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Was Karl Marx Right?

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FTFY ;)
 
Marx talked a lot about working and wages, etc, in the same ways that Peewee Herman talked about being an astronaut.

Marx never worked, never earned a wage, could not even support his family, to the point of four of his seven children dying at childhood due to lack of support and nutrition.

Heck of a "thinker," though, pointing his finger at anybody who'd earned their way to the top as entrepreneurs, etc, labeling them various wicked things along with the system itself that allowed them to rise to the top.

The most overblown hack that ever lived, and he's revered to this day by the likes of Castro and a few of the early Russian leaders of the U.S.S.R. pre-collapse era.
 
Respectfully sir, I am not sure one must be a successful businessman, business owner, or successful in life itself to recognize issues and corruption in all of the above. Takes a little bit more to be an astronaut than to understand an economy and how it works in that one can be largely self taught while the other not.

I always love it when I critique something, say a dance performance, and I am told "if you are so good, do it better!" My answer: "I don't know that I can do better. In fact I may likely do worse. But that doesn't mean I can't recognize SH^& when I see it!" ;)
 
Born into a wealthy middle class family in Trier, Prussia, Marx went on to study at both the University of Bonn and the University of Berlin, where he became interested in the philosophical ideas of the Young Hegelians. In 1836, he became engaged to Jenny von Westphalen, marrying her in 1843. Following the completion of his studies, he became a journalist in Cologne, writing for a radical newspaper, the Rheinische Zeitung, where he began to use Hegelian concepts of dialectical materialism to influence his ideas on socialism. Moving to Paris in 1843, he began writing for other radical newspapers, the Deutsch-Franz
 
He was a lazy fool, plagiarist and dreamer. His education enabled his lofty sayings to become book length, of course, and his systems have failed where ever they've begun, from Russia to China to Cuba, etc, each degenerating into faux capitalism, the dangerous kind of capitalism that immediately installs an elite and causes black markets to flourish.

The prisons filled and over flowed in Marxist-Leninist lead systems, not full of criminals but "enemies of the state."

No system is absolutely perfect, capitalism included, but his make goofy, childish promises which tug at the hearts of any poor person, elevating them to an almost hero level so that they can be rallied to take up arms against who ever happens to be in charge.
 
His systems have failed. 100% fact. That doesn't mean that nothing he said had merit. We aren't sitting here saying that his ideas of communism are gospel (or even good or correct). We are discussing a very specific statement made by him regarding capitalism, are we not? Why don't we discuss the text in the original post and point to what is goofy, childish, (and any other thing) about it then?
 
Since we are taking stabs at Marx (and I am not necessarily a fan of him, but I feel it must be said)... he wrote of his ideas and published them, but you claim he did not work. Are authors lazy fools that also do not work too then? I will answer my own question by saying that I certainly do not think you are implying this, but honestly, what's the difference?
 
Karl Marx lived in a perfect time for his rhetoric to capture the imagination of working poor. He was surrounded by people who had experienced the worst aspects of the primitive sort of capitalism that existed then and there.

That rhetoric was not new, either, but it was well placed and the anger of "the proletariat," the people who made things, fixed things, grew things, etc was ripe for exploitation.

Right now China is a great example of failed communism/socialism. Cuba has been for decades and is just now coming to grips with the understanding that free market trade/capitalism is necessary for the country's survival.

China is a fake communist society, though, one that is capitalist in function of late, but communist/socialist where it's convenient to herd people to jail who want a piece of the action or just free speech.

Marxism's apologist always say that it's never been fully implemented "correctly," as we strain to see just what example they have of that being even possible.

That's the "fool" part of the whole thing: idealism. Marx might have well have written about a Utopia where robots make and build everything for us, a notion that leaves out one important thing: the little matter of reality in the real world.
 
Frisco said:
Karl Marx lived in a perfect time for his rhetoric to capture the imagination of working poor. ....
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"While Marx remained a relatively unknown figure in his own lifetime, his ideas and the ideology of Marxism began to exert a major influence on socialist movements shortly after his death."

Karl's timing sucked. Just think of the copyright royalties he left on the table.
 
Frisco said:
... but his make goofy, childish promises which tug at the hearts of any poor person, elevating them to an almost hero level so that they can be rallied to take up arms against who ever happens to be in charge.
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You got that right, "in this new society the self-alienation would end, and humans would be free to act without being bound by the labour market.[99] It would be a democratic society, enfranchising the entire population.[114] In such a utopian world there would also be little if any need for a state, which goal was to enforce the alienation."

Damn libertarian.
 
Karl Marx was a political philosopher, in exactly the same line of work as Confucius, Socrates, Descartes, Machiavelli, Hume, JS Mill et al. Like them he expounded a political system of thought, nothing more. Like them also, his lofty ideals turned to dust at the hands of politicians and other self-interested bodies. ;)

Btw, I'm pretty sure that Karl would take great exception to being judged purely on "Marxist-Leninism". Even a cursory reading of Das Kapital shows a humanity and fundamental concern for all individuals that was lacking under Lenin's regime.

p.s. to answer the topic title, yes he probably was..... up to a point.
 
Frisco,
It seems to me you are judging everything Marx ever said, and not simply what is being stated in the original thread. This thread isn't titled "Was Marx Right About Communism Being the Answer?" for a reason. That reason is because that is not the topic of the discussion, or at least it is not intended to be. I find it largely irrelevant what his life was like, or why he said what he said. If a single sentence out of the thousand applies to our situation as a nation today, should it be discredited because those other 999 statements are known to be false?
 
