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The lineage of Windows. Good bad and ugly.

I cut my programming teeth on TRS-DOS, ended up working on 24-bit mainframes running Vulcan OS with several nested environments for a living.

I was a hard-drive mechanic, as in I physically replaced platters and aligned heads.

I have worked with nearly every flavor of Windows, as well as OS2, and several esoteric command-line environments most people have never heard of.

I have been a Linux user for some six years or so, and Mint 15 is my current favorite.

I hacked the hell out of Win 95/98, did so with XP to some extent and hated Vista because it is so antagonistic toward power users. Win 7 is nearly as bad. I have only had Windows 8 for a couple weeks, now, and my first order of business was to get Mint 15 installed alongside 8.

That is not an easy process, which blame lays primarily on Microsoft, who have enjoyed a virtual monopoly in the OS market for what, 25 years now? They have been allowed to play many of the dirty tricks that were outlawed at the beginning of the last century, in the age of the great industrialists.

I must say, however, much as Windows products are a pain in some respects and I am certainly not a fan of the cost, without Bill Gates and Microsoft, we would not be enjoying the level of computing technology we currently have.
 
My first dealings with computers started with a Texas Instruments TI-99 4/A Home Computer and tons of Atari game ports, such as Alpiner and TI-Invaders or Hunt the Wumpus.

In second grade, the school computers were all Apple //e and IIgs computers, the most popular game being Oregon Trail from MECC. i remember wanting one of those futuristic IIgs machines for a long time, but my parents said it was not possible on their budget.

eventually i got my first PC, a IBM Personal Computer XT, model 5150. 20MB MFM stepper motor hard drive, full-height 5.25" Low density floppy disk. it had some sort of custom GUI that i later deleted and replaced with the DOS command line, which most of the games i played then needed, as it didn't have enough 'conventional' RAM to run within the GUI's DOS prompt. the closest thing to Internet access at the time was Prodigy Service, a pretty much AOL of the day.

my second PC was my dad's aging 386DX/33, built custom from a local now-defunct chain known as Trinity Computers. it got me into dial-up Internet and web browsing via AOL for the first time. they threw out the old XT and gave me that computer because the hard drive was so darn loud that it kept them up at night as i would often compute till the dawn.

the first 'new' computer after that was an IBM PS/1. a 486SX/66, 128MB Hard drive, and two floppy drives, one a half-height 5.25" high density drive and a 3.5" drive. the 5.25" eventually got replaced with a double-speed CD-ROM drive and SoundBlaster sound card.

I had played with everything from ProDOS (Apple at school) to DOS, to CP/M, SCO UNIX (work computer), and Windows from version 3.0 to current. i vaguely remember Windows 95's start me up ads. Windows ME was a failure. my first dealings with XP were headaches. My Favorite version overall was Windows 98. it was simple, booted fast, and seemed the most stable in my experience, especially SP2, and i was able to keep it alive on new hardware long enough to hack Flash 10 to work on it, which gave me some of the Facebook games and access to Hulu and Youtube until they required Flash 11, which had no self extracting archive so i couldn't copy the bare files to Firefox/plugins anymore.
 
Codegerm said:
What?! Your school didn't have the RadioShack TRS-80 models 2,3, and 4?
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Apple has been gifting schools with their computers right from the beginning... one of the reasons the Macintosh caught on as it did (and led to the current revolution in iStuff).

It is, therefore, not surprising at all that he cut his eye-teeth on a IIgs.
 
Dngrsone said:
Apple has been gifting schools with their computers right from the beginning... one of the reasons the Macintosh caught on as it did (and led to the current revolution in iStuff).

It is, therefore, not surprising at all that he cut his eye-teeth on a IIgs.
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We didn't have a Mac until my junior year in high school. We had an entire classroom of TRS-80 3's and 4's networked to a hard drive that was bigger than my tower PC (I think is was all of 10 Meg). We also had 5 dumb terminals connected to the school board's IBM mainframe (probably a 4300 series).

For personal I used a Timex Sinclair 1000, TI99-4a, Most of the Commodore line: Pet,vic-20,c-64, and Amiga. then I started the DOS boxes. lol
 
Codegerm said:
For personal I used a Timex Sinclair 1000, TI99-4a, Most of the Commodore line: Pet,vic-20,c-64, and Amiga. then I started the DOS boxes. lol
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I had quite the C64 rig-- dual drives, the Commodore monitor was pretty awesome (coupled with a VCR it was also my TV)... I hacked the hell out of the Commodore DOS.
 
