The issue being that they do not offer that plan. If you want a plan without data you can find carriers that offer that. Verizon relies on customers who want to use phones that are known to be data intensive to help pay to expand the network those phones are built for. If you want a device that does not connect to a network the you should get a stand alone mediaplayer, MID, or tablet and carry a feature/dumb phone if you want to have VZW as your carrier.
-
After 15+ years, we've made a big change: Android Forums is now Early Bird Club. Learn more here.
Verizon forces data plan for other smartphones
- Thread starter sskother
- Start date
- Status
IOWA
Mr. Logic Pants
That's just the point, there are no carriers that offer than kind of plan (without some kind of loopy workaround).
There are plenty of carriers that offer plans that are cheaper than VZW, yes some have data included but their plans are cheaper than VZWs before you add the data charge.
Check out Boost, Virgin Mobile, Page Plus, MetroPCS, Simple Moble, and Cincinnati Bell I believe they all offer cheaper plans than VZW some of which will include data but are less expensive.
Check out Boost, Virgin Mobile, Page Plus, MetroPCS, Simple Moble, and Cincinnati Bell I believe they all offer cheaper plans than VZW some of which will include data but are less expensive.
IOWA
Mr. Logic Pants
Thats not the point whos cheaper. Not even close. What matters is there should be a "no data" option for all carriers
jason81
Well-Known Member
I think that Verizon has the ability to make the rules for their business. No one is forcing anyone to sign up with them. If you don't like it..... spend several years and billions of dollars and start your own company... and run it how you like.
UncleVanya
Newbie
You say "no carriers" offer this type of plan and then you are shown there are carriers that do offer said plans. Then you say that it isn't about cheaper and that all carriers should offer a no-data type plan even for smartphones. I'm confused...
The reality is that carrier subsidies are why this happens. The smartphones are subsidized by the data fees you pay - and they aren't honest enough to offer different monthly rates for subsidized and non-subsidized phones. I'm irked that I have to pay the same monthly fee for my data on my personal owned phone purchased used - as someone who picks up a Droid Razr on contract... but that is how it is.
What's funny is that this series of posts by you seems to rail against a lack of choice - but you have choices - which you seem to discount as unimportant. What you seem to be advocating is for us to collectively take away the carriers rights to choose to offer plans that they wish - essentially forcing them via lawsuit or other means to offer plans they don't want to.
Question: If there is such a market for this - why doesn't it exist?
Answer - Most consumers don't want a smartphone without data plans - they want to use them as always connected devices and enjoy those benefits. Therefore there is little incentive to offer such a plan. Without data plans the monthly fee for subsidized smartphones would have to be higher - and carriers don't want to expose this detail to the consumer since the consumer might then start wondering why they have to pay this after their contract is up...
IOWA
Mr. Logic Pants
Carrier subsidies? Please. The OP is using a USED Droid. There are TONS of USED (i.e. NON-SUBSIDIZED/PAID FOR) phones out there just floating around begging to be used. Plus, people still have the option of paying upfront if they want a new device. So your carrier "subsidy" argument is completely and utterly invalid.
Yes, I am railing against a lack of choice. Consumers shouldn't be forced into a plan because of hardware they own. How would you feel if when you upgraded from a pentium four to a corei7 that you needed to add a premium data package so it could have access to the internet? And they said no, you can't use this with dial-up? Same concept.
Just like a decade ago when consumers were forced to subscribe to phone/cable service in order to have cable modem/DSL service to their houses. The market was obviously there, carriers just didn't want to oblige. But through fear of legislation, they did it anyway. So now thanks to people like me who suggested these lawsuits in the first place, people can now enjoy home internet without HAVING to have the home phone service for DSL or basic cable for cable internet. Kind of a nice thing to have right?
Would you agree this is fair? Why is it fair for fixed communications and not wireless?
There are huge markets for a ton of things that these grumpy old execs just don't wish to oblige. Such as a market for lossless audio files. Sure, the majority of people are happy with lossy formats for $0.99, but there are a few (like myself) that would love a digital store that sold them in a lossless format such as .FLAC.
The real answer to your question is that the reason the market doesn't exist, is because execs are afraid they will lose money on their bottom line, and has absolutely nothing to do with a lack of market for it, technical feasibility, or carrier subsidies.
Regards,
-IOWA
--------------------------------------------
Problem Jason, yes it took lots of money to get started, but a LARGE portion of that was through taxpayer money, and it's using public assets to make their product work. So let's flip the script. If they want to start a wireless network company, how about they pay for all the expenses out of pocket, take zero taxpayer dollars, and purchase all the land every single tower sits on outright.
-Then I won't say a word.
Zacharybinx34
Lurker
Why in the world can't a Android based smartphone be rooted/jailbroke and install a data blocker that literally will not allow any data transmission?
That would solve the first problem.
The second problem, is Verizon seeing what model the phone is. Why not hack w/e is telling verizon what model the phone is, and change that to what your current dumb phone model name is. I have an LG glance on my verizon network, and I would love to take my friends old android smart phone, and use it for basic calls, and WIFI internet at home/work, etc.
