Now that we know the Apple A5 is a beast, what Android phone will be able to compete with iPHONE5?

[EarlyMon]

You noted that all 2-cores will be at 1 GHz. The upcoming Snapdragon 8x60 phones rumored to be coming are expected to run at 1.2 GHz. So - that part of your statement was incorrect.

How would a 20% increase in clock speed manifest itself?

I'm with you - I'd rather see lower speeds and better battery life once past the point of notice-ability in response.

Until they're out, this is speculation on our parts, and not real - we don't know how actual uses will play out yet.

 

[Shocky]

How would a 20% increase in clock speed manifest itself?
.

Only in synthetic benchmarks would you be able to tell the difference, if you gave somebody two identical phones, one with each CPU and told them say which is which, they wouldn't be able too.

I can overclock my Galaxy S 20-30%, makes for some nice benchmark results but do I really notice any difference in apps/games? None at all.

 

[EarlyMon]

Only in synthetic benchmarks would you be able to tell the difference, if you gave somebody two identical phones, one with each CPU and told them say which is which, they wouldn't be able too.

I can overclock my Galaxy S 20-30%, makes for some nice benchmark results but do I really notice any difference in apps/games? None at all.

As I said in my earlier post, above.

 

[Shocky]

As I said in my earlier post, above.

I don’t accept I’m wrong about the clockspeed either (at least not yet), I wasn’t aware it was confirmed the new snapdragon CPU will be clocked at 1.2GHz, your saying I’m incorrect based on a rumour.

Also that would make the recent Pyramid benchmark results even more disappointing

 

[EarlyMon]

I'm not sure how agreeing with you is causing this argument, nor do I see a need to play by different rules than you.

Your idea that everything will be running at 1 GHz is equally a rumor, one I've not seen before - but I can't refute it based on published rumors?

LoL

You might want to read my original position on this whole thread.

 

[Shocky]

I'm not sure how agreeing with you is causing this argument, nor do I see a need to play by different rules than you.

Your idea that everything will be running at 1 GHz is equally a rumor, one I've not seen before - but I can't refute it based on published rumors?

LoL

You might want to read my original position on this whole thread.

What arguement?

I never said everything will be running at 1GHz, only upcoming phones, as in phones being release soon where specs have been confirmed. Like the Optimus X2/3D, Galaxy S2 etc.

There were even rumours saying the Cortex A9 in the Galaxy S2 was clocked at 1.2GHz which was proved incorrect.

I hope your right about benchmarks not telling the whole story with regards to Mali 400, it would suck if those benchmarks are accurate.

 

[Medion]

I quite clearly said dual core, when comparing the A5 to A9 100MHz is not going to make much difference in the real world and I stand by that.

You can't honestly believe that or any other minor change will make any noticable difference to the end user?

Lots of good information, but I don't agree with you.

When comparing the A5 to an A9? An A5 is an A9! I agree with you that differences as small as 20% aren't noticeable to the end user outside of benchmarks, but that is because there aren't any CPU-intensive apps out yet for these phones. The 1ghz phones are the exceptions, not the norm. Even the iPhone 4 isn't 1ghz (it's been proven to be underclocked 850mhz, although early speculation was 80mhz).

So, I agree with you that the end user experience won't be different for the most part, but your exact wordage was "raw processing." Yes, there's a significant difference in that area in regards to these CPUs. If you don't believe me, well, let's have a race at "about" 1000 RPMs in our cars, but I'm in 3rd gear and you're in first. After all, you probably won't notice the difference

I don

 

[Shocky]

When comparing the A5 to an A9? An A5 is an A9! I agree with you that differences as small as 20% aren't noticeable to the end user outside of benchmarks, but that is because there aren't any CPU-intensive apps out yet for these phones. The 1ghz phones are the exceptions, not the norm. Even the iPhone 4 isn't 1ghz (it's been proven to be underclocked 850mhz, although early speculation was 80mhz).

