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To tether or not to tether
- Thread starter cougar214
- Start date
LP = Long Play (record). They are large disks of plastic with a single grove on one side and a single groove on the other side; a label on either side, and a little hole in the center and you have Gustav Mahler, the Stones, and Snoop Dog's grandfather in glorious quadraphonic sound from a rotating platform, moving parts, and small sliver of gem material.
Or a metal pin in the case of Edison's players.
Odd that the big ones have a tiny hole and the 45s (smaller ones) have a big hole except for 78s which had a small hole and Edison cylinders that had a big hole longitudinally. And piano rolls that have lots of holes and slots, but made from dead trees by Elves in a hollow recording studio. Music from air and suction, like magic.
Thank God things have improved and 8-tracks are finally here. Ask your Grandfather about tape.
Floppy disks are things my grandfather once told me about. Really not all too floppy except for the 5.50/10.0 inch versions.
Guess I need to 'splain wire recorders and Edison cylinders, right?
Bob
Bob, I was just messing with you. I'm a retired guy. Sorry if you invested a lot of time in this. I just saw LP and floppy disk and got lost in the past. My kids saw something on VH1 awhile back, I guess it was a Rockumentary on Metallica's black album and how people camped out to get cassette tapes and LP albums. My kids wondered what the heck those things were and why didn't people just download the album? I started looking at plots and headstones....
T. J.
noah way
Android Enthusiast
Unlimited data was fine until VZW decided to release phones capable of simultaneous voice/data transmission (i.e. the iPhone).
Looking at AT&T, we see that their network is the worst for connection quality, reliability and dropped calls because it can't handle the bandwidth its devices are capable of (and apparently being used for). So VZW, hoping to forestall a similar problem (and raise even more revenue) is planning to "economically throttle" data.
As to what's legal: everything is legal. If it's not you have to be able to afford to prove it in court. The only people who are interested in doing that are class action lawyers who are far more concerned with a huge payday than the merits of any issue.
As a side note, the delay in announcing data packages and rates awaits sophisticated analysis of the most profitable price points at which to limit bandwidth (the same way voice plans are structured).
The irony is of course that at the same time VZW is trying to sell you multi-gigabyte movies over the phone ...
Looking at AT&T, we see that their network is the worst for connection quality, reliability and dropped calls because it can't handle the bandwidth its devices are capable of (and apparently being used for). So VZW, hoping to forestall a similar problem (and raise even more revenue) is planning to "economically throttle" data.
As to what's legal: everything is legal. If it's not you have to be able to afford to prove it in court. The only people who are interested in doing that are class action lawyers who are far more concerned with a huge payday than the merits of any issue.
As a side note, the delay in announcing data packages and rates awaits sophisticated analysis of the most profitable price points at which to limit bandwidth (the same way voice plans are structured).
The irony is of course that at the same time VZW is trying to sell you multi-gigabyte movies over the phone ...
Bob Maxey
Android Expert
To hades with the French. I hope you do not think that is a good idea because you would be so very wrong.
Bob Maxey
Android Expert
Hey T.J. I knew that. Just a silly reply and I am a fast typer. Odd thing that there are some youngsters that have likely never seen a record or 8-track or cassette tape.
If you are retired you are close to my age. I am glad I grew up in a different time. Although we did not have the technology we enjoy today, we enjoyed a far less complicated world where we could go Trick-or-Treating and buy records from a record store and not a rap album in sight.
Do you remember when gas was less than 50 cents per gallon?
For some reason my earliest recollection of gas prices is 55 cents. That's what we were paying to fill up our Pinto for 6 dollars. I remember when we took it from Wisconsin to Montana and my sister and I rode in the hatchback area above the gas tank/bomb on top of the luggage. No car seats for us kids, and guess what, we are still alive and well.
mortymouse
Well-Known Member
Why do people continue to say that tethering your phone is illegal, it isn't. Is it a violation of your contract with your carrier, yes.... illegal...no. Violating the terms of your contract may cause you to incur additional fees or have your account terminated, but that is all.
Ignorance is bliss I guess, but really if you are that concerned hire yourself a contract lawyer or speak to someone in corporate law. There is nothing specifically illegal about tethering your phone. Its a civil law matter for violating contract.
The carrier can turn off your service, charge you more, charge you fees, etc. But its not illegal.
Ignorance is bliss I guess, but really if you are that concerned hire yourself a contract lawyer or speak to someone in corporate law. There is nothing specifically illegal about tethering your phone. Its a civil law matter for violating contract.
The carrier can turn off your service, charge you more, charge you fees, etc. But its not illegal.
lordofthereef
Android Expert
Because of the definition of the word illegal. The dictionary even uses it in a sports term as an "illegal pass". Certainly you aren't going to be jailed for making an illegal pass in football, right?
I should add that it can be viewed as unlawful as well. One is literally breaching contract and using paid-for services without proper approval. I seem to remember a hack on TMO back when the first iPhone came out where one could use the $5/mo email plan to download as much other forms of data as desired. I would consider that unlawful as well, personally.
mortymouse
Well-Known Member
I would respectfully disagree. To use the word illegal for breaking terms of service with a wireless carrier is nonsensical. It is not illegal nor unlawful to tether your phone. It would be a violation of the TOS with your carrier if you were not paying for it.
