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Why Android is a failure
- Thread starter MoebusNet
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chanchan05
The Doctor
1. Windows Phone 7 is not "shudder" inducing. Especially 8. Its an entirely new setup compared to what you left in 2006, and is considered what is the smoothest and arguably prettiest interface among current OS available. A single core Nokia Lumia 800 is as smooth, or even smoother than a dual core iPhone 4S or Galaxy SII. The only thing holding it back is the number of apps, which is fast growing. Currently it sits at 100,000 apps, a milestone it achieved faster than the iPhone did. Analysts say that by 2015, its a three horse race. In some countries outside the US, Windows Phone 7 is already outselling the iPhone. In fact in China, I read a report say that the margin of sales between iPhone and WP7 is at 7%, in favor of Microsoft.
2.Reading through your arguments, Its the same arguments someone can make about Windows on desktops, yet Windows is still the most successful OS out there.
3. Androids work. Its no coincidence when its share is continuously growing. And of course it will plateau, its one of those laws of economics. Android, has no capability of totally killing off Apple, and vice versa.
2.Reading through your arguments, Its the same arguments someone can make about Windows on desktops, yet Windows is still the most successful OS out there.
3. Androids work. Its no coincidence when its share is continuously growing. And of course it will plateau, its one of those laws of economics. Android, has no capability of totally killing off Apple, and vice versa.
From a developer perspective, the barrier to entry is the fee to get their apps listed on the respective official app store. If levied a annual renewable fee of US$100 vs a one-time off fee of US$25 it is simple maths who the developer chooses. Windows will be similar and they can limit the number of apps you are allowed to release. They would say this is control to get more quality apps but the argument can go vice versa isn't it ?
In general, Google Android model provide 'life' to solo developers although at the price of "fragmentation" as what a lot of users say. There is no perfect combination we just live with it.
At the end of it all, let users decide the fate of each OS. Should apps be dominated by big players only or they will also welcome solo developers offering in the mix to offer a variety of apps to serve user daily needs?
My humble opinion.
In general, Google Android model provide 'life' to solo developers although at the price of "fragmentation" as what a lot of users say. There is no perfect combination we just live with it.
At the end of it all, let users decide the fate of each OS. Should apps be dominated by big players only or they will also welcome solo developers offering in the mix to offer a variety of apps to serve user daily needs?
My humble opinion.
B
Bnice
Guest
I stop reading after Android doesn't work. What world are you living in, Android activate a million device a day so how is it a failure?. Many spent so many time to blame the OS when at times it can be said the user has fail as well.
Stuntman
Android Expert
Apparently Apples attempt to control every aspect of their devices down to the apps does not work as well as they would lead you to believe. Apps in iOS crashes more often than Android apps as indicated in this Forbes article: Do iOS Apps Crash More Than Android Apps? A Data Dive - Forbes
Even though they curate the apps that are available in iOS, they apparently are not more stable than Android apps.
Even though they curate the apps that are available in iOS, they apparently are not more stable than Android apps.
damewolf13
live~laugh~love
Android is not for everyone. It's not supposed to be.
There are enough platforms out there that I am sure if you keep trying, you will find the right one for you. I am pretty sure that the majority of this community feels it is right for them, imperfections and all, and they don't see Android as a failure. It is a work in progress, and I for one can't wait to see where that progress takes us.
There are enough platforms out there that I am sure if you keep trying, you will find the right one for you. I am pretty sure that the majority of this community feels it is right for them, imperfections and all, and they don't see Android as a failure. It is a work in progress, and I for one can't wait to see where that progress takes us.
Ok, I am sorry but the analogies and analysis in the op are beyond wooly.
You want to liken different handset Androids to different Linux distributions?
Fine.
Then you compare Ubuntu to Fedora and Gentoo, not Ubuntu on different PCs. LoL
And I am uncomfortable with your rooting history beginning 10 days ago, so maybe you don't understand Android organization as well as you think.
Your information that Google forked Linux is accurate but dated and incomplete. Google contributions have made their rendezvous back with the mainline.
Android = Linux + Dalvik Virtual Machine + apps that run within the Dalvik and use Linux services
100% of all Android devices are built that way.
And you don't trace through the os for app development on any Linux (unless engaging in systems programming) so your criticisms on that are without merit.
I speak as a kernel, systems, and Linux applications developer for the semiconductor industry.
And I interact with several Linux distributions every day, so what you claim as fragmentation unique to Android, I exploit as variety common to Linux.
I'm afraid that your edgy post with an expectation that the only possible rebuttals being flames has missed its mark because your assessments are somewhat less than technically accurate.
If you'd like to learn more about Android and Linux, just ask, many of us will be happy to educate you and help get some of those concepts untangled so that you can learn why the rest of us find it far from failing.
