Root Will Custom ROMs always be "better"?

[John I]

I am really tired of waiting for Froyo. I'm thinking about installing a custom ROM. Initially I figured I might just install one to get me by until the official Froyo comes out (if it ever does). From looking through the description of the custom ROMs (Darky 7.0.2 for example), it looks like these ROMs have some nice goodies that probably won't be available in any official release.

Am I wrong in thinking that the latest custom ROMs will always be "better" than the latest official ROM? When Froyo does release will most people running custom ROMs switch over to official ROMs? Or is it "once you go custom, you never go back?"

Thanks
John

 

[peachpuff]

When Froyo does release will most people running custom ROMs switch over to official ROMs?

They'll just be running custom roms based on the official froyo release. The biggest difference with these custom roms is the kernel features. A lot of these kernel's have added features like 40mb more of free memory, back light notifications and even overclocking.

 

[viny2cool]

by the time official froyo comes out i am sure we will be running gingerbread or completely stable froyo roms...

i dont think anybody who went to custom roms will ever come back...i know i wont..

 

[Timberline]

yes, if for no other reason than they won't be saddled with ATT's bloatware. the best ones will be released after official 2.2 comes out

 

[sremick]

yes, if for no other reason than they won't be saddled with ATT's bloatware. the best ones will be released after official 2.2 comes out

I'm running stock 2.1 without being saddled by AT&T's bloatware.

Overclocking isn't necessarily a good/safe/stable thing and shouldn't be jumped into causally. The ROMs that OC by-default are being rather arrogantly presumptuous regarding hardware support/stability.

I am curious to see what the official 2.2 brings to the table as far as fixes and tweaks for the Captivate's unique hardware... but I'm watching the 2.3 3rd-party ROM progress.

 

[reinbeau]

Well, I gave up and gave into Assonance 5.2 and I have to say I'm loving it. It seems to be rock-steady, it's fast, no lag, it's an entirely different phone, yet it looks just like the one I set up before the flash. I'm very happy with it, the guy who writes it seems to be very deliberate in his testing and puts out a very stable, nice ROM. I know I'll never go back to a stock ROM.

 

[RocketRay]

IMO custom ROMs will always be better than official ones. Official releases don't remove bloatware. New releases come very very slowly. (What's Samsung's motivation to spend money on a new release when you've already bought it?) If there's a bug that's bothering you, it has to bother an awful lot of people before an official release will deal with it.

Custom ROMs come out quite frequently. If you notice a bug, or want something changed, you can let the developer know directly and it'll likely get addressed in a couple weeks. Custom ROMs eliminate bloatware. And they always have shiny, new features.

I like shiny things.

 

[sremick]

Official releases don't remove bloatware.

No... but it's trivial to remove it without going down the path of flashing a custom ROM.

Custom ROMs come out quite frequently. If you notice a bug, or want something changed, you can let the developer know directly and it'll likely get addressed in a couple weeks.

Ok, find me a custom ROM based upon the i9000 kernel that has the following bugs fixed:

• Haptic feedback on home button works
• Bottom button lights come on when screen it touched
• Ringer and notification volumes properly linked
• Slide to call from call log works
• Useless "Self Shot" button on camera app doesn't mess up settings and require reflashing

Those are just the ones that immediately come to mind.

they always have shiny, new features.

Shiny new features that may not work correctly or come at the price of other features not working. It's a compromise, and for whatever reason 99% of ROM authors don't like to be upfront about what does not work in their ROMs... like it's some popularity contest and each is trying to get more Facebook friends or something.

 

[reinbeau]

For the record I have the fixes you mention, and none of those problems (that I've discovered). Going with the 'problem' reports isn't a good way to judge the ROMs, because people who are happy aren't going to be haunting the forums posting the way those do who didn't do their research and/or flashed without taking proper precautions.

 

[sremick]

For the record I have the fixes you mention, and none of those problems (that I've discovered).

What are the "fixes" for all of them? Although some of them are related to 2.2.1 and I see you're on Assonance, which is 2.2-based. So you're saying you don't have any of those issues on Assonance?

Going with the 'problem' reports isn't a good way to judge the ROMs, because people who are happy aren't going to be haunting the forums posting the way those do who didn't do their research and/or flashed without taking proper precautions.

Except when drilled, the ROM author himself admits these are known issues.

 

[Shelbster]

What are the "fixes" for all of them? Although some of them are related to 2.2.1 and I see you're on Assonance, which is 2.2-based. So you're saying you don't have any of those issues on Assonance?

Except when drilled, the ROM author himself admits these are known issues.

There are ROMs based on leaked Captivate 2.2 source, I9000 2.2 source, and I9000 2.2.1 source. I do not believe that the ROMs based on the Captivate source (specifically Cognition) have the bugs you mention.

