This has nothing to do with politics.

[Bob Maxey]

The first time I noticed anything about a Hydrogen generator was on the TV show Doomsday Preppers. One of the featured preppers was planning on using it to start fires.

So he is building a complex device just to start fires? I use a magnesium block and sturdy steel or my piston and a little charred cotton. I did not see the show so perhaps I am not understanding things.

Seems like allot of work to start a fire. Heck, even a caveman can do it.

 

[Bob Maxey]

You can easily produce hydrogen with electricity.

Fill a glass with water, invert a few test tubes and run the positive lead from a power source to one tube and the negative lead to another tube and turn on the power.

One tube will fill with oxygen and the other, with hydrogen.

These gasses are not free because it cost you energy to produce them.

Nothing is for free. Except the love of a faithful dog, perhaps. But you must feed the dog, so there you go.

 

[Bob Maxey]

The biggest hurdle for any alternate fuel is the infrastructure thing. Even if you rolled out a hydrogen powered vehicle tomorrow and sold it for $5k brand new people wouldn't really line up to buy it because the infrastructure isn't there to fuel the thing. Not sure how you roll out the infrastructure when the vehicle isn't there and I'm not sure how you roll out a vehicle if the infrastructure isn't there to fuel it. It's a catch-22.

Yup, indeed.

What is required is for somene to take a serious first step. The infrastructure issue is not as big as you might think. I should think a private concern could make a deal with a chain of gas stations to install whatever is required.

They must be able to tie up their money for five years and push CNG as much as possible. The public I think eiter does not understand natural gasses or they fear limited availability.

Perhaps a deal that costs the service station nothing; they will get a cut of the profits could work. The places people need to go for fuel already exist (gas stations) so there is little construction required.

All it takes is cash and a long-term vision.

Natural gas is a good idea and it is proven tech. Conversions abound. I will not plan a trip through any place that can't provide fuel. That said, I bet there are places in many big cities to fuel up.

Anyone care to take a look?

Honda will give you a 3,000.00 gas card when you purchase one of their 2012 natural gas models. I believe the gubbernment gives you a tax break as does you state government, most likely. Add the cost of gas compared to gasoline, and the overall savings could be huge.

A buck 49 per gallon rememinds me of the good old days That said, I remember far cheaper prices. Can I convert a Olds Super 88 with 440 CID?

People do not understand natural gas cars so they avoid them. I think there are at least 10 models available.

Questar Gas (lcal utility) sells natural gas to the public for their cars at half the cost of gasoline, but the costs are said to be increasing. They have a number of "filling stations" here in SLC.

 

[Gmash]

I hope the gas tanks are seriously reinforced. A big tank of highly compressed, highly combustible gas, (either hydrogen or natural gas) could be a rolling bomb in a bad accident. Also, the refueling has to be a bit more complicated. Not saying these things can't be overcome, just saying, little old ladies would have to be able to do this. Or, maybe a return of full-service gas stations? Another thing is, natural gas is cheap now, but if everyone started putting it in their cars, obviously the price would go up, just due to simple supply and demand.

 

[Bob Maxey]

Very true, you need a battery to start the process, but once you are up and running, you could have the system charge that battery while running the generator. You could get way more power from a few gallons of water verses a fully charged deep cycle battery.

Losses tend to accumulate throughout the system and they slowly add up. The gas must come from somewhere and that is through breaking down the water to release hydrogen and oxygen, and that requires energy.

Not sure how much gas is in a gallon of water.

Sounds like perpetual motion which is demonstrably impossible. Are you suggesting perpetual motion is the key to our salvation?

The problem is, the energy required to break down the water. Perhaps combine it with solar and wind power? Something must work.

Perhaps steam power is the best way to go. It works for our nuclear subs so scaling down a system for your Vega should be a cake walk.

 

[Bob Maxey]

I hope the gas tanks are seriously reinforced. A big tank of highly compressed, highly combustible gas, (either hydrogen or natural gas) could be a rolling bomb in a bad accident. Also, the refueling has to be a bit more complicated. Not saying these things can't be overcome, just saying, little old ladies would have to be able to do this. Or, maybe a return of full-service gas stations? Another thing is, natural gas is cheap now, but if everyone started putting it in their cars, obviously the price would go up, just due to simple supply and demand.

As I understand it, the hydrogen is stored in a safe manner and in a sponge. Finding the best sponge material seems to be a big part of the research as far as hydrogen power for vehicles goes. I am not sure, but federal laws might mandate (certainly the DOT) certain specifications for storage in your vehicle.

As I recall, in acetylene gas tanks, the gas is dissolved by something like acetone and stored in a porous material. Not sure how much gas pressure is in a hydrogen storage tank or how it is stored, but I read references to a sponge to hold the gas.

Otherwise, apparently, there is not enough capacity in an empty hydrogen storage tank to drive very far.

Not sure the dangers are as great compared to gasoline.

Utah has vast natural gas reserves. Sure, as demand increases, the prices also increase. As it is now, in Utah, the price of natural gas at the pump is 64 cents a gallon and we have 25 or more places to fill 'er up.

That sounds good, but conversions can run from $6,000.00 to $12,000.00. Those costs scare people. And some converters are not EPA certified nor are many installers. This might be a problem come time to license your car or truck.

Not a DIY project.