huskerkate
Android Enthusiast
actually, i'm too old. it came out 2 years after i finished law school...
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It's Being Announced October 18!
- Thread starter HanSolo
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- motorola droid razr
actually, i'm too old. it came out 2 years after i finished law school...
dr01d3tte
Android Enthusiast
huskerkate
Android Enthusiast
nah, i'm not smart enuf for that. 
i do civil defense work (defending people who've been sued)...
i do civil defense work (defending people who've been sued)...
H
HanSolo
Guest
Sorry, never got into it. I tried watching the movie but jumped off after about 5 minutes. Incomprehensible and boring. (Although, so is Space Odyssey: 2001 and I love that, so go figure.)
nah, i'm not smart enuf for that.
Ah, interesting. I work for the other side! We're adversaries! (But I do criminal.)
huskerkate
Android Enthusiast
Ah, interesting. I work for the other side! We're adversaries! (But I do criminal.)
that explains a lot... LOL
Millinium just posted this link in the Nexus thread - looks nice!! and, i note that it was reported to be clocked at 1.5 ghz. to me, that signals an OMAP 4460, cuz i don't think the 4430 could get up to 1.5, even if "turbo charged" (or am i wrong in that)...??
Motorola Spyder and Xoom 2 turn up in more leaked shots -- Engadget
Sandroidfan
Android Expert
that explains a lot... LOL
Millinium just posted this link in the Nexus thread - looks nice!! and, i note that it was reported to be clocked at 1.5 ghz. to me, that signals an OMAP 4460, cuz i don't think the 4430 could get up to 1.5, even if "turbo charged" (or am i wrong in that)...??
It should be possible to overclock any 1Ghz processor to 1.5Ghz. So that doesn't necessarily mean 4460. If it's 4460, that's nice. But it really needs HD screen to be contender for Prime, Vigor, Optimus LTE.
huskerkate
Android Enthusiast
agreed. the VZW focus group docs leaked over at AC a couple months back look more and more like they are speaking of the RAZR (especially the mention of kevlar, and the diamond cut spun chrome). in those docs, the screen is described as a qHD Super AMOLED Advanced screen. i don't think that's true HD, but people who have seen it (Panda, Susurro over at HoFo) have all said that it's a pretty nice screen, and a definite improvement over the Bionic. i'm betting it's going to be comparable (but probably a slight step below) the Nexus.
huskerkate
Android Enthusiast
following along these lines, pleas being made to Moto to follow thru on its promise to start unlocking BL's in 2011. not getting my hopes up, but man would it be sweet if this came true! Dear Motorola: “Late 2011″ Is Approaching Fast, We Should Make the DROID RAZR Your First Unlocked Phone - Droid Life: A Droid Community Blog
Sandroidfan
Android Expert
So what's the most up to date info on Razr spec? I'm curious on its battery size, screen, processor.
huskerkate
Android Enthusiast
this is as best as we can tell:
OMAP 4460
1800 mAh batt
1.2 ghz dual core (maybe 1.5)
1 gb RAM
8 mp camera
qHD Super AMOLED Advanced screen (something new - not much known about it)
4.3" screen
LTE
127 grams and 1/4" thick
kevlar back
diamond cut spun chrome
Docs from a Verizon focus group [unconfirmed] - Android Forums
http://thisismynext.com/2011/09/24/...super-amoled-display-lte-dual-core-processor/
http://www.droid-life.com/2011/10/11/additional-leaked-shots-of-the-droid-razr-and-xoom2-emerge/
OMAP 4460
1800 mAh batt
1.2 ghz dual core (maybe 1.5)
1 gb RAM
8 mp camera
qHD Super AMOLED Advanced screen (something new - not much known about it)
4.3" screen
LTE
127 grams and 1/4" thick
kevlar back
diamond cut spun chrome
Docs from a Verizon focus group [unconfirmed] - Android Forums
http://thisismynext.com/2011/09/24/...super-amoled-display-lte-dual-core-processor/
http://www.droid-life.com/2011/10/11/additional-leaked-shots-of-the-droid-razr-and-xoom2-emerge/
Sandroidfan
Android Expert
I don't see anyone saying OMAP 4460 but it's possible.