I will not pay 30$'s a month for a smart phone, what a rip off.
That would solve the first problem.
The second problem, is Verizon seeing what model the phone is. Why not hack w/e is telling verizon what model the phone is, and change that to what your current dumb phone model name is. I have an LG glance on my verizon network, and I would love to take my friends old android smart phone, and use it for basic calls, and WIFI internet at home/work, etc.
I will not pay 30$'s a month for a smart phone, what a rip off.
Welcome to AF dhuynh
The FCC is aware of carriers requiring data plans for smartphones. If you want to change anything filing complaints with them would be the best option. The carriers are not doing anything against the current regulations, if you get them changed then the carriers would need to adapt as well.
Welcome to AF dhuynh
The FCC is aware of carriers requiring data plans for smartphones. If you want to change anything filing complaints with them would be the best option. The carriers are not doing anything against the current regulations, if you get them changed then the carriers would need to adapt as well.
Good point/post Yeahha. The FCC does regulate the wireless carriers. However, as most of you probably realize, getting our government to change regulations is like waiting for molassas to run uphill in the middle of winter in Alaska.
Ok now I'll sit back and wait for the next post about Verizon required data plans are just a money grab or criminal.
This is not a correct analogy...data plans are "services" not physical items you buy.
As you know many GM vehicles now come standard with OnStar hardware. Would you buy any GM car if they said OnStar subscription was mandatory? Only on Cadillacs? Buicks? Trucks? How likely would you purchase from GM if they had such a rule set in place? This IMO is a better analogy because the Smartphone's data services are only possible by a physical device onboard much like the OnStar's.
This sets a precedent for the future...how about if the carriers required you to pay for a monthly subscription to activate the Wi-Fi on your phone? Would you pay? How much? $1.99/month? $5.99/month? $19.99/month?
I just bought a Casio Commando from a private party because it has all the features that I wanted without using data, the onboard GPS does not need a data connection to function, I just use Map Droyd and it's good enough for me. It also has a setting to turn off all Data to prevent any overages (in conjunction with a data usage app).
As for the argument about how many people have complained about data usage on their respective devices and gone over, that argument is invalid because now without an unlimited plan if you go over you will still have to pay overages and be in the same boat as the others who have used too much data.
This is a "free" country (USA) however we do have laws on the books regarding business and commerce and I agree with the poster who suggested doing something proactive about it (class action lawsuit, demonstrations, etc...) or GTFO. Much like the Supreme Court ruling that allows cellphone consumers to do as they wish with their devices, anything is possible however unlikely.
The perception of freedom and choice all depends on whose eyes you are viewing it through. But as someone who believes freedom of choice is paramount, this really sucks.
The reality is that 99% of all smartphone buyers are not in poverty and can afford the extra costs so they are willing to pay (happily or grudgingly) and are trained to get accustomed to it. Much like syrup with pancakes...you kind of expect it if you order pancakes although it seems like it is a free condiment it is priced into the menu price.
The bottom line: The majority of us are sheeple who don't have the skills, knowledge, or the funds to do anything differently.
It doesn't matter if the analogy is not perfect.... the point is the same... a company has the right to sell a service or an item the way they choose. The freedom of choice everyone is referring to is the freedom to buy from the company or NOT buy from the company. Your freedom is NOT to force the company to sell it's service or item the way you want to buy it. Your freedom is to buy from a company that sells its service or item that is more to your liking.
IOWA
Mr. Logic Pants
The analogy isn't flawed, it's INVALID. Completely. No relation.
Also, please look up Carter phone regulations before you carry on. Please.
Ok, forget the analogy.... is the following thought flawed also?
a company has the right to sell a service or an item the way they choose. The freedom of choice everyone is referring to is the freedom to buy from the company or NOT buy from the company. Your freedom is NOT to force the company to sell it's service or item the way you want to buy it. Your freedom is to buy from a company that sells its service or item that is more to your liking.
All the best IOWA
copestag
Android Expert
thats kind of what makes capitalism........ well ..... capitalism
dont like what theyre selling.......... you can always go to another carrier......... for that matter you can go without a cellphone at all
I dont remember reading the inalienable right to bare cellphones in the constitution
the whole coddle me society needs to get a grip on reality
dont like what theyre selling.......... you can always go to another carrier......... for that matter you can go without a cellphone at all
I dont remember reading the inalienable right to bare cellphones in the constitution
the whole coddle me society needs to get a grip on reality
IOWA
Mr. Logic Pants
Ok, if thats your train of thought lets raise prices on other non neccesities that have near monopolies due to limitations in the industry. After all, people dont need electricity, right? I mean, this whole coddle me society really needs to get a grib on reality.
This thread has never been about whats a necessity and what isnt. I know a cellphone isnt essential to life. But i also know that all cell phone companies are built with public property, and have been funded with a large portion of taxpayer dollars, so there needs to be some sort of regulation here.
When its all thought out, i think its really you who needs to "get a grip" on reality.