Frisco said:
... No system is absolutely perfect, capitalism included ...
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The praise he gave to capitalism would make Milton Friedman blush.

"Marx's view of capitalism was two sided.[2][88] On one hand, Marx, in the 19th century's deepest critique of the dehumanising aspects of this system, noted that defining features of capitalism include alienation, exploitation and reoccurring, cyclical depressions leading to mass unemployment; on the other hand capitalism is also characterised by "revolutionizing, industrializing and universalizing qualities of development, growth and progressivity" (by which Marx meant industrialisation, urbanisation, technological progress, increased productivity and growth, rationality and scientific revolution), that are responsible for progress.[2][88][111] Marx considered the capitalist class to be one of the most revolutionary in history, because it constantly improved the means of production, more so than any other class in history, and was responsible for the overthrow of feudalism and its transition to capitalism.[114][134] Capitalism can stimulate considerable growth because the capitalist can, and has an incentive to, reinvest profits in new technologies and capital equipment.[124]
 
Frisco said:
Karl Marx lived in a perfect time for his rhetoric to capture the imagination of working poor. He was surrounded by people who had experienced the worst aspects of the primitive sort of capitalism that existed then and there.

That rhetoric was not new, either, but it was well placed and the anger of "the proletariat," the people who made things, fixed things, grew things, etc was ripe for exploitation.

Right now China is a great example of failed communism/socialism. Cuba has been for decades and is just now coming to grips with the understanding that free market trade/capitalism is necessary for the country's survival.

China is a fake communist society, though, one that is capitalist in function of late, but communist/socialist where it's convenient to herd people to jail who want a piece of the action or just free speech.

Marxism's apologist always say that it's never been fully implemented "correctly," as we strain to see just what example they have of that being even possible.

That's the "fool" part of the whole thing: idealism. Marx might have well have written about a Utopia where robots make and build everything for us, a notion that leaves out one important thing: the little matter of reality in the real world.
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So so true!

He (Karl) lived in a bit of a fantasy world most of the time.

Communism has failed miserably (Cold War Proved this).

I also totally agree with you that there is no perfect form of government because human beings are faaaaar from perfect.

Karl in all his ideas and thoughts forgot one very important thing sadly:

Human Nature ;)
 
In Capital: Critique of Political Economy (1867), Karl Marx proposes that the motivating force of capitalism is in the exploitation of labour, whose unpaid work is the ultimate source of profit and surplus value. The employer can claim right to the profits (new output value), because he or she owns the productive capital assets (means of production), which are legally protected by the State through property rights. In producing capital (money) rather than commodities (goods and services), the workers continually reproduce the economic conditions by which they labour. WIKI

Frisco said:
Karl Marx lived in a perfect time for his rhetoric to capture the imagination of working poor. He was surrounded by people who had experienced the worst aspects of the primitive sort of capitalism that existed then and there.

That rhetoric was not new, either, but it was well placed and the anger of "the proletariat," the people who made things, fixed things, grew things, etc was ripe for exploitation.
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You seem to be implying that this was a grand plan to exploit the masses, when in fact the people who made things were already being severely exploited.

Frisco said:
Right now China is a great example of failed communism/socialism. Cuba has been for decades and is just now coming to grips with the understanding that free market trade/capitalism is necessary for the country's survival.
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Once again, this is not an endorsement of communism. Your example of China simply points out that power structures, regardless of their type, have a tendency to be abusive and work to suit their own purposes.

If you want to talk about systems that work, there a number of social democracies in Europe that have high standards of living, tremendous social programs, and some of the happiest people on the planet living comfortably within them.
 
One has to admit that there is indeed a flaw in the way capitalism works. All of these companies and markets are expected by investors to grow and keep growing. At some point, it will all come crashing down. Investing is just one big game to make sure you're not the last one holding the bag. Which means corporations are just about the same way. Make your money then get out before it collapses.
 
Like I said, I think Marx was right up to a point. As quoted in the OP,

"Karl Marx had it right," Roubini said in an interview with wsj.com. "At some point capitalism can self-destroy itself.
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Being that we are so wedded globally to a capitalist system, I envisage it reinventing itself rather than self-destructing. Marx's vision of a proletarian revolution is a non-starter these days - the world is firmly capitalist, even those parts which ostensibly espouse the system.
 
No, marx's had an agenda with his writings. The out come of capitalism can be anything, including capitalism. In a simple economy, marx had it right. But in a complex society, no one can predict want the out come is.

He predicted that capitalism would replace by socialism, but as we see in the real world, socialism is being replaced by capitalism.
 
RiverOfIce said:
... He predicted that capitalism would replace by socialism, but as we see in the real world, socialism is being replaced by capitalism.
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Is it now ? Social security, medicare/medicaid, healthcare, etc.. It looks more mixed to me. Each time we have a market failure the eventual result is more socialistic institutions are established.

Then again, humans tend to want to control it's environment, by use of housing, clothes, etc. and humans are social animals.

Anyway, think capitalism, socialism, etc... are used more as marketing tools for those seeking, or holding power.
 
batgeek said:
mixed economy under one party rule really isn't true communism/socialism. they understood that a true comm/soc system would not work for them so they adapeted(capitulated?) to a more economically world friendly capitalistic model.
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Or they read Marx and realized they 1st must go though the capitalist stage ? ;)
 
money is power. if economic philosophy doesn't fit political philosophy, one must change their economic philosophy to be viable.

they've been communist since when? now they have a capitalistic economic philosophy. are we to expect they are to go back to the relatively truer communism of their past? if so....they are doing it wrong. :D
 
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