Honestly can you believe it has 1/4"=6.35mm thickness? I don't see how that's possible with 1800mAh battery and LTE radio.
huskerkate
Android Enthusiast
for the thickness, that's what the VZW focus group docs say. and, i think it's pretty clear by now that those docs are referring to the Spyder. also, the initial indications are that it has a nonremoveable battery, and the initial pics leaked a few weeks ago show a very long, thin battery. in various discussions, people have posited that this is what allows it to be such a thin device (even with LTE).
as far as the 4460 vs. 4430, no one is sure. but, recent links indicated that a test device was clocked at 1.5 ghz. it probably won't release at that speed, and will probably be at 1.2. but the point is that it's unlikely that a 4430 would have been clocked at 1.5 to begin with. most seem to agree that a 4430 would only be able to be "turbo charged" up to 1.2. and, Moto mostly underclocks its devices, not overclock. so, if it was at 1.5 (and is later turned down to 1.2) that signals to me that it's a 4460, and will likely be underclocked to 1.2. this is just my take, but i think it logically follows. i could, of course, be wrong as usual...
you annoy me the most on these boards. You mouth off like an idiot on numerous posts, yet you know nothing other than recycling the stuff everyone else says.
Not everyone on these boards are as limited in what they know as you are. I've seen this device first hand (well, much more than that). Believe it, chump.
magdelaine
Android Enthusiast
Dear YodaDroid, and word on unlocking the RAZR bootloader? Seems it would make a big difference to many in choosing among the amazing phones due out this season.
Sandroidfan
Android Expert
Since when raising valid concerns, question on unconfirmed spec, feature is considered annoying? So we are here to just praise the unreleased phone and believe whatever rumored spec, feature floating around?I'm not trying to bash Razr here. Just like to learn about its real spec, features. If you know more about it or it's in your hand, great, then answer the questions and put some concerns to rest. I will be Moto fanboy right away, once I learn that they unlock BL, puts very competitive screen, camera. But making personal attacks is probably the last thing you want to do here, and I believe it's against this forum policy.
huskerkate
Android Enthusiast
here's what kbman said over at HoFo regarding the unlocked BL for the RAZR. i'm not sure i completely understand it, but maybe someone more knowledgeable than me (which is about everyone) can make more sense out of it. what i interpret it to mean is that the decision to unlock the BL for an OMAP device has to be made at the time of manufacture, and it cannot be unlocked after release. thus, either the BL comes unlocked, or it doesn't - there can't be an after-the-fact "tool" released to make it unlockable. anyone???
The question of the "unlocked" bootloader is as complicated as it is compelling.
The way the security works on the OMAP chips, it is actually the mbmloader that stores and checks the encrypted signature with the fuse array on the OMAP chip. The new firmware files and OTA update.zip files that have leaked for the dual core devices contain a single mbm.bin file (bootloader) and both an HS (Hardware Secure) mbmloader.bin as well as an NS (Non Secured) mbmloader.bin.
The updater script has a check for the ro.secure status of the target device and loads the appropriate file after first flashing a separate bootloader that allows mbmloader flashing. This is a complicated and delicate arrangement and is very different from the Nvidia Tegra II device' security and fuse array. Those are the only devices that have seen the so called Factory OEM unlock, either officially in the case of the Xoom or unofficially in the case of the Atrix and Photon.
While it is theoretically possible to release a signed mbmloader that then performs no further signature checks up the boot chain than the mbm.bin, allowing for custom kernels and ROMs ala the OG droid, it is not possible, as far as my understanding, to provide a Factory OEM unlock bootloader on OMAP hardware retroactively, like the Tegra II chipset. Once they are secured, they must have a signed mbmloader. The OG Droid was an SE device and you can see that if you ever flash it or connect it to RSD Lite in bootloader mode, so this would still give everyone what they wanted.
Sorry for the long explanation...but that is really the stripped down short version!
I would love to be proven wrong about this and find the magic bootloader on a secret server somewhere, but we haven't seen anything like that in the past for OMAP chipsets and I am very skeptical whenever the subject comes up.
They could certainly decide in advance not to encrypt the bootloader and release them unlocked, just not after the fact.
The question of the "unlocked" bootloader is as complicated as it is compelling.
The way the security works on the OMAP chips, it is actually the mbmloader that stores and checks the encrypted signature with the fuse array on the OMAP chip. The new firmware files and OTA update.zip files that have leaked for the dual core devices contain a single mbm.bin file (bootloader) and both an HS (Hardware Secure) mbmloader.bin as well as an NS (Non Secured) mbmloader.bin.