Regarding the I9000 ROMs, I seem to recall at least one of the I9000 2.2 ROMs fixed the home button haptic feedback problem. I also recall being able to slide my finger to call on the 2.2 based ROMs. I am on a 2.2.1 based ROM now, so my recollection is not great anymore.

Regardless, the bugs that you referenced are trivial to me. (although I have not encountered the camera issue you mention) Whether or not my home button has haptic feedback means nothing to me. Likewise, whether the soft buttons light up when I touch the screen as opposed to when I touch one of the buttons does not affect me in the least. Same thing with having to touch a button to make a phone call vs. sliding on a name in my call log.

However, having essentially a lag free phone, that allows me to use flash along with the other features of froyo, and even provides me with some of the gingerbread features...that means something to me. It is a cost benefit analysis for me. I do not mind the few minor bugs that do not affect my experience in exchange for the features that make my user experience much better.

If you look at the official build of eclair, it has bugs too. It suffers from significant lag, the presence of bloatware (that you need to root in order to remove), poor gps (which some custom ROMs have at least improved upon, etc...You get the point. The official ROM is not bug free, nor are the custom ROMs. But I know what gives me a better user experience.

 

[reinbeau]

What Shelbster said. I have haptic feedback on all the buttons I want it on, my soft buttons light up (I just noticed they do - because I really don't care if they do or not), sliding one way to make calls and the other way to message works on contacts, although I use aTAKEphONE, so I don't do much with the stock dialer. The phone works better than it did on stock, to me, it's a no brainer. I did my research, I read many, many threads over on XDA, at one point I was going to go with Cognition, but the support and stability I saw people reporting on Assonance convinced me to go with that ROM.

As for the author knowing there are issues of course he does - and he fixes the ones that are critical before he fusses with haptic feedback, etc. I admire that in him. I'm looking forward to his continued development efforts. Will I encounter problems? No doubt, but there are lots of helpful people if and or when I do encounter problems.

I have nothing to prove here, because frankly, I don't care if you use a custom ROM or not - but I do care that some are constantly running down the very thought of trying one on for size. Is it a one-way street? Yes, it is. Be very certain you want to go down that road before you do. For me, it's been a lovely drive, and I'm going to enjoy continuing my trip into non-Samsung dependency.

ETA I have no experience with any camera issues, we'll see if I encounter them. I'll report them if I do.

 

[sremick]

There are ROMs based on leaked Captivate 2.2 source, I9000 2.2 source, and I9000 2.2.1 source. I do not believe that the ROMs based on the Captivate source (specifically Cognition) have the bugs you mention.

This is correct. Unfortunately the leaked Captivate 2.2 is quite old (beta/alpha quality), and much-surpassed by the general Android improvements found in the i9000-based ROMs. But the i9000 is for different hardware, and so the hardware differences bring different issues to the table.

It will be interesting to see what comes of the custom ROMs once the official Captivate 2.2 is released. Of course, the question is whether Samsung will ever release the source to go along with it...

 

[Shelbster]

This is correct. Unfortunately the leaked Captivate 2.2 is quite old (beta/alpha quality), and much-surpassed by the general Android improvements found in the i9000-based ROMs. But the i9000 is for different hardware, and so the hardware differences bring different issues to the table.

It will be interesting to see what comes of the custom ROMs once the official Captivate 2.2 is released. Of course, the question is whether Samsung will ever release the source to go along with it...

From what I understand, getting source from Samsung will not be an issue. (assuming froyo is ever officially released lol) I think the big question is who will still be developing froyo ROMs if/when the official Captivate froyo comes out. If the developers are successful at porting Gingerbread based on the Nexus S, or if they are even close by the time official froyo comes out, I wonder if any of the really talented developers will still want to develop for froyo.

Seeing first hand what has been done without the proper source, I can only imagine what can be done with official froyo source.

 

[reinbeau]

Seeing first hand what has been done without the proper source, I can only imagine what can be done with official froyo source.

Hear, hear! I'll wager some of us will be on Gingerbread long before Froyo is distributed officially by Samsung.

 

[sremick]

Yeah I've been watching the 2.3 development closely. Exciting stuff. I have little faith of Samsung ever releasing an official 2.3 update for the Captivate.

I don't doubt that 2.2 will be released for the Captivate... but the question is, when and in what condition? I am hoping mostly that there are enough Captivate-specific pieces in the official 2.2 to help bridge the gap and help the devs make the 2.3 ROM from the Nexus S work well on the Captivate. It's been enough of a challenge making the i9000 2.2 ROMs work.

 

[Shelbster]

Yeah I've been watching the 2.3 development closely. Exciting stuff. I have little faith of Samsung ever releasing an official 2.3 update for the Captivate.

I don't doubt that 2.2 will be released for the Captivate... but the question is, when and in what condition? I am hoping mostly that there are enough Captivate-specific pieces in the official 2.2 to help bridge the gap and help the devs make the 2.3 ROM from the Nexus S work well on the Captivate. It's been enough of a challenge making the i9000 2.2 ROMs work.