So, I agree with you that the end user experience won't be different for the most part, but your exact wordage was "raw processing." Yes, there's a significant difference in that area in regards to these CPUs. If you don't believe me, well, let's have a race at "about" 1000 RPMs in our cars, but I'm in 3rd gear and you're in first. After all, you probably won't notice the difference

I know the A5 is basically an A9 which is why I made that comment, as for the a race, isnt that basically what synthetic benchmarks are for? a 20% clock difference will show in these but we both know the user won't be able to tell the difference so it doesnt really matter.

Would you rather have a A9/A5 @ 850MHz with SGX543MP2 or A9 @ 1GHz with Tegra 2.

I know what I would take.

The original spec for the MSM 8x60 was 1.2ghz, but Qualcomm has raised it to 1.5ghz (up to, of course, so it's up to the OEM to clock it how they see fit).

Mobile Processors | Snapdragon | Qualcomm

The early pyramid benchmarks look really poor so if it is clocked at 1.2GHz or 1.5GHz which I doubt it's allot slower clock for clock than the A9, but until we have more results and confirmed specs it''s hard to say for sure.

 

[fredsmith]

The crux of the issue is that the A5 is a faster processor. I'm guessing that the Android world will counter with one of 3 items:
Possibility 1: Free avocado dip with every new phone.
Possibility 2: Offer to tie your shoes for you
Possibility 3: Purchase a faster CPU from the CPU makers to place in their phones.

If they go with 1 or 3, I'll probably stick with Android. I love avocado dip.

 

[PSkeptic]

Be careful . . . what you say is not really true. I do not own an iPhone, but I do own other iThings and my devices are open. I have full file system access, I can use hundreds of themes, change icons, install applications through other sources, etc.

Odd that so many people complain about Apple and their closed nature seem to forget that their Android phone/OS is ALSO closed. You cannot, for example, delete some of the apps that ship with your phone. Your carrier/manufacturer has decided that you must keep some appl you will likely not want.

Good for the Goose comes to mind.

So when you say never, it is not at all accurate.

Android has a growing 'Cult Following" as well. I decided that there is nothing wrong with that at all. I buy what I need and I am ok with how many Android and Apple haters there are. Most are clueless and therefore, ignorable.

Bob

You are misunderstanding what "open" means. Open, means you can take the OS, and do what you desire with it. Even if you desire to buy a modded version from an OEM, which is locked down.

The Nexus line comes with nothing but pure Android. Everything else is a derivative work.

Can another OEM walk up, take iOS (Or Mac OS for that matter), modify it, and then load it onto whatever hardware they like? If not, then it isn't open.

 

[CaliforniaMan]

I know the A5 is basically an A9 which is why I made that comment, as for the a race, isnt that basically what synthetic benchmarks are for? a 20% clock difference will show in these but we both know the user won't be able to tell the difference so it doesnt really matter.

Would you rather have a A9/A5 @ 850MHz with SGX543MP2 or A9 @ 1GHz with Tegra 2.

I know what I would take.



The early pyramid benchmarks look really poor so if it is clocked at 1.2GHz or 1.5GHz which I doubt it's allot slower clock for clock than the A9, but until we have more results and confirmed specs it''s hard to say for sure.

Honestly the A9/A5 @ 850MHz with SGX543MP2 is much faster

 

[Bob Maxey]

You are misunderstanding what "open" means. Open, means you can take the OS, and do what you desire with it. Even if you desire to buy a modded version from an OEM, which is locked down.

The Nexus line comes with nothing but pure Android. Everything else is a derivative work.

Can another OEM walk up, take iOS (Or Mac OS for that matter), modify it, and then load it onto whatever hardware they like? If not, then it isn't open.

I absolutely know what open means in this context. My comments were (I think) directed at those that think 'Open' means anything goes in the marketplace; that the Android Market is closed to some software like hard core porn, keygens for hacking/unlocking software, or related software.