The updater script has a check for the ro.secure status of the target device and loads the appropriate file after first flashing a separate bootloader that allows mbmloader flashing. This is a complicated and delicate arrangement and is very different from the Nvidia Tegra II device' security and fuse array. Those are the only devices that have seen the so called Factory OEM unlock, either officially in the case of the Xoom or unofficially in the case of the Atrix and Photon.
While it is theoretically possible to release a signed mbmloader that then performs no further signature checks up the boot chain than the mbm.bin, allowing for custom kernels and ROMs ala the OG droid, it is not possible, as far as my understanding, to provide a Factory OEM unlock bootloader on OMAP hardware retroactively, like the Tegra II chipset. Once they are secured, they must have a signed mbmloader. The OG Droid was an SE device and you can see that if you ever flash it or connect it to RSD Lite in bootloader mode, so this would still give everyone what they wanted.
Sorry for the long explanation...but that is really the stripped down short version!
I would love to be proven wrong about this and find the magic bootloader on a secret server somewhere, but we haven't seen anything like that in the past for OMAP chipsets and I am very skeptical whenever the subject comes up.
They could certainly decide in advance not to encrypt the bootloader and release them unlocked, just not after the fact.
magdelaine
Android Enthusiast
Ok, Husker...that's really helpful.
I *think* I start to understand what the problem is, and that it is chip related. My question would be, is it possible that the chip might come with two versions of an encrypted mbm file? One for OEM updates and one that could be released to developers for use in their ROMs?
I *think* I start to understand what the problem is, and that it is chip related. My question would be, is it possible that the chip might come with two versions of an encrypted mbm file? One for OEM updates and one that could be released to developers for use in their ROMs?
Like this. I mean, if this kind of theoretical thing was done by the manufacturer, could you then call the bootloader "unlockable"?
There are many reasons that the bootloaders are not unlocked.
1) Because of what you can do w/ the device (things that won't make a carrier / mfg happy)
2) Because you can really mess up your device (are you going to admit you screwed it up when you call to say your phone broke?)
3) Because of technical difficulties
4) Because most people really don't even care about an unlocked bootloader, so it doesn't really drive a business need. (for everybody that asks for an unlocked bootloader, how many do you think really couldn't care less. It's simply not worth the hassle for most. Same goes for root).
magdelaine
Android Enthusiast
Everything you said here is really obvious. The carriers/makers and most users are either happy or oblivious with locked bootloaders. However there is vocal community of android users and enthusiasts who do care very much. This community is the source of some real ingenuity and innovation (re: cyanogen being hired by Samsung). This community is part of what makes Android "open". If a manufacturer wants to continue to ignore and stir up bad blood with that community, then so be it. As for me, though, if I wanted a walled garden I would get an iPhone.
And yeah, when I rooted my phone the first time I figured if I messed up my phone I was SOL. It was worth the risk. So no, I wouldn't have expected Moto to "fix" it. Duh.
huskerkate
Android Enthusiast
i do understand these issues, and i agree that most people wouldn't know an unlocked BL from a hole in the ground, so they could care less. so, if they could care less, my thought would be to have an unlocked BL - the masses won't know the difference, and the small percentage of enthusiasts would also be satisfied. everybody wins.
i would kinda disagree with you on the "screwing up your device" concern. i've been around the forums for quite a while, and i can think of only 1 instance, out of thousands and thousands, where someone truly bricked their device. so, the vast majority of people don't care about rooting their phones, and only an infinitesimal percentage of people who root actually damage their devices. to me, that says that OEM's could leave the BL unlocked, still appeal to the masses, and satisfy the enthusiasts.
but, again, i do understand the argument you make. and, that is why i was kind of hoping/positing the idea of an "unlockable" BL, so that people could root and rom if they want, but there would be a clear way for OEM's and carriers to know that they voided their warranty. but, what i'm hearing from other sources (and maybe you can confirm) is that OMAP chips would not allow for unlocking after-the-fact??
Who knows what final decisions are made at the very end. You never know. We could get surprised.
huskerkate
Android Enthusiast
red66charger
Android Expert
I can't believe how little interest there seems to be for this device.