High School had some older then-way-obsolete TRS-80 monochrome computers, but usually for the purpose of special ed. i did get to play some Math Football on them once. but not long after that they got replaced with then-new Compaq Deskpro P100MHz models. this also was the first time i experienced broadband speeds, but only via a rather expensive T1 line the school hooked up via token ring. (the year was 1998) the Web then wasn't much, and the latest browser was Netscape Navigator 2.x, and they never upgraded to Windows 95 or 98 during my time there. when i graduated they were still using the dated Windows 3.1

My High school years were one of two times a school was Apple-free. middle school had Tandy 1000s, and high school had a vast assortment of old and new machines. the typing classes had Sanyo XTs, for the purpose of using Mavis Beacon's typing software, the library ran 8088s off a network boot, using Novell Netware 3.x, monochrome monitors and used specifically as an electronic card catalog. an old Zenith XT was spotted a few times in the guidance office, with a fireworks screensaver. i never knew what it was used for. the library internet computers were then-new IBM PS/Valuepoints, a huge variant of the PS/1 and ran similar hardware. graphic arts classes ran CorelDRAW! on 486 machines, and a few half-cocked put together Pentiums. a IBM PS/2 or two were used in Tech Ed to run Sim City's first incarnation, and another used to run the CNC lathe.
 
nickdalzell said:
High School had some older then-way-obsolete TRS-80 monochrome computers, but usually for the purpose of special ed. i did get to play some Math Football on them once. but not long after that they got replaced with then-new Compaq Deskpro P100MHz models. this also was the first time i experienced broadband speeds, but only via a rather expensive T1 line the school hooked up via token ring. (the year was 1998) the Web then wasn't much, and the latest browser was Netscape Navigator 2.x, and they never upgraded to Windows 95 or 98 during my time there. when i graduated they were still using the dated Windows 3.1

My High school years were one of two times a school was Apple-free. middle school had Tandy 1000s, and high school had a vast assortment of old and new machines. the typing classes had Sanyo XTs, for the purpose of using Mavis Beacon's typing software, the library ran 8088s off a network boot, using Novell Netware 3.x, monochrome monitors and used specifically as an electronic card catalog. an old Zenith XT was spotted a few times in the guidance office, with a fireworks screensaver. i never knew what it was used for. the library internet computers were then-new IBM PS/Valuepoints, a huge variant of the PS/1 and ran similar hardware. graphic arts classes ran CorelDRAW! on 486 machines, and a few half-cocked put together Pentiums. a IBM PS/2 or two were used in Tech Ed to run Sim City's first incarnation, and another used to run the CNC lathe.
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You had it good. Those Dos boxes didn't even exist in my high school. The office computers were all dumb terminals tied to the school board mainframe. We made good use of those Trash-80's with their 64K of RAM, and the typing class had IBM Selectric typewriters lol
 
Codegerm said:
You had it good. Those Dos boxes didn't even exist in my high school. The office computers were all dumb terminals tied to the school board mainframe. We made good use of those Trash-80's with their 64K of RAM, and the typing class had IBM Selectric typewriters lol
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Psh... at least you had electric typewriters...
 
instead of typewriters, we had the worst next thing--dot matrix printers. i can still do a pretty good vocal imitation of one lol.

the library did have a selectric ball typewriter though, it was alone in the computer room in one corner. i think it was just used for the novelty. hardly anyone used the thing and the ball tended to jam often. there was this one letter that it just refused to print, and would jam the ball and motor and make a horrid buzzing noise until someone pulled the plug.

I really had great fun with the token rings. in a class, if a bully angered me enough, and it was me and him in the same lab, i'd pull my machine's coax and it would bring the entire lab network to a grinding halt, and since the computers all ran off the network, his data was GONE!. in one instance i got his machine's Professional Write software to crash in an 'insert program disk' loop as when i'd pull the token ring cable it lost its connection to the cloud intranet.
 
nickdalzell said:
instead of typewriters, we had the worst next thing--dot matrix printers. i can still do a pretty good vocal imitation of one lol.

the library did have a selectric ball typewriter though, it was alone in the computer room in one corner. i think it was just used for the novelty. hardly anyone used the thing and the ball tended to jam often. there was this one letter that it just refused to print, and would jam the ball and motor and make a horrid buzzing noise until someone pulled the plug.

I really had great fun with the token rings. in a class, if a bully angered me enough, and it was me and him in the same lab, i'd pull my machine's coax and it would bring the entire lab network to a grinding halt, and since the computers all ran off the network, his data was GONE!. in one instance i got his machine's Professional Write software to crash in an 'insert program disk' loop as when i'd pull the token ring cable it lost its connection to the cloud intranet.
Click to expand...

Lol nice
 
yeah, i was very disappointed in finding out the RJ-45 ethernet they later used didn't have the same weakness. token ring and network boot was a lot like using a Chromebook--they required their local server connection in order to function (the servers were in some office). pulling their plug would disable all of the machines in the same subnet. with 10-baseTs, all that pulling the plug did was harm myself.
 
I started my computing life on a Sony VAIO with Windows 95. Since then I've used every consumer oriented version of Windows. 98, 98SE (loved that one), ME (hated that one! ), XP (still have it installed on a desktop) Vista and 7.

I think 8 looks pretty nice and am not anti-Metro (or Modern). But I do think 8 was designed for a touch screen.