Now - what would you like to know?
PS - links to my posts dispelling the Apple Store myths passed on as facts cheerfully available upon request.
You want to liken different handset Androids to different Linux distributions?
Fine.
Then you compare Ubuntu to Fedora and Gentoo, not Ubuntu on different PCs. LoL
And I am uncomfortable with your rooting history beginning 10 days ago, so maybe you don't understand Android organization as well as you think.
Your information that Google forked Linux is accurate but dated and incomplete. Google contributions have made their rendezvous back with the mainline.
Android = Linux + Dalvik Virtual Machine + apps that run within the Dalvik and use Linux services
100% of all Android devices are built that way.
And you don't trace through the os for app development on any Linux (unless engaging in systems programming) so your criticisms on that are without merit.
I speak as a kernel, systems, and Linux applications developer for the semiconductor industry.
And I interact with several Linux distributions every day, so what you claim as fragmentation unique to Android, I exploit as variety common to Linux.
I'm afraid that your edgy post with an expectation that the only possible rebuttals being flames has missed its mark because your assessments are somewhat less than technically accurate.
If you'd like to learn more about Android and Linux, just ask, many of us will be happy to educate you and help get some of those concepts untangled so that you can learn why the rest of us find it far from failing.
Now - what would you like to know?
PS - links to my posts dispelling the Apple Store myths passed on as facts cheerfully available upon request.
chanchan05
The Doctor
@EarlyMon, I'm curious about these "myths"... 
@EarlyMon, I'm curious about these "myths"...
http://androidforums.com/lounge/510892-google-market-vs-apple-store.html#post4038617
http://androidforums.com/lounge/494401-android-more-stable-than-ios-phandroid-article.html
About fragmentation differences -
Indeed.
For those with apps for the forum, or just in a hurry, here's the tl/dr snapshot -
Because the pie has so many slices, it's a little hard to see the arrows, but basically, it's showing well over of 75% of crashes monitored going to iDevices.
The other thing that's interesting is that Apple propaganda to the contrary, people are not marching along in lockstep with their iOS updates and therefore, iOS is every bit as fragmented as Android.
So, that's two myths killed for the price of one.
So, iOS is running a whole lot of revisions, it's a myth that everyone runs the same one. As I recall, it's 20-something iOS revs vs. 30-something for Android, so if Android is fragmented then so is IOS. Both are as crash prone and both require user vigilance for security, no one else is going to do that for you.
But with Android you get more choices for good hardware and good software setups.
Myths busted?
And this is new, so let's give its own post, passed on to me by IOWA (big nod) -
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/07/13/apple_ios_hack/
I take as an article of faith that Android security fails are already well-accepted in truth and common folklore, but Apple safety and surety continues to be a marketing myth, as that article is one day old.
Note, no jailbreaking required.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/07/13/apple_ios_hack/
I take as an article of faith that Android security fails are already well-accepted in truth and common folklore, but Apple safety and surety continues to be a marketing myth, as that article is one day old.
Note, no jailbreaking required.
Wait.
The new iOS gives the features found in Android 1.6 and Sense 1.0.
The new iPhone achieves the perfection of the HTC Hero from 2009.
So you don't need to get a Nexus to keep up with an iPhone, because they have just about updated to Android circa 2010 with their so-called timely updates.
The op owns a Rezound, absolutely nothing to sneeze at.
However, if you want to get the latest from Google, then I agree 100%, a Nexus is the answer.
And either way, root is the answer. In my opinion.
The new iOS gives the features found in Android 1.6 and Sense 1.0.
The new iPhone achieves the perfection of the HTC Hero from 2009.
So you don't need to get a Nexus to keep up with an iPhone, because they have just about updated to Android circa 2010 with their so-called timely updates.
The op owns a Rezound, absolutely nothing to sneeze at.
However, if you want to get the latest from Google, then I agree 100%, a Nexus is the answer.
And either way, root is the answer. In my opinion.
dr g
Android Enthusiast
I believe this is revisionist history. The iPhone did not dominate the smartphone market when Android was developed. It did not really earn that mantle until late 2008-early 2009. Symbian and Windows Mobile dominated the smartphone market then.
It's actually arguable whether apple ever really "dominated" the smartphone market. They showed remarkable growth and income, which made their business model "dominant."
Excellent catch.
That meme came straight from Apple spin control in the media.
That meme came straight from Apple spin control in the media.
I just want to know where the consumer is going to find the MeeGo phones the OP suggests they'll migrate to?
steveulent
Newbie
In reply to the OP who started this thread -
Some of your arguments are accurate, but I don't agree with your conclusions.
Certainly, android is very fragmented. I don't think that the issue of customised versions on different devices is that big a problem, though - okay, there are things like the kindle fire, which are sorta semi-android devices. But, generally, most people don't change phones frequently enough for the issue of learning as new GUI to be a problem.