I don't have much faith in Samsung period at this point. Their lack of support for this phone has been eye opening.

I have come to terms with the fact that I bought a phone, and not an operating system. Because of that, I have taken the initiative to make my phone experience as enjoyable as possible. I am really not convinced that an official froyo will ever come out, but I hope I am wrong. Obviously official froyo will have an impact on both rooted and non-rooted users.

Regardless, I can not imagine a scenario in which I buy another samsung phone.

 

[MikeyMike01]

Useless Drivel

 

[sremick]

That's unfortunate, Mike. I actually liked what you were doing with Assonance and look forward to Serendipity.

Please read this:
http://androidforums.com/2090665-post10.html

 

[MikeyMike01]

"Newcomers are left thinking that flashing ROMs is trivial, what everyone does, and utterly without risk."

It is. Odin can save almost anything.

 

[MikeyMike01]

That's unfortunate, Mike. I actually liked what you were doing with Assonance and look forward to Serendipity.

I don't see how you can say that when your list up there:

Ok, find me a custom ROM based upon the i9000 kernel that has the following bugs fixed:

Haptic feedback on home button works
Bottom button lights come on when screen it touched
Ringer and notification volumes properly linked
Slide to call from call log works
Useless "Self Shot" button on camera app doesn't mess up settings and require reflashing

Those are just the ones that immediately come to mind.

Where only one (the home button) applies to any ROM I've ever made.

 

[remixulus]

I am running Cognition froyo, and I'm not planning on looking back to stock roms ever again.

 

[sremick]

"Newcomers are left thinking that flashing ROMs is trivial, what everyone does, and utterly without risk."

It is. Odin can save almost anything.

Odin can work wonders, certainly. But there are issues:

• The "One-click" return to "stock" isn't a perfect "stock", as we've learned
• There's the 3-button killing issue with the version suggested to everyone
• Odin doesn't save everyone. Even experienced users have permanently bricked.

Put it into these terms: just because paramedics are extremely talented, doesn't mean everybody can be saved and that skydiving is safer than not skydiving.

I don't see how you can say that when your list up there:

Where only one (the home button) applies to any ROM I've ever made.

I can say it because I liked your goals and quality, compared to others which took more-radical routes and made changes I wouldn't want on my phone. I lurk in a bunch of the ROM threads and try to keep up with their progress and evolution, as well as what differentiates one from another (difficult since some move so fast). Just because your ROM wasn't/isn't issue-free doesn't mean I didn't like what you were doing and your design philosophy.

It was a compliment... geez.

Now, look at it from this angle: I've seen people saying in multiple places that those first three issues apply to all i9000-based ROMs. Assonance is i9000-based. So I post in your thread and ask about what ones apply to Assonance. You said, "It's been weeks since I used Assonance, so I can't really remember." This is what makes it frustrating for the newcomer, looking in trying to get answers. Conflicting info. If Assonance truly had no single known issue except for the home button haptic feedback then that's wonderful! But I was hoping to hear that other than to be told you didn't remember, then shortly later scolded here because you did remember. It was then that I was looking for that info. That's why I was asking.

I'm not your enemy, and I'm sorry you've taken this so personally. Truce?

A lot of times in various ROM threads I'd see stuff like:

"What doesn't work?"
"Everything works great! Just flash it!"
"Ok flashed it but X doesn't work. "
"Oh yeah that's a known issue."
"Hey I see that Y and Z are issues on ROM _____, do they work here?"
"No, noob... those don't work on any _____-based ROM. Learn to !@#!@ read..."

And so on.

I am trying to get informed, and trying to compile accurate information... but the hostility and holding-back of info, as well as mis-information, makes life very difficult. This not only includes what does and doesn't work in various ROMs, but also just being up-front and honest with new users about the risks of flashing ROMs. If they are still willing to go that route once they know, more power to them... just as to you and your work trying to improve the ROMs you work on. But the pat reply to every soccer mom on here who's like, "Hey I just got a Captivate, what should I do first?" should not be "dood u gotta root that thang then flash cog cuz it rox ballz, lol! THEN UR PHONE WILL RUUULLLLLL!!!!1111" which tends to be the norm.

Cheers...

 

[MikeyMike01]

blah blah blah

Asking "What's wrong?" and "Does this, this, and this happen?" are two very different questions.

And they get very different answers.

As you've seen.

 

[sremick]

Asking "What's wrong?" and "Does this, this, and this happen?" are two very different questions.

And they get very different answers.

As you've seen.

Well, if there had been a unique issue on Assonance (as there sometimes are on other ROMs... issues that aren't seen on any other), how am I going to know about it to ask specifically if it's happening?

I guess I don't understand why an open-ended "What doesn't work properly when using this ROM?" is a question that upset you so much.