Was I wrong about Android?

[MoodyBlues]

I posted in my phone's sub-forum before it dawned on me that this didn't need to be on a phone-specific board--and since that particular forum doesn't seem to get much activity, I'm pasting in my post below with the hopes that someone can just set me straight! Okay...

I finally got around to buying a smart phone to replace my cell phone. I'm a Linux-only person and specifically shopped for an Android OS phone. I made it a point NOT to buy a windoze or even Apple based phone. Okay, great, so my Bravo arrived a couple days ago and I love it...but...

For one thing, as soon as I started exploring its file system [via USB connection to one of my computers], I saw something shocking: windoze programs. Huh? What the heck are windoze programs doing on my Android?

Next, I just used its "phone portal" feature to access it via browser from one of my computers. Note that I use SeaMonkey (the older sibling of Firefox) as my browser and, as I said, I'm Linux-only. So I connect via my browser and start poking around. From the dashboard I choose "File Manager" and am HORRIFIED to get this message: "File manager access supported on Internet Explorer only" WTF?!

Did I somehow make a mistake? I thought Android was Linux-based. If it is, what is up with all this windoze-related garbage?

ADDING: If I wanted to use, see, or think about micro$oft products, I'd have windoze on all my computers and I'd have bought a windoze phone. But I don't. I choose Linux deliberately. To say that I'm MASSIVELY unhappy and disappointed seeing windoze crap--especially being unable to use certain features because I don't have IE--on my Android phone is an understatement.

 

[Draiko]

First off, you really should dump your OS bias. Linux has many shortcomings. There's a slew of reasons why Linux doesn't have much market share. You're really limiting yourself. I, for example, like to look at the other OSes and try to figure out what they do right and/or what they do wrong. I am extremely happy with Android and my Evo but the user experience could be a little more fun and the dev experience needs a ton of work, I absolutely despise iOS's walled-garden and restrictiveness but admire much of the UI design and API implementation, and I'm considering a second-gen Windows Phone 7 (or 8) because it marries excellent UX with a wonderful experience for development. It takes half as much time to build a WP7 app vs an Android app.

Second, what did you expect? Windows, as "evil" as it may be, is the most popular OS in the WORLD and you're buying a device that is supposed to function easily for the common consumer. These phones aren't built for you or the Penguin-nazi crowd, they're built for everyone. Deal with it.

 

[MoodyBlues]

Thanks, but no thanks. I'll keep my OS bias. It's served me well for 25+ years--started with UNIX, then Linux--professionally and personally, and I don't plan on changing any time soon.

As for what I expected, um, I expected not to have windoze garbage on my ANDROID phone. I expected not to be unable to access some of its features because I don't use IE. Seems pretty reasonable to me. I have yet to see a Linux distro that makes its features unavailable if you don't use a DIFFERENT operating system's browser. Yep, seems pretty straightforward to me.

 

[AngryHatter]

I'd be interested in model and where you procured the phone.

 

[DroDro]

I don't see any of the things that you mentioned on my phone. It is very important to tell us what phone you are using.

 

[STiGLOGiC]

I'm totally lost here, as there is not a single thing on my phone that has to do with windows.

 

[Guamguy]

Don't make any sense. Furthermore, Motorola is already in a big legal fist fight with Microsoft, suing each other over patents.

Android uses YAFFS (Yet Another Flash File System) for its file system. No Windoze crap here. Android 2.3 Gingerbread moved from YAFFS to Linux ext4 file systems.

 

[reinbeau]

Thanks, but no thanks. I'll keep my OS bias. It's served me well for 25+ years--started with UNIX, then Linux--professionally and personally, and I don't plan on changing any time soon.

As for what I expected, um, I expected not to have windoze garbage on my ANDROID phone. I expected not to be unable to access some of its features because I don't use IE. Seems pretty reasonable to me. I have yet to see a Linux distro that makes its features unavailable if you don't use a DIFFERENT operating system's browser. Yep, seems pretty straightforward to me.

