Tired of hearing what I need to do.

[IOWA]

Yeah lame. Between my family's income, and our business's taxes etc we pay well over 3 millions a year in taxes. That's a lot of money. I demand a bailout!

The "bailout" for your "small business" takes the form of tax incentives and credits in the ACA.

As well as the numerous other provisions of the tax code that currently exist to incentivize and make small businesses competitive.

IOWA: If all the large banks had failed, the small banks wouldn't have had the capital to step up and take their place -- that's the problem with letting the banks fail.

All:
If you don't like the tax rates, or you don't like the programs your money is being spent on, you have two options:
1) Petition, campaign, etc, to reduce taxes / change the programs it's spent on. (amusingly, this would have the consequence of increasing the deficit, which you identify as a problem).
2) Move to another country.

Do I agree with most of what tax money is spent on? No, there's a ton of waste in the system. But if you really think it's possible for them to repeal Medicare, or Social Security, you don't know what you're talking about.

I disagree. Also, not all the large banks would have failed. And with people changing banks from the other banks closing, the smaller banks would have enough capital to lend, and since they watch their money/finances more carefully, and make better loan giving decisions. You seem to forget, the banks got themselves into that heap of trouble, all by themselves. By making bad decisions, and giving 300k+ vbr loans to people with less than 25k a year incomes.

Who are they, that they get to stay in business after such a monumental failure?

we would be better off long term without them.

 

[zauper]

I disagree. Also, not all the large banks would have failed. And with people changing banks from the other banks closing, the smaller banks would have enough capital to lend, and since they watch their money/finances more carefully, and make better loan giving decisions. You seem to forget, the banks got themselves into that heap of trouble, all by themselves. By making bad decisions, and giving 300k+ vbr loans to people with less than 25k a year incomes.

Who are they, that they get to stay in business after such a monumental failure?

we would be better off long term without them.

We almost certainly would be better off long-term with letting them fail, the issue would be the short time consequences.

Brab:
Do you understand Medicare? Do you understand that it is already privatized? You have the option to enroll in Medicare Part C (Medicare Advantage [MA]) or fee for service (A & B) [FFS], and Part D (the drug benefit) is privatized only.

Do you know what the average cost of MA compared to FFS Medicare has been since it passed?

 

[IOWA]

I've always understood that longterm>short term

Tapatalk. Samsung Moment. Yep.

 

[Snow_Fox]

Umm..


Politicians have a really bad habit of letting the next person in line fix the long term problems they created with short term solutions.

So the next Politician gets in and fixes the long term screw ups of the previous people by making more long term screw ups which were great for the short term.

The bank should have fallen.

 

[mancow]

I think the problem is that we are now attempting to become this hybrid creature which is part socialism and part capitalism and it doesn't work. Everyone wants it both ways. They want to be able to play and never pay in a world where failure is not really a factor.

When 50% of the population doesn't contribute to income taxes but 100% are being promised a multitude of benefits the math simply doesn't work. It cant be sustained indefinitely.

The thing I've found most disturbing lately is the political corruption. Anyone with a speck of sense would know that you don't create the largest entitlement program ever seen right in the middle of an economic crisis. However, instead of common sense compromise we see $300 mil thrown at someone like Landrieau in Louisiana and suddenly that vote is signed and delivered.

The entire situation and people involved are just vulgar.

 

[hood420]

I think the government, especially the Federal government needs to be overhauled top to bottom. I don't agree with any social programs, and I definitely don't think any should exist at a federal level. I really think the responsibility of the federal government is national defense, interstate & international commerce, preserving individual rights with the Constitution as a guideline and that's about it. I like educational and science related funding, but it honestly isn't the responsibility of government, certainly not at a federal level.

In reality, we've become so dependent on the current messed-up state of things that it will be hard/impossible to right-size government. If things continue to go the way that they have for the past 70 years or so, our society will crumble, whether it be in 10 years or 100 years or longer is the only question. I hold very little hope that things will get any better, short term thinking and politicians pandering to the ignorant and ill-informed masses seems as if it will prevail.

http://www.bigmattress.com/weblog/government.jpg

 

[Snow_Fox]

@mancow.

I live in louisiana... Our politicians are so corrupt, it is mind boggling. What is even worse is I was reading, and I have no idea if this is somehow tied to obama or not.. However, since he took office payrates have gone up in the gov't.. More gov't employee's are getting paid more.. pretty bad considering.

We want to be a capitolist nation with socialist security nets.. and sadly.. its a slippery slope anyway you look at it when your half and half usually not towards positive means..

@hood420

Your posted couldn't be more accurate. The problem i see it is a total lack of moderation. People don't want to be moderate on any issue.. Lets face it.. most people see the black or white in these issues..

Sadly no one wants to find the most effective solution that will set us on the right path short term and help us long term.. people just want their cake...