And in order for it to have been true capitalism, they shouldnt have used any public assetts at all, but it didnt go that way.
And again, i suggest you look up carter phone protections. This is all eerily similiar to just a few decades ago.
copestag
Android Expert
speaking of flawed analogies........ FFS
youre comparing electricity to a data plan......... you do realize that the vast majority of people in america do not have a data plan....... its a luxury item...... its not an entitlement ....... its not even something you cant live without.... and theres no monopoly on cellphones........ I can drive into town today and choose from no less than 5 different providers ( SOME WHICH HAVE FREE DATA) just at the walmart kiosk.... thats capitalism and freedom of choice......... how many electric companies can you choose from in your town?????//
some peoples children... sheesh
if you want coddled buy your mommy something nice for Christmas..... its not VZW's job
edit: tried to find something on Carter phone protections...... appears not to exist.......... hopefully you dont mean carterfone........ that would really put you out in left field on the analogies
youre comparing electricity to a data plan......... you do realize that the vast majority of people in america do not have a data plan....... its a luxury item...... its not an entitlement ....... its not even something you cant live without.... and theres no monopoly on cellphones........ I can drive into town today and choose from no less than 5 different providers ( SOME WHICH HAVE FREE DATA) just at the walmart kiosk.... thats capitalism and freedom of choice......... how many electric companies can you choose from in your town?????//
some peoples children... sheesh
if you want coddled buy your mommy something nice for Christmas..... its not VZW's job
edit: tried to find something on Carter phone protections...... appears not to exist.......... hopefully you dont mean carterfone........ that would really put you out in left field on the analogies
IOWA
Mr. Logic Pants
15 different companies? Sure. 95% of which still all pay the big two. Again, built with billions of dollars worth of public money & assets That's not capitalism.
copestag
Android Expert
by your definition there is no such thing as capitalsim in America...... theres not a single company in this country that you could name that didnt at some point get a tax subsidy or some sort of govt break.......... but this isnt the political forum so I wont get in a debate nitpicking the details of capitalism
in general capitalism results in freedom of choice for the consumer......... and when it comes to cellphones....... there is PLENTY of choice....... you dont have to choose VZW........ you can choose any other provider........ and if that provider does happen to be a subsidiary of or making some payment to 'the big two' who cares....... if they offer free data or dont require data..... then I would say youre digging an even deeper hole in flawed theory
I guess you could say if 'the big two' control all the smaller companies....... and the smaller companies are offering free or no requirement for data .... then by proxy 'the big two' are still offering free or no requirement for data... so whats the problem here? by your reasoning VZW still has a plan for smartphones which doesnt require data packages....... its just branded under a different company name......... now thats capitalism at its finest right there
in general capitalism results in freedom of choice for the consumer......... and when it comes to cellphones....... there is PLENTY of choice....... you dont have to choose VZW........ you can choose any other provider........ and if that provider does happen to be a subsidiary of or making some payment to 'the big two' who cares....... if they offer free data or dont require data..... then I would say youre digging an even deeper hole in flawed theory
I guess you could say if 'the big two' control all the smaller companies....... and the smaller companies are offering free or no requirement for data .... then by proxy 'the big two' are still offering free or no requirement for data... so whats the problem here? by your reasoning VZW still has a plan for smartphones which doesnt require data packages....... its just branded under a different company name......... now thats capitalism at its finest right there
IOWA
Mr. Logic Pants
Actually there are a ton of companies in America that don't want or need government subsidies in order to build out and be successful. And also, a tax break isn't the same as being funded by taxpayer money, and using taxpayer assets. Completely different and your lack of comprehension is astounding.
There is no point in explaining to someone who doesn't understand the concept of public assets.
Hey Iowa,
I have to differ with you regarding a tax breaks as not being the same.
The government needs X amount of dollars to run. When they give a company a tax break, the money to run the government has to come from somewhere.... i.e. the taxpayers... so whether the government flat gives the money away or gives it via a tax break, the dollars still come from the taxpayers. (taxpayer assets)
Is this fun or what????
Oh yeah, I couldn't find anything on your "Carter phones regs" How 'bout providing a link to what you're referring to?
Remember, the government can't give anybody anything until it first takes it from someone else.
copestag
Android Expert
yep my lack of comprehension is astounding......... lets get off topic and use personal attacks because we are wrong.......... doh
VZW is a business........ if you dont like how they run their business then dont do business with them...... plain and simple
there are plenty of other options out there for you....... without forcing a private business to change because youre whiney
btw......... still cant find anything in re to carter phone...... guess I cant comprehend what it is.......... found plenty on carterfone though... a totally unrelated subject........ yep my comprehension is lacking indeed
VZW is a business........ if you dont like how they run their business then dont do business with them...... plain and simple
there are plenty of other options out there for you....... without forcing a private business to change because youre whiney
btw......... still cant find anything in re to carter phone...... guess I cant comprehend what it is.......... found plenty on carterfone though... a totally unrelated subject........ yep my comprehension is lacking indeed
- Status