I don't know what's on your phone, but I see no Windows programs on mine, and I've never once been told I had to use IE on anything regarding my phone - I don't use Internet Exploder and I'm not about to start. I smell something under a bridge.

 

[snapper.fishes]

I posted in my phone's sub-forum before it dawned on me that this didn't need to be on a phone-specific board--and since that particular forum doesn't seem to get much activity

Must be some obscure android phone.

 

[EarlyMon]

First - that phone portal feature was added by Motorola and they could have made that specific to anything they wanted. Blame Motorola, not Android. Change your UA in your browser - you must be used to that by now with Sea Monkey.

Second, running Win progs on Android is unpossible. What is it that you think you're seeing that are win progs?

Third, what is it you're looking for inside your phone OS?

Must be some obscure android phone.

http://www.motorola.com/Consumers/U...ile-Phones/Motorola-BRAVO-with-MOTOBLUR-US-EN

AT&T, no contract. It's only been out for a short while.

 

[takeshi]

For one thing, as soon as I started exploring its file system [via USB connection to one of my computers], I saw something shocking: windoze programs. Huh? What the heck are windoze programs doing on my Android?

What programs?

Did I somehow make a mistake? I thought Android was Linux-based. If it is, what is up with all this windoze-related garbage?

It's what the majority of consumers run. You don't have to use the phone portal if it doesn't meet your needs.

 

[PSkeptic]

Is it possibly built-in driver installers? Kind of like how most cell data cards have now?

As for your OS Bias? Keep it I have it too, and use Winderz for work only, because it's demanded by work.

 

[lordofthereef]

Is "windoze" supposed to be derogatory to windows in some way? I assume so, but don't get it.

 

[mrmojoz]

I don't see anything about Android in this guys post. He seems to be ranting about Motorola and Windows.

 

[EarlyMon]

Is "windoze" supposed to be derogatory to windows in some way? I assume so, but don't get it.

Yeah, that and Micro$oft are old time terms. We used to use it when we'd complain about things, as in - "my windoze registry is messed up again" - and no one would notice. A few years after the dot-com days, OS X and Linux gained greater prominence and now those are often flaming terms.

C'mon - we've probably all had days when configuring something once again in Windows would put a statue to sleep - windoze.

Now that we communicate on teh interwebs, everything is srsly biznus.

 

[txrxio]

My Incredible shipped with an HTC sync manager in the top level directory, which was a windows program. I tried it out, found it was rubbish, uninstalled from PC and deleted from phone. I guess that program is similar to the "phone portal" that the OP was referring to. Now I just drag and drop files onto the phone using explorer, which I'm pretty sure I can do with linux too since I'm always using mass storage devices on that, I guess I'll try it out at the weekend.

EDIT: Yep, it works fine as a USB storage device on Ubuntu 6

 

[lordofthereef]

Yeah, that and Micro$oft are old time terms. We used to use it when we'd complain about things, as in - "my windoze registry is messed up again" - and no one would notice. A few years after the dot-com days, OS X and Linux gained greater prominence and now those are often flaming terms.

C'mon - we've probably all had days when configuring something once again in Windows would put a statue to sleep - windoze.

Now that we communicate on teh interwebs, everything is srsly biznus.

I get Micro$oft, but not Windoze. I guess I never had huge issues with Windows (except ME, there was nothing good about that) and I have been a Windows user since 3.1. I suppose it's possible I simply haven't been doing anything remotely "advanced" prior to XP and on.

 

[EarlyMon]

I get Micro$oft, but not Windoze. I guess I never had huge issues with Windows (except ME, there was nothing good about that) and I have been a Windows user since 3.1. I suppose it's possible I simply haven't been doing anything remotely "advanced" prior to XP and on.

I just came across an old post, and while in the neighborhood, want to repost the sentiment - I use OS X, Windows and Linux, and I find all of them lacking. When Steve Jobs or Bill Gates starts writing me checks, then I'll care and get defensive - but until then, I care more about my brand of spark plugs. I really, really do.