Well guess what.. The cake is a lie..

 

[IOWA]

Mancow's morning madhouse.

Tapatalk. Samsung Moment. Yep.

 

[hakr100]

@mancow.

I live in louisiana... Our politicians are so corrupt, it is mind boggling. What is even worse is I was reading, and I have no idea if this is somehow tied to obama or not.. However, since he took office payrates have gone up in the gov't.. More gov't employee's are getting paid more.. pretty bad considering.
.

The chief exec of your state is a Republican governor, not Obama.

 

[zauper]

@mancow.

I live in louisiana... Our politicians are so corrupt, it is mind boggling. What is even worse is I was reading, and I have no idea if this is somehow tied to obama or not.. However, since he took office payrates have gone up in the gov't.. More gov't employee's are getting paid more.. pretty bad considering.

We want to be a capitolist nation with socialist security nets.. and sadly.. its a slippery slope anyway you look at it when your half and half usually not towards positive means..

State employee payrates are determined by your state.
Federal employee payrates are, generally speaking, substantially lower than one could receive in industry. The benefits are, also generally speaking, substantially better.

 

[Zenze]

I think the problem is that we are now attempting to become this hybrid creature which is part socialism and part capitalism and it doesn't work.

I disagree. First of all there has never really been a purely capitalist society or a purely socialist in the world, all are some form of hybrid. Also many things it just makes more sense for the government to do and other things it does not, therefore you need a hybrid system.

Well guess what.. The cake is a lie..

Portal reference?

 

[Snow_Fox]

Few points to clear up.

1. my statements about living in louisiana were more along the lines of growing up and living in this state.. You never really hear anything besides "corruption, corruption, corruption".

2. My reference to gov't jobs increasing payrates was on a federal level sorry I forgot to mention that.

@ Zenze

SPOILERS FOR A VIDEO GAME

The cake is a lie is a reference to a video game.. You are promised cake.. and in many places.. you find it written on the wall "the cake is a lie" over and over.

END SPOILERS

I am using the cake is a lie as a reference to the fact that we in America, Democrats AND republicans, Liberals AND Conservatives have really adopted a bad habit of "quick fixes" to problems which really, really do not work.

For example.. we are in a recession.. so Obama gets a huge stimulus bill passed.. Which may be great short term.. But, now we are potentially crippled economically long term.

I'm not just picking on obama here, this is something all politicians are guilty of. Unfortunately at the moment, politicans have a horrible habit of trying to appeal to *everyone* when it comes to economic matters.. Some politicians seem to avoid economics like a bad plague and choose to take a holy roller stance which also wins a lot of people.

However, at the moment politics really can't stand up and say "Ok we need to cut this, in order to save this!"

Yes letting GM and Goldman Sachs fall may have caused some short term problems.. However, that is life. We can not keep acting for the present.. We have to eventually face problems and handle them even if it means facing harder times.

I personally *still* think GM deserves to fail and I think GM *will* fail again. Gm faced problems in part because, they had virtually no fuel efficient vehicles.. We get in a depression.. gas drops and bam.. They are being "saved" by the camaro.. A gas guzzler.. and the news article talking about how the company is being saved goes on to talk about how they were going to receive EVEN MORE MONEY! GM may offer some more fuel efficient vehicles now.. but, the fact is they are a day late and a dollar short.

So me saying the cake is a lie equates to this. Yes, short term jobs were saved by helping Goldman-Sachs out and GM.. However, the cost of saving those companies and jobs is a big cost which we are now going to have to deal with.

Even in regards to the oil spill which occured recently.. I've seen some people mention "boycotting" BP.. I personally don' think that is a good idea.. We want to talk about "jobs being saved" when we are discussing the stimulus.. But, when we discuss BP.. No one wants to think about the fact that you would also be boycotting the people who work for bp that had nothing to do with the break down, people with families, jobs and not even just in the BP company.. we are talking people who work at gas stations which are not owned by but, do sell BP gas. This would be horrible for the economy.

Not to mention.. honestly.. gas has already hit 4$ a gallon in the past.. close to 5$ at some points and probably 5$ in some places.. even *if* people seriously boycotted BP.. I assure you.. once bp dropped its prices and competitors began raising prices.. that boycott would end quickly.

Also, thanks for keeping this discussing relatively friendly guys, it is nice to see that even if we don't agree we can at least discuss it.

 

[Zenze]

Heh I actually understood your meaning, what I should have said was "nice Portal reference."

Anyway I agree that all these short term fixes are not the right approach. I also agree that if a company is going to fail then they should fail. Thats what happens when you are not able to provide what your customers want and someone else can do it better.

I think that the problem is that we have "career" politicians. Unfortunately they resort to short term results because they need results that they can wave around before the next election comes up.