye most favoured nation status.

Unfortunately, we cannot survive without international trade - literally, cannot survive as we import around half of our food and have done since Victoria was on the throne. Without the foreign currency EU trade gives us, we would not be able to buy anything from elsewhere.

What that all means is that we have to have a trade deal with the EU. One the key raisons d'etre of the EU is to give it clout in trade negotiations so the terms of any trade deal would be entirely dictated by the EU. The idea that we are too big for them to be tough on us in nonsense - quite apart from anything, we would have lost Scotland and it's oil by then so we wouldn't be anywhere near as big anyway.

The best we could hope for is a deal like Norway's.

Remember those first two arguments for leaving? Not having to conform to EU regs and not having to give the EU money?

Well, Norway currently conforms more closely with EU regulations than any other country - including all the countries in the EU - and it's one of the EU's biggest net contributors (despite it's tiny population). It just has zero say in what the regulations are or how the money's spent.

That leaves the migration nonsense.

News flash: migration's actually really good for our economy. Even if you ignore the looming demographic crisis (remember that?), it is almost impossible to find a legitimate study that does not clearly show that immigration is good for the economy. Look at ours: apparently we've had the highest EU immigration ever over the last couple of years and at the same time we've had one of the highest growth rates in the developed world. Not just that, but unemployment has been falling dramatically.

Then there's the positive effect EU immigrants have on our current account deficit.

The average non-immigrant costs the government £9K more per year than they contribute in taxes (that shortfall is the deficit). The figure for non-EU migrants is slightly worse. EU immigrants on the other hand, pay around £7K more per year than they cost.

Given our deficit is now worse than that of Greece, Spain or Eire, we basically can't afford for them to leave.

I could go on and on (I think I may already have), but one last point: the likes of UKIP point to this mythical time before we joined the EEC when we strode the economic world majestically, our thriving economy the envy of all. Utter BS. Our position before we joined the EEC was on our knees begging to be allowed in - as we had been for over a decade while de Gaulle delighted in refusing us.

The UK economy did reasonably well after WWII because the world was rebuilding and would buy pretty much anything anyone could make. That was long over by the late 60s and we were suddenly faced with real competition for the first time in two centuries: we no longer ruled the waves and we no longer had the world's biggest empire that we could effectively force to buy our goods and services.

Basically, we were absolutely desperate to get into the EEC - and everyone knew it.

You really think Ted Heath negotiated the deal he got from a position of strength? We were so weak, the EEC negotiators were basically taking the mickey, literally throwing in major new conditions right up to the last minute.

All that's changed since then is that the EU is now vastly more important to us economically than it was then - and with TTIP, it will be even more so.

Leaving would be utter madness.

 

[Deleted User]

Makes a lot of sense @SiempreTuna. My worries were about trade, I wasn't aware of that trade deal with the US and Canada.
But there are currently trade deals with our other Euro partners. If we left, all the deals would have to be re-negotiated, across all industries. This could take years. And at the end of it, there's no guarantee we would be in as good, or better position. In fact chances are we'd be worse, because there would be little compulsion for other countries to deal with us. I mean given two companies providing the same product/service, a potential customer is more likely to choose the local option aren't they? We could be discriminated against, and there's diddly-squat we could do about it.

 

[Deleted User]

Well this EU referendum debacle has sunk to a new low.
Sadly, a politician has now been killed by some maniac with a knife and gun. Thoughts go out to the family, over this senseless killing.

 

[Gmash]

Well this EU referendum debacle has sunk to a new low.
Sadly, a politician has now been killed by some maniac with a knife and gun. Thoughts go out to the family, over this senseless killing.

So sad and ridiculous. Only 41 and a mother of 2. The killer sounds like the British equivalent of a Trump supporter. I think if the "Brexit" passes, The Brits would be shooting themselves in the foot. If they ruin the European economy, and possibly set off a global recession, how will that help? I understand some of the frustrations, but hopefully cooler heads will prevail, and people are able to look at the big picture.

 

[bjacks12]

I used to think yes, the UK should leave, but then decided since I'm not British, it ain't my place to say.

 

[Deleted User]

I used to think yes, the UK should leave, but then decided since I'm not British, it ain't my place to say.

Well you have a perfect right to an opinion, I have one on Trump

Anyway, it's polling day. Let's hope the British public make the right decision.

 

[bjacks12]

Good luck to y'all and I hope whatever happens it works out well for you.

 

[Gmash]

Wow, they actually did it. The UK is out, markets are plummeting, and Cameron has announced his resignation. Let's hope the long term effects are not as dire as feared. There is talk that the UK could fall apart, with Scotland and Ireland leaving for the EU. Good luck to you guys.