Bob

 

[Medion]

Would you rather have a A9/A5 @ 850MHz with SGX543MP2 or A9 @ 1GHz with Tegra 2.

I know what I would take.

Honestly the A9/A5 @ 850MHz with SGX543MP2 is much faster

Unconfirmed. They showed off some amazing benchmarks showing off the differences between a game written for the iPad 2, and its Android port on a Xoom. Here's why those benchmarks don't guarantee that the PowerVR is significantly faster.

1. The Xoom is running a higher resolution and at (supposedly) 32-bit color, while the Ipad 2 is at a lower resolution and 24-bit color. That right there can mean an up to 50% different in fill-rate, and thus, frame rate and benchmarks results. Ouch!
2. The Android port is a general port while the Ipad version was made specifically for the Ipad 2. It's like comparing console development to PC development, where it's easier to get more out of the console due to a lock in hardware design.

Now, I know that looks like damage control on my part. I'm not trying to say that Tegra 2 is faster, or even comparable. What I'm saying is that, until we see the Exynos on a Galaxy S II, we won't know for sure exactly what the difference is between the two chips. From what we've seen so far, I'm betting on the PowerVR being faster, just not as big of a difference as what we saw in those benchmarks.

Also, A5 has support for NEON, Tegra 2 doesn't. That's another speed boost for the A5 CPU in certain applications. So, I'm thinking that I (and many others) fell for something that was nothing more than just hype. It's a good chipset though (Tegra 2).

 

[busted bones]

This is incorrect. That's like saying first gear and second gear give the same speed at 1000 RPMs. Clock speed is just ONE aspect of a CPU's performance. Right now, there are three high-end MPCore's we're dealing with;

Cortex-A8 (iPhone 3G S, 4, iPad, phones using the Hummingbird and TI OMAP SOCs)
Scorpion - (anything using a Snapdragon)
Cortex A9 - (iPad 2, likely iPhone 5, OMAP 4, Samsung's upcoming Exynos SOC, Tegra 2)

Clock for clock, Cortex A9 is roughly 20% faster than A8. Scorpion is roughly 5% faster than A8. A9 and Scorpion have support for 128-bit SIMD instructions while A8 is limited to 64-bit (main reason Snapdragon kills OMAP/Hummingbird in Linpack). All 3 MPCores can support NEON instructions sets. Anything using Scorpion or A8 DOES support NEON. Tegra removed NEON from Tegra 2's A9 to save on manufacturing costs, but Tegra 3 will have it. This kills performance in some areas. Exynos and OMAP 4 are expected to support NEON.

Then there's the multi-core aspect. Scorpion and A9 have support for up to quad-core, while A8 is limited to single core. Don't tell me that you honestly expect a 1ghz single-core to be the same speed as a 1ghz dual-core just because they are both 1ghz.

In terms of overall speed, it's A9 > Scorpion > A8. However, due to the removal of NEON, there will be some differences within the A9 segment. It should be;

A5/OMAP4/Exynos > Tegra (all indications are that A5 = Exynos, just as A4 = Hummingbird). And no one, NO ONE, in the industry expected the new PowerVR to kill Tegra 2. They were expected to be on par. We'll have a better idea when Exynos comes out and we can compare the two GPUs on the same OS.

I find all this very informative but have to ask the question "why does the A5 in the apple perform at such a monstrously higher level than the Tegra2 when it comes to graphics?"

 

[busted bones]

This is really interesting. IF I remember right when the original droid came out on Verizon every one was drooling over the screen. The Iphone4 was the answer with a slightly higher resolution but that was it. No more Androids compared in resolution. Of course then you started seeing 4"+ screens and apples only response was the ipad. I remember Jobs making fun of little screens yet there is no iphone with a 4" screen. And now the ipad2 doesn't even have the same resolution as the xoom?

I'm not interested in tablets at all but the war here is confusing.