If you've been using Windows since 3.1 then you've had issues, but like all of us with operating systems, you work with what you got and don't think about it. (C'mon - all networking stuff was way easier for years in Linux or OS X until Windows started to catch on to easier configs. Reboot to get network settings to take? Really? Yeah - windoze. Like that.)

I like the diminutive, windoze, because it's a reminder to not take things too seriously. But I'm the kinda guy that if you meet in real life and you call me knucklehead, I'm gonna smile and answer to it.

For others, those MS/Win terms are intended with invective, so I've learned to avoid using them because they've lost their old-time charm. Pity, tho.

PS - when the OP, moodyblues, comes back to help us to understand the issues we might help with, we'll need to drop the side-topic stuff.

Thanks, but no thanks. I'll keep my OS bias. It's served me well for 25+ years--started with UNIX, then Linux--professionally and personally, and I don't plan on changing any time soon.

As for what I expected, um, I expected not to have windoze garbage on my ANDROID phone. I expected not to be unable to access some of its features because I don't use IE. Seems pretty reasonable to me. I have yet to see a Linux distro that makes its features unavailable if you don't use a DIFFERENT operating system's browser. Yep, seems pretty straightforward to me.

Many of us have that time in service and more with *nix, so it's not that we need have some issues on principle.

Your phone is newer, we initially think your observables can be dealt with and your conclusions (not your observables, your conclusions) may be in error.

For example - my phone comes with Windows syncing software that I never use, because I tend to use OS X with my phone (a convenient platform that ties to my BSD development days). Out of the box, you'd think my phone was Windows-centric for syncing and general use - naturally because of OS market share, they market that point. But the many happy Linux and OS X users of my model prove otherwise.

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I downloaded your user guide - the Motorola Phone Portal (MPP) feature begin on page 39.

If as you say, they're sending you back a browser incompatible message, then they're lying - it says on page 39, you can use MPP with any browser. (OK, not the first time any of these guys have lied in a user's guide. )

Then, on page 40, they say it works best with IE 7 and javascript and cookies enabled.

Uh - ok, that's kinda lame, all the way around - but that's a Motorola add-on, not Android per se.

These two resources may help with your Sea Monkey UA spoofing to walk past that barrier:

http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=2023085

http://seamonkey.ilias.ca/browserfaq/UAspoofing

I'll leave cookies and javascript config support up to you.

Let me know if that works out.

That just leaves the Win components you think you're seeing. Here's the whole under the hood story if you want to poke around a bit - I'm starting you at the SDK, but everything ought link or tab out and link from there. I think you'll see from this info why we're kinda sure it's unpossible to have win components under the Android hood here -

http://developer.android.com/sdk/index.html

I dunno - doubtful, but anything's possible - Motorola may have packaged some Win/USB drivers or something on the phone to help out those with those kind of config issues. In such a case (and I totally guessed at it) that would be a distribution convenience for Win users and not needed by Android per se.

PS - Consider Google Maps as an alternative to AT&T Nav, btw.

PPS - Hung a Thanks! on PSkeptics' post not for the OS stuff but for the idea about including driver installers. Probably I picked that up subconsciously - I was derailed by the OS chatter myself.

Anymore of that, I'm deleting it - including mine.

 

[MoodyBlues]

Sorry for not giving more info in my OP. Like I said, I originally posted in my phone's subforum and then copied/pasted that post here...and didn't think about having no reference to my model in the post. It's a Motorola Bravo and I have AT&T.

As for the M$ crap I'm seeing on it, like I said, when I connect the phone via USB to one of my computers, there they are. Specifically, I choose "Portal and tools" from the "USB connection" menu (on the phone), and then on my computer, in /media/Motorola, there are four files: Autorun.inf, config.ini, MotoHelper_2.0.24_Driver_4.7.1.exe and setup.exe

Also as noted in my OP, when I use the phone's "Phone portal" to access the phone via browser on a computer, (by entering http://192.168.2.102:8080 as its URL), choosing "File manager" from the "Moto Phone Portal" dashboard (on the computer), I get this message: "File manager access supported on Internet Explorer only"

Of all the things I DIDN'T expect on an Android phone, windows programs and being told that only IE is supported are definitely at the top of the list.