 

[psionandy]

I am so sorry... For the global meltdown that the rest of the world is about to suffer...

We're going to suffer more... But that's not your fault.

 

[Deleted User]

Wow, they actually did it. The UK is out, markets are plummeting, and Cameron has announced his resignation. Let's hope the long term effects are not as dire as feared. There is talk that the UK could fall apart, with Scotland and Ireland leaving for the EU. Good luck to you guys.

Disastrous result, and a decision which should not have been left to the general public. Cameron you bloody idiot!

 

[Deleted User]

I am so sorry... For the global meltdown that the rest of the world is about to suffer...

We're going to suffer more... But that's not your fault.

On the plus side Andy, there's £350m a week available to build new local health services, and schools. So looking forward to that happening very soon!

 

[Deleted User]

The problem we have now is that the financial effects are immediate, catastrophic, and of unknown duration. Whereas the perceived benefits will take years to materialise. Have the leave voters taken that into consideration?!

 

[Gmash]

The phrase about cutting off your nose to spite your face comes to mind. Let's hope America doesn't suffer our own version of this with Trump.

 

[psionandy]

On the plus side Andy, there's £350m a week available to build new local health services, and schools. So looking forward to that happening very soon!

Nigel Farrage has been on TV this morning explaining how that was a lie.. Pity he didn't mention that when he was campaigning for the leave campaign.

 

[Deleted User]

Nigel Farrage has been on TV this morning explaining how that was a lie.. Pity he didn't mention that when he was campaigning for the leave campaign.

Isn't it? I think this sums things up nicely

 

[Deleted User]

Given that the most googgled inquiry from the UK after the referendum was "what is the EU?" it would seem that many voters didn't take very much into consideration...

You're absolutely right, and judging by the interviews I've seen with people who voted leave, this referendum has exposed some very bigoted and racist views. I thought as a nation, we were better than that.

Most of the reasons I've heard from people justifying their vote have been quite frankly, absolute garbage.

They were brainwashed with headline grabbing and misleading slogans like, "we give £350m a week to the EU, let's spend it on the NHS" (health service).

I've always thought that a political decision of this magnitude should not have been put to the general public.

 

[Deleted User]

Or maybe Little Britain.. no wait, that's something different

 

[Deleted User]

Here's something I saw on FB, and as the Brexit crew don't seem to have any kind of plan, it's the best I've seen..

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Right. **** this. We're ALL up shit creek and we need a paddle. Now, not in three months.

Fellow Remain voters: Enough already. Yes, we're all pissed off but navel gazing ain't gonna help. Not all 17 million Leave voters can possibly be racist northern pensioners without an O level to their name. Maybe they have a point about this quitting the EU thing? Maybe not. Whatever, we are where we are and no amount a whinging is gonna change that. Allegedly we're the intelligent ones, so get your thinking caps on.

Leave voters. Well done. Good game. We hear you. Now you need to get stuck in to the aftermath and not just piss off back to Wetherspoons. (Just banter, twats!). And the first person to say they "want their country back" gets deported to ****ing Gibraltar. OK?

Politicians.

David. **** off. Shut the door behind you. Now.

George. You may be a twat but you're our twat. Plus you know the passwords for our Junior Savers account. Get your calculator. Drop the face-like-a-slapped-ass routine. You're on.

Boris. Sorry mate. That photo of you abseiling by your scrotum over the London Olympics while waving a Union Jack can't ever be un-taken. Plus, you'll never be able to appear on Question Time again without some sturdy Glaswegian nurse asking where the **** her 350 million quid is. Not only will she have a very good point, she'll be wearing a T shirt that shows you gurning in front of that ****ing bus! No captains hat for you I'm afraid.

Theresa. You're in charge love. Get the biggest shoulder pads you've got. We need Ming The Merciless in drag and you'll scare the shit out of 'em.

Nicola. Yep. Fair cop. You probably could get us on a technicality, as could London. But we ****ing love shortbread. And oil. And to be honest you're probably the best politician we've got, so we need you on side. Sort your lot out and we promise never to mention that Jimmy Krankie thing again (although it is pretty uncanny) and we'll make you a Dame once we're sorted. Bring Ruth Davidson. She kicks ass.

Opposition party. We'll need one. Someone take Jeremy and John back to the British Legion Club where you found them. Take Nigel as well. Give back their sandals, buy them a pint, then go to Heathrow and collect David Milliband. **** it. Lets gets Ed Balls as well. He keeps George on his toes. I think he works on the lottery kiosk at Morrisons now?

Oh. And Mark Carney. Give him a knighthood and tell him to keep that shit coming. We definitely need more of that good shit!

Everyone set? Right. Hold the Easyjet. We're going to Brussels and this ain't no hen party.

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