You have the part in bold backwards, he said no one would want a phone with a screen larger than 4 inches however there is rumors right now the iPhoneX(not sure what designation it will have as it did not go 1,2,3,4 but iPhone, 3G, 3GS, 4) will have a screen 4 inches or larger. Another interesting point about larger screens is they went from 0 on the market to having 25% share of the market in little over a year. Pretty amazing.

 

[Angras]

Android devices running version 2.2 or better (the majority) also offer full Flash browsing without additional-cost add-ons.

This is a big deal to me..you have a high end device (such as an iphone) that can't browse the web the way it was meant to be seen- If your happy with that then Kudos to you.

Not to mention that the iphone5 may not have 4g?? iPhone 5 rumors: what to expect - Technology & science - Wireless - msnbc.com

So it may have a beast of a cpu but the more powerful the cpu the more power it needs. I will be curious to see what size the battery will be....

 

[Kron]

Now that we know the Apple A5 is a beast, what Android phone will be able to compete with iPHONE5?

I was not expecting this iPAD 2 to out power the Xoom. The Xoom has more ram and a Tegra 2 but yet it still took a beating when compared to the ipad 2! I was expecting the A5 chip to be kinda soft and deliver only a margin increase over the original ipad. Apple Delivered! The iphone 5 will be awesome and we have no Android devices that can counter this now that it is proven that Apple's A5 processor can easily defeat a Tegra 2.
We also have no Android devices coming in the near future that can outperform the Apple A5 chip , now that it is proven that Apple's A5 processor can easily defeat a Tegra 2

I don't know how to break this to you, but Samsung's Exynos completely Obliterates A5. First off it's underclocked vs Exynos clocked at 1.2ghz. On top of that it has 1gig of Samsung's Low Power DDR2 ram vs 512MB in A5. Now for the best part..... A5 has a dual core CPU right but they do not fully support the Neon Multimedia Accelerator in iOS. On top of that, the Mali-400mp4 is a Quad Core vs the Dual Core SGX-543mp2 in A5. No contest..... with the fill rate of 4.4Gpixels/sec it more than doubles the fill rate of A5.

Not to mention this is an All ARM SoC design including highest bandwidth and fastest logic design coupled with the ARM Mali-400mp4 with...... not pay attention here, 1gig of Samsung new 30nm Low Power DDR2. NOT the old 40nm LPDDR2 they've sold Apple.

Now listen up..... cuz it gets even better for Samsung (Largest Electronics Corporation by income double Apple's 2010 gross dollar volume! .....now I don't care if Apple make 100% profit, because that's just you iDiots being stupid enough to pay them. If you want to talk power and money, Apple can't hold a candle to Samsung Group. Which the majority of it's holdings are privately held and NO ONE knows their total value because of that!

Here's the scoop..... Galaxy SII is sporting the 1.2ghz 45nm Exynos. Right now the most powerful SoC out. This June when Galaxy Tab launches though, Samsung has changed the design to beat Apple. Just the luck of going second... haha.... In order to get thinner and lighter than iPad 2 Samsung decided to not use Nvidia Tegra T20 (3rd gen) clocked at 1.2ghz they've moved Exynos to their brand new 32nm High K Metal Gate (HKMG) Low Power process. This will be the first ARM A9 Cortex at this process. What does it mean? That Galaxy Tab 10.1 will only be 8.4mm thin SAVE 70% battery life over the 45nm Exynos and Apple's A5. Let's say Exynos 45nm chip lasts for 10hours of video, Exynos at 32nm with it's 1gig of 30nm memory could run between 17 to 20 hours of video!

These are the rewards of being your own supplier and having the 2nd largest R&D Departments in the world next to..... yes, IBM! Just to give you some preliminary sales numbers on Galaxy SII; went on sale in Europe with 3 million Pre-Orders. They also sold 4 Million Galaxy SII's in S. Korea in just it's first week. They said they hoped to sell 10 Million Galaxy SII's by June and it looks like they'll beat that goal before even going on sale in America. Galaxy SII will be the widest distributed phone on the planet with projected sales of 60 Million by year's end. Selling in 120 countries and 140 carriers Globally! ........so Apple can't help to touch this phone's sales with iPhone 5 when it won't be on sale but 3 months at most!!!