 

[EarlyMon]

OK - that junk is as PSkeptic and I suspected - a distribution convenience for the masses.

If that's on your SD card, make a backup of that area for now (in case you ever want to sell or trade the phone later) and just delete it. That's marketing the convenience of Motorola Windows support and really isn't required by Android.

Just curious - the /media thing implied root access on your machine - they didn't actually copy that cruft over to your root partition did they?!?


~~~~

See my post above yours, I've deleted the off-topic chatter (including mine) and check out how to change your UA string in Sea Monkey to tell Motorola's tool to sit down and shut up.


~~~~

Normal Android phones have an option to use USB as storage. If you choose that when connecting via USB cable, your normal mount/umount habits will apply.

~~~~

PPS - If you're unhappy with the idea of changing Sea Monkey's UA string, then maybe a quick download of Firefox to see if it works with that will tell you if it's just UA nonsense as I suspect.

 

[EarlyMon]

Oh, I just remembered - I had this same sort of connectivity issue on a Samsung Moment.

If you want to file browse and xfer stuff back and forth with your Linux box and there's no other work-around because Motorola decided to get in the way with their help - then you can install either Astro File Manager or AndFTP, both free in the Market and connect to your Linux machine _from_ the phone and do whatever file xfers you like.

File browsing is more convenient in Astro, file xfers is quicker in AndFTP. I still use both.

If that's not to your liking and you can't get that MPP to sit down and shut up, you can simply install a straightforward http server on your phone and still access things and manage them from Sea Monkey. Here's one that will work:

kWS - Android Web Server - Android app on AppBrain - that's free and you get that from the Market, too.

Android is a Linux port. There's nothing that Motorola did to cripple the phone that can't be worked around.

 

[MoodyBlues]

OK - that junk is as PSkeptic and I suspected - a distribution convenience for the masses.

If that's on your SD card, make a backup of that area for now (in case you ever want to sell or trade the phone later) and just delete it. That's marketing the convenience of Motorola Windows support and really isn't required by Android.

Okay. Good to know. I'll just delete them.

Just curious - the /media thing implied root access on your machine - they didn't actually copy that cruft over to your root partition did they?!?

No, not at all. When a device is plugged in and detected by the OS, it creates an entry for it so it can be accessed. Nothing is physically copied over.

See my post above yours, I've deleted the off-topic chatter (including mine)

Thanks.

and check out how to change your UA string in Sea Monkey to tell Motorola's tool to sit down and shut up.

I know very well how to change the UA string, but it's my habit *never* to spoof being an IE user. For example, when web sites used to insist on IE in order to access them, I could've easily spoofed using IE but I chose not to. Instead, I complained to the sites, pointed them to the Any Browser Campaign, and told them I wouldn't be back until they did away with their stupid conditions.

Normal Android phones have an option to use USB as storage. If you choose that when connecting via USB cable, your normal mount/umount habits will apply.

The funny thing about this is that I don't even really care about using the 'phone portal' feature, as I prefer to just access everything via my normal means--but it pissed me off that while exploring all the nifty features on my new phone I came across something that wouldn't work without IE. Took me totally by surprise. And pissed me off!

PPS - If you're unhappy with the idea of changing Sea Monkey's UA string, then maybe a quick download of Firefox to see if it works with that will tell you if it's just UA nonsense as I suspect.

Oh, I have Firefox--and about 20 other browsers--but SeaMonkey is my favorite and since it's always running I prefer to just use it.

Thanks for your input.

 

[EarlyMon]

Hey, no prob - mystery solved. Motorola decided to make this as easy as they could for Windows users, for whatever reason.

If you avoid the MPP stuff, you should be fine. Check out those file managers and http server, btw, pretty good stuff.

BTW - if your phone has a camera, it may already have a sdcard/DCIM subdir (digital camera image storage area - that's a standard, and btw, all your snaps will go in there) and some other stuff. There may be something there like that letting your OS revision decide to mount the phone under media. Just helpfully guessing.

Best luck with your new Android phone - chances are you'll grow to like Android a lot.