I do have Ubuntu installed alongside Windows via WUBI. I HIGHLY recommend looking in to that before you partition a hard drive or erase Windows.WUBI installs Ubuntu as a Windows program. You can dual-boot and test Ubuntu and if you decide you don't like it, you can uninstall via Windows add/remove programs.

Ubuntu has stopped supporting WUBI with their latest release, but you could install the previous release (12.10) and then upgrade.

I support the ideals of Linux and do like Ubuntu, but I have not yet seen a compelling enough reason to dump Windows.

And the are some free programs I like that aren't available for Linux. Mainly ComicRack and streaming Netflix (the work-around for Netflix never did work for me).
​
 
Codegerm said:
You started with a Sony VAIO?! You must be a youngin..
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No, I'm in my forties. I played on friends computers, way back to the Apple IIe. but my first PC, all my own, was the early model VAIO. I first got online with AOL.

Honestly I think the reason I wanted a PC in the first place was to play WarCraft II and Command & Conquer. (Damn, I miss Westwood. )
 
Wubi doors not work with Windows 8 and UEFI.

I agree that there are times when Windows is necessary... the OS is a tool just like any other--one uses the tools necessary for the task at hand.

I also miss Westwood... playing C&C through wine just isn't as satisfying as resurrecting an older machine with Win 98 on it.

I haven't any time to do that, anymore, sadly.
 
Windows 8's Metro isn't 'Modern' at all. it's a revisit of the ancient CGA GUIs used in the '80s. some could even compare it slightly to Windows 3.1's Program Manager sans groups.

it's a devolution of an interface. one that hardly takes advantage of new screen tech. what is really scary is that Google seems to be inspired by it and bringing it to Android. so much for the 'HD' Super AMOLED Screen. if i lose my option to disable updates my phone will eventually turn into a Newton or GeOS. First thing i do when i boot up the one Win8 machine i got is click 'Desktop' and leave it as the main UI. at least it looks like Win7's desktop and i always auto-hide the taskbar anyway.

Three main problems with Metro:

The icons are HUGE. too BIG. my 30" LCD monitor is now reduced to a low-resolution 10" monitor.

the interface looks like a child's toy. a bit like the interface on the LeapPad.

I have 20/20 vision. i'm not that blind. unless there's a huge epidemic of blind people or visually impaired people, i don't need HUGE elements.


What Windows 8's UI comes off like:








THIS would be an example of a Modern, future UI. this is what we should see a proper move towards:

 
I'm surprised you didn't use a shot of Tom Cruise from Minority Report;)

I agree with some of your points, but I do think Metro/Modern is good for a touchscreen laptop, tablet or phone. And though I love Android, it started as mighty similar to iOS while Windows Phone is different and unique.

I forgot WUBI doesn't run on Windows 8. Otherwise it is a good chance for a novice to play with Ubuntu without making drastic changes to your PC.

BTW: I found out you can freely and legally download C&C Gold, updated for modern Windows.
 
Silly me, I though he was going to say LCARS.

Is there a playable C&C for Linux, yet? Is that free download compatible with Win 8?
 
I've been a fan of Stark/Iron Man for some time :)

Actually, the more recent UI changes to Google Play Store and the various Google Apps remind me more of iOS's 'same look across devices' approach often cited about Apple. the 'One Size Fits All' but modified for Google 'One UI Fits All'. personally i don't like it. that is why i have not only my own UI for my many home screens (which mixes Metro, Flat, and 3-D rolled into one, and has an inverted theme, as well) but also use the older Google Apps and i forced older Play Store to run without updating itself, because i see that as far more 'modern' than what Google's attempting. I preferred how Android was before they tried to make it work for noobs.

People compare LCARS with Win8 a ton, but LCARS is meant to look complicated and techy for people who watch the various Trek series. Windows 8 instead looks like it was made for kids. Windows phones all have the exact same UI and look alike, and since it's locked down you cannot change that. also, Windows Phone doesn't interest me while the app store is so bone dry. it reminds me of BlackBerry. i like customization and apps. for that it means Android.
 
Gotta admit, I'm tempted to cough up the $2 for the LCARS theme for Win 8, but I kinda don't plan on using Windows unless I can't help it.

... I wonder if anyone has done a treatment for Mint or Ubuntu yet... Gotta have an excuse to play with the touch screen, you know. :rolleyes:
 
I loved playing C&C, and would enjoy playing it again. I suppose I would enjoy playing with an LCARS UI if my laptop had a touch screen, but alas it don't. I am definitely not a fan of the UEFI secure boot/locked down OS garbage. The UI for Windows 8 makes me think "Fisher Price my first pc", and is a waste of a high definition display. I certainly won't get Windows 8.

The company I work for stopped at XP, and even the newest company laptop which had Windows7 had it ripped off and replaced with XP.
 
I just got my laptop to load up Mint with Secure Boot enabled, so I will likely not be using Win 8 much at all after this.

At work, we have utilities and programs that require DOS, and so have a few machines supporting Windows 3.1 as well as 95 and 98 machines, XP, and a couple Win 7 terminals connected to the company WAN.
 
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