 

[Shocky]

"the Mali-400mp4 is a Quad Core vs the Dual Core SGX-543mp2 in A5. No contest"


I agree with much of what you've said but not all becuase it doesn’t obliterate the A5, just because Mali 400MP is quad core based does not automatically make it faster than SGX543MP2.

Results in GLBenchmark 2.03 clearly show SGX543MP2 is faster than Mali 400MP even at a higher resolution, with lower clocked CPU and without DDR2, which is pretty definitive imo.

So for games A5 will be king, of course the iPhone 5 will probably use a higher resolution so the overall performance will be simalar.

One thing I do like about Mali 400MP, it can do FSAA without a big performance hit, only loses 2 fps in GLBenchmark 2.03, however games will probally never use it.

 

[Medion]

On top of that, the Mali-400mp4 is a Quad Core vs the Dual Core SGX-543mp2 in A5. No contest.....

"the Mali-400mp4 is a Quad Core vs the Dual Core SGX-543mp2 in A5. No contest"


I agree with much of what you've said but not all becuase it doesn

 

[Bob Maxey]

Now listen up..... cuz it gets even better for Samsung (Largest Electronics Corporation by income double Apple's 2010 gross dollar volume! .....now I don't care if Apple make 100% profit, because that's just you iDiots being stupid enough to pay them. If you want to talk power and money, Apple can't hold a candle to Samsung Group. Which the majority of it's holdings are privately held and NO ONE knows their total value because of that!

Apple earned more than 30 billion from less than 30 products. That, sport, is impressive as hell and Samsung could only wish they did as well.

If you want to win forum friends, stop calling us idiots. I do not think I am an idiot. Third, you are not very astute and I have a deadline to meet today, so no soup for you.

 

[jerofld]

iPhone 5 will outsell anything on the market relative to it's own release. Other companies/carriers need to plan releases around suspected iPhone release dates. I don't care if God himself handed down a smartphone to the masses at the same time the iPhone released, it won't sell as well as the iPhone.

 

[Bob Maxey]

iPhone 5 will outsell anything on the market relative to it's own release. Other companies/carriers need to plan releases around suspected iPhone release dates. I don't care if God himself handed down a smartphone to the masses at the same time the iPhone released, it won't sell as well as the iPhone.

But Android is growing and perhaps your estimates are a tad premature. The public is fickle and the consumer base is mostly non-fanboys. Too soon to tell and I have stopped predicting the future. Android scares Apple, I should think. But if I were in the Android business, Apple would scare the hell outta me. Apple has a way of amazing us.

That said, Apple does a great job selling the things and who knows what the next iPhone will bring to the world.

About all I know is this: what an amazing time we live in. We all reap the benefits of this vast sea of devices.

Now, if Harley-Davidson would only bring back the cast iron 45 CI WL, I would try to live a bit longer.

Bob

 

[Shocky]

Sorry kid, Exynos is already slower than the old galaxy gpu and tegra 2.

Complete fail.

60 million LOL good luck

Nothing will outsell Iphone Nothing and I hate Apple/Iphone

No, your information is out of date, sorry kid but the results your probably looking at are on a pre-release model tested by Anandtech, they don't represent performance of the phone at all..

Retail models benchmark allot higher than Tegra 2.

 

[jroc]

Yea the Exynos is looking real nice with recent benchmarks. Yall can have the FPS, triangles, polys, etc., give me the one that helps with battery life the best. If they are all similar, give me the phone that fits my needs, wants the best overall, which in the end might not have the best cpu or gpu according to some ppl.

My question is when will Android phones, tablets use the SGX 543? I was hoping the OMAP 4 would move up past the 540 since Samsung already had it in use last year. Looks like it will still use it. Maybe it will get clocked a lil higher like the gpu in the Droid X and 2.