Android has certainly got serious fragmentation issues, but that's because people don't update. I'm on the galaxy ace running gingerbread 2.3.7, for example, and I'm told my phone won't even be able to run ICS, which makes the customer feel they've spent lotsa money on a product that's already obsolete.
In terms of user experience, however, android certainly works. I don't like being a cheerleader for a big capitalist organisation like Google or Samsung, but they've produced a product that does everything I need at a cost I can just about afford.
So, for me, android certainly works. And sales figures indicate that lotsa people out there think android works, too. . .
(Btw - totally off-topic - just tried Swype-beta. . . isn't it lovely!)
Some of your arguments are accurate, but I don't agree with your conclusions.
Certainly, android is very fragmented. I don't think that the issue of customised versions on different devices is that big a problem, though - okay, there are things like the kindle fire, which are sorta semi-android devices. But, generally, most people don't change phones frequently enough for the issue of learning as new GUI to be a problem.
Android has certainly got serious fragmentation issues, but that's because people don't update. I'm on the galaxy ace running gingerbread 2.3.7, for example, and I'm told my phone won't even be able to run ICS, which makes the customer feel they've spent lotsa money on a product that's already obsolete.
In terms of user experience, however, android certainly works. I don't like being a cheerleader for a big capitalist organisation like Google or Samsung, but they've produced a product that does everything I need at a cost I can just about afford.
So, for me, android certainly works. And sales figures indicate that lotsa people out there think android works, too. . .
(Btw - totally off-topic - just tried Swype-beta. . . isn't it lovely!)
Before these touchscreen smartphones came along, I don't recall phone manufacturers ever giving users root access to the phone OS by default, so I'm not sure why you expect them to give users root access on a smartphone OS. I'm certainly not for it. Hell, I don't even want most desktop/laptop users to have root access by default (if they're tech-savvy enough to boot a Linux live CD to reset the password or boot Mac OS X into single-user mode and gain admin access, then it makes sense for them to have such access). If they didn't malware would be a lot harder to proliferate!
That said, after I experienced my first HTC Sense overlay phone and then saw how little rom support my phone was getting, I swore my next Android phone would be a Nexus phone. I bought a Galaxy Nexus, and I will never go back to a non-Nexus Android again. Even without root access, the Nexus gives you the pure Android experience Google intended, but it is also extremely easy to root, and there is a ton of rom development for this phone and will be for much longer than other non-Nexus phones released around the same time.
Anyone complaining about so-called "fragmentation" should just buy a Nexus phone. Seriously. Money talks. Articles, blog posts, and forum threads complaining about "fragmentation" do nothing to change the industry. If HTC, Motorola, Samsung, LG, etc. see that Android users are buying Nexus phones in droves, they will all make their phones vanilla Android within a month.
I love my Macbook Pro. Never been tempted by the iPhone, though, even jailbroken. I'll tell you without jailbreaking, the iPhone is seriously crippled. You can't even change your default web browser! You can't integrate Google Voice into the phone dialer! It's insane. Unless you love iTunes, Safari, and just about everything else Apple or unless you're willing to jailbreak (and then jailbreak again and then jailbreak again with every OS update), the iPhone is a terribly limiting choice.
That said, after I experienced my first HTC Sense overlay phone and then saw how little rom support my phone was getting, I swore my next Android phone would be a Nexus phone. I bought a Galaxy Nexus, and I will never go back to a non-Nexus Android again. Even without root access, the Nexus gives you the pure Android experience Google intended, but it is also extremely easy to root, and there is a ton of rom development for this phone and will be for much longer than other non-Nexus phones released around the same time.
Anyone complaining about so-called "fragmentation" should just buy a Nexus phone. Seriously. Money talks. Articles, blog posts, and forum threads complaining about "fragmentation" do nothing to change the industry. If HTC, Motorola, Samsung, LG, etc. see that Android users are buying Nexus phones in droves, they will all make their phones vanilla Android within a month.
I love my Macbook Pro. Never been tempted by the iPhone, though, even jailbroken. I'll tell you without jailbreaking, the iPhone is seriously crippled. You can't even change your default web browser! You can't integrate Google Voice into the phone dialer! It's insane. Unless you love iTunes, Safari, and just about everything else Apple or unless you're willing to jailbreak (and then jailbreak again and then jailbreak again with every OS update), the iPhone is a terribly limiting choice.
zuben el genub
Extreme Android User
If Android is Linux - then they are supposed to share and put stuff back if true to the foundations of Linux.
Blame the carriers for the fragmentation. Ever looked at a Nexus? Not much there. The carriers want apps for customers' convenience and to make money. If you don't use the carrier's music service, you aren't using data, and the carrier can't charge you. Same for FB updates. Saw a post the other day - GSM carriers will get updates sooner as the main info is on the SIM.