What one person may or may not feel about the subject is irrelevant, in the eyes of the law there is nothing illegal about it. Personally I find it irresponsible to claim otherwise as it simply isn't a fact.
The use of the word illegal, was many different uses I agree. Noun, Adverb, Adjective.....but the way it is being used on this thread and countless others implies that someone would be committing a crime, and that is simply not the case.
Wouldn't you agree that the majority of people posting on this subject and calling things "illegal" are referring to being against the law? Thats what I see posted over and over, even in this particular thread. People talk of it as stealing and being against the law or "illegal" and that is simply NOT the case.
I wouldn't be so sure about that. It many jurisdictions it could easily be considered theft of services. By specifically disregarding the TOS contract and deliberately modifying your phone to bypass the restrictions, you [in the general sense, not you personally] are committing a crime.
Look at it this way ... You have a house with electrical service and your friend buys the vacant lot next door. He builds a garage on the property to store his cars and want to have periodic use of electricity to work on them, however he doesn't want to get a meter and set up an account. Since you have an account you offer to let him run an extension cord into his garage and pay you for the additional power usage. Since you are paying for the electricity anyway, there's nothing wrong, right? Wrong.
Breaching a contract in and of itself is not illegal, however doing so for the enrichment of one party at the expense of another is.
mortymouse
Well-Known Member
Sorry but that isn't a legally accurate argument, and the analogy doesn't fit with this situation. I can say with 100% confidence that there is nothing illegal about tethering your phone. It is simply a violation of your contract. Its a Civil matter only, not criminal and it could never be brought to a criminal court. You can be charged fees and not pay and the carrier could sue you for damages, but you would never be in a criminal court.
My only point in this debate is the subject of illegal, against the law and or stealing, non of which this is. Its a civil matter and a contract breech.
Bob Maxey
Android Expert
Perhaps the word illegal is not always properly used. I will grant you that. I will also give you this: violating a contract is not specifically illegal. But I am not so sure that it is legal to make it possible for people to violate their cell phone contracts en mass. Like selling tethering applications that facilitate wide-spread breach of contract.
Neither thee or me are knowledgeable enough about the law to say if I am wrong or not wrong.
There are other comparisons like the aforementioned example of power use by a neighbor that might or might not be comparable to the issue of tethering. Here is another: you pay the water company $3.00 per month for 'unlimited' water to feed your drip irrigation system as part of your state's low cost "Green Gardening Initiative." Then you purchase a special valve off the net that allows you to access far more water that is intended by the Water Company. For cooking, bathing, drinking, etc. You paid for unlimited water but your use far exceeds what is intended by the Water Company.
That would be theft, pure and simple. In this case, you might simply be cut off and that would be the end of it. Or they decide that you should be made an example of, because thousands of people are buying these valves to access expensive water.
So lets refer to it as a breech of contract, and that you can be punished for. It might not be jail, but you won't escape paying the price in one way or another. Your service can be cut off, you can be charged heavy fees, or your service could be capped. Perhaps your service will be cut and you go on a 'Black List' of sorts, so you find it hard to get service in the future.
The problem is there has yet to be a test case (?). Chances are there won't be, because it is simply easier for AT&T to throw a switch and cut your service.
There are issues like Bandwidth Theft that might not generally apply to tethering your phone or they might. This type of theft generally applies to linking to graphics on another site rather than locally storing a graphic. This type of theft is indeed theft and actionable because it is stealing. In Canada, apparently you can be arrested and you go to jail for bandwidth theft.
Bandwidth is a costly thing and it is limited. It is finite and we can't make more of the stuff. As such, if stolen it can be considered a crime and therefore, actionable. The issue can go beyond contract violations into theft pure and simple. Again, the courts will decide.
Again, not saying it is the same thing as tethering or if it applies. There are many ways it could apply and it is logical to say that tethering your phone could be considered theft, and that is punishable. Or it is simple contract violation and that's that. We will simply have to wait for the inevitable legal cases and then see how the courts rule.
I might suggest that the reason people tether is to avoid something more costly. They want something for free so they circumvent the rules. Not honorable and it might lead to laws that specifically make tethering illegal or phone companies might simply make it impossible to tether their phones. Or tethering continues and we all pay for it.
Guaranteed, you might be wrong or I might be wrong or we are both missing something lawyers bring to court. This issue is much more complicated than a simple disagreement over terms that may or might not apply.
Bob
Bob Maxey
Android Expert
Clarify . . . what is your point? Forgive me, but I am not quite sure what it is you are trying to say.
I have unlimited everything, but I have yet to reach my unlimited limit limit. Not too sure what my limit is. I also have a no contract plan and I think they are the way to go, personally.
Bob
mortymouse
Well-Known Member
Which has been my point all along. I can only speak from my own knowledge of the law (and yes, I did go to law school and have a JD).
I am not trying to disrespect you or anyone else and I hope that none was taken. I simple get irritated when people throw around the term illegal, especially as people on these forums are highly reactionary. The events over the last few months have people on edge and I thought at the very least it was important for people to understand there was no crime here. That being said, all of the carriers can certainly impose fees, throttle, cancel contract for violations, etc.
Thanks for the dialogue and debate. Its refreshing.