Why are so many rooting, otherwise? I'd like a survey or post from a survey:
Root - get rid of bloat
Root - for more nerdy reasons like overclocking, SU, etc.
Blame the carriers for the fragmentation. Ever looked at a Nexus? Not much there. The carriers want apps for customers' convenience and to make money. If you don't use the carrier's music service, you aren't using data, and the carrier can't charge you. Same for FB updates. Saw a post the other day - GSM carriers will get updates sooner as the main info is on the SIM.
Why are so many rooting, otherwise? I'd like a survey or post from a survey:
Root - get rid of bloat
Root - for more nerdy reasons like overclocking, SU, etc.
OverByter
Resident Slide Rule Guru
Instead of Apple/Big Brother dictating what apps are deemed worthy enough to be on my phone why don't we use the tried and true American way, "Market Forces". What works sells, what doesn't fades away. And Apple attempts to limit fragmentation by utilizing planned obsolescence and only allowing the 3 latest models to be sold. And as far as ui overlays are concerned HTC Sense is probably the "heaviest" on the market but at the same time they tend to push ota updates more than any other manufacturer. Obviously the 2 are not mutually exclusive.
They use a Linux kernel. If you modify the kernel, you need to open your source so that people can use your changes (if they'd like). There's no reason for applications that run on top of the Linux kernel to also be open source, but all of Android the operating system is open source, just not the applications. Even on desktop/laptop Linux, you'll see closed source applications available for installation (e.g., Skype, Opera, Dropbox).
Yeah, but the consumers enable it. As I said before, if most people bought Nexus phones, more handset makers and carriers would include a vanilla Android.
What are you talking about? I don't use the carrier's music service, but I use plenty of data, and the carrier does indeed charge me for data.
I root mainly for the ability to install easy rom mods, use Titanium Backup, and get full functionality out of Tasker. There are other benefits, too. If I advised a non-tech-savvy friend to get an Android phone, I would recommend a Nexus unrooted, though.
Android uses far more than the Linux kernel, it's a complete embedded Linux.
And kernel changes by Google are put back into the Linux mainline as I stated earlier.
And even the Nexus has a history of fragmentation.
Just like the iPhone.
Fragmentation doesn't get solved by the one-model, one-brand approach, that's another myth.
In fact, it's the myth that enables many others.
And kernel changes by Google are put back into the Linux mainline as I stated earlier.
And even the Nexus has a history of fragmentation.
Just like the iPhone.
Fragmentation doesn't get solved by the one-model, one-brand approach, that's another myth.
In fact, it's the myth that enables many others.
shad0wboss
Member
Well, one thing i would like to point out which might be wrong, is that WP phones are smooth because they ain't got "many" services running in the background at the same time and same goes for iOS i suppose? while in android, you have all kind of services running.
A decent android dual core phone which is quite common to purchase and cheap as well, can do just fine when it comes to smoothness and most of the time, due to the bloatware which is pre installed, thanks to the network operators, slows the android OS down but the good thing about android is that it is open sourced and most of the enthusiasts like flashing customized roms and so. It gives an opportunity of learning while enjoying the extra features which the device is capable of providing.
All in all, iOS was designed for "dumb" people who are happy with their settings forever so that they don't even have to look at the screen when calling someone, instead they can touch the bottom left side of the screen to get to phone dial.
I have a couple of friends who've got iphone 4 and it is still sitting there with iOS 4 because they don't know how to update...and that is what apple expects people to do, is to buy their product every year or so in order to keep up with the speed. While android phones which came with cupcake are able to use GB roms, thanks to the devs...and i think this is what's keeping Android alive imo.
A decent android dual core phone which is quite common to purchase and cheap as well, can do just fine when it comes to smoothness and most of the time, due to the bloatware which is pre installed, thanks to the network operators, slows the android OS down but the good thing about android is that it is open sourced and most of the enthusiasts like flashing customized roms and so. It gives an opportunity of learning while enjoying the extra features which the device is capable of providing.
All in all, iOS was designed for "dumb" people who are happy with their settings forever so that they don't even have to look at the screen when calling someone, instead they can touch the bottom left side of the screen to get to phone dial.
I have a couple of friends who've got iphone 4 and it is still sitting there with iOS 4 because they don't know how to update...and that is what apple expects people to do, is to buy their product every year or so in order to keep up with the speed. While android phones which came with cupcake are able to use GB roms, thanks to the devs...and i think this is what's keeping Android alive imo.
And those devs are getting their sources from Google and the manufacturers.
So maybe they are helping to keep Android alive, too.
So maybe they are helping to keep Android alive, too.
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