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Help Signal goes from solid 4G to no data (gray triangle)

Trooper said:
I've had this happen to me as well. For awhile, it was not happening at all. Then I noticed it more frequently.

Ive also noticed that certain rom's and kernels "seem" to make it better or worse, depending on what I have installed on a particular day.

I still think its a combo of a few things.

1. VZW 4G network in general.
2. Samsung's weak radios.
3. Software glitch.
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Agreed, except I think for 2. it should be "Average/Normal radio performance, not up to the amazingness of the Rezound's radio". Seriously, the Rezound has an awesome radio, we know that. We get it.

But it's like saying "well, a Core i5 2500k is weak performance wise because the Core i7 3960x is much faster".

Let's ask the question this way: What 3G/LTE phone on Verizon has a radio anywhere close to how good the Rezound's is?
 
robwheeler said:
Just got off the phone with Verizon customer support, they submitted a ticket to the networking team who are supposed to get back to me within three days. We'll see if this helps.
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Ohhh, I know how this game goes!!!!

they will ask about areas with troubles to isolate areas,
ask for addresses and claim that you are in a bit of a lower signal area.
If you mention the word "indoors" I think it triggers an automatic response about weaker inside signals.
...
and if you are lucky, they will just send you a certified replacement or request that you full reset the phone.

Let's see if I'm psychic, or if you actually got into tier 3 or manager levels!
 
syntrix said:
Ohhh, I know how this game goes!!!!

they will ask about areas with troubles to isolate areas,
ask for addresses and claim that you are in a bit of a lower signal area.
If you mention the word "indoors" I think it triggers an automatic response about weaker inside signals.
...
and if you are lucky, they will just send you a certified replacement or request that you full reset the phone.

Let's see if I'm psychic, or if you actually got into tier 3 or manager levels!
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Yep, pretty spot on. I made sure not to mention inside and I also made sure they knew it was happening in a good signal area with solid 4G blue bars so it wasn't a signal strength problem. But excellent points, and with this particular problem it's important not to give them an out.
 
jkc120 said:
Yep, pretty spot on. I made sure not to mention inside and I also made sure they knew it was happening in a good signal area with solid 4G blue bars so it wasn't a signal strength problem. But excellent points, and with this particular problem it's important not to give them an out.
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Similar issues with a Charge, Bionic, Thunderbolt and a Razr.
 
jkc120 said:
When you get the "gray triangle of death" does it also affect voice? I thought at first it was due to moving from tower to tower or being in motion in general, but I've seen it do this when the phone is sitting there by itself unused in a decent signal area.
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just happened to me a minute ago, as a matter of fact. got the grey triangle of death and both data and voice were lost. got data back quickly, but had to reboot to get voice-i mean i could make calls but couldn't hear the person on the other end.

just a bug. not worried, doesn't happen that often. hopefully 4.0.3 is coming soon. a new update with new features is always exciting for us phone geeks lol
 
jkc120 said:
- I'll have a solid 4G signal - all 4 blue bars
- randomly I'll notice data stopped working (web page loading stalls, etc) but the 4G symbol and blue bars are still there
- about 10-15 seconds later, the bars disappear entirely and so does the 4G symbol. I'm left with just a gray triangle with no lines in it
- 30 seconds or so later, I get the gray bars, followed shortly by the 4G symbol, then blue bars
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This is exactly the problem I'm having with my GNex. No dropping to 3G, just complete loss of service (phone & data).

I've had my GNex for 3 weeks now and have tried the SIM removal and reinsert and turning on data roaming. Those tricks did nothing to fix the problem.

I guess I'll try to get a new SIM later this week. If that doesn't work, I'll take a crack at getting a new phone. I'm in the same boat as you and got mine from Costco, so I still have some time. (Main reason I went with Costco was for their return policy....)
 
Vzw reps love telling people a sim change will fix everything, when in reality it VERY rarely fixes anything.

The purpose it serves is getting you out of the store quickly so they can focus on customers that are buying stuff.
 
It's a software issue plain and simple. The handoff between 3G and 4g/LTE is just terrible. Hopefully the update comes quickly so we can reassess.
 
nycebo said:
It's a software issue plain and simple. The handoff between 3G and 4g/LTE is just terrible. Hopefully the update comes quickly so we can reassess.
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What makes you so certain? If it were software, I would expect it to be much more widespread. Are you suggesting people aren't noticing it or that there are some conditions in which a software bug (corner case) is tweaked in certain conditions?

I suppose it's possible it's software, but the coincidence with my drops and exchanging for a new one eliminating them seems to suggest a hardware issue.
 
jkc120 said:
What makes you so certain? If it were software, I would expect it to be much more widespread. Are you suggesting people aren't noticing it or that there are some conditions in which a software bug (corner case) is tweaked in certain conditions?

I suppose it's possible it's software, but the coincidence with my drops and exchanging for a new one eliminating them seems to suggest a hardware issue.
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Here's what leads me to think so: when I run 3G only, it's perfect. No problem with the antenna or reception at all. 4G isn't as widespread so a lot of users aren't even using it. As for those that are, I think that most of them are in here. I had a previous SGN that was moderately better than my current phone, but candidly, it was pretty terrible also considered to pure 3G. The issue is such that we get a FULL 4 bars on 4G, then it goes grey, then I lose connectivity, and then it often never comes back on to 3G or 4G until I enable and then disable airplane mode. At that point, connection is back to four bars and works perfectly. To me, it just appears to be related with the coding for signal degradation. Then again, I'm not saying it with 100% certainty, just a reasoned hunch is all.
 
nycebo said:
Here's what leads me to think so: when I run 3G only, it's perfect. No problem with the antenna or reception at all. 4G isn't as widespread so a lot of users aren't even using it. As for those that are, I think that most of them are in here. I had a previous SGN that was moderately better than my current phone, but candidly, it was pretty terrible also considered to pure 3G. The issue is such that we get a FULL 4 bars on 4G, then it goes grey, then I lose connectivity, and then it often never comes back on to 3G or 4G until I enable and then disable airplane mode. At that point, connection is back to four bars and works perfectly. To me, it just appears to be related with the coding for signal degradation. Then again, I'm not saying it with 100% certainty, just a reasoned hunch is all.
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But see none of that makes me believe it's software. I, too, was having the signal drop (both voice and data) with 4 solid bars in a strong (nowhere near the edge of 4G or an extended 4G) area. I don't think it's related to the signal strength at all. I think there's a bug in the radio (or maybe radio firmware - so pseudo-software) where if a certain condition happens on the tower or the connection to the tower, the modem freaks out and OS resets it. I don't remember if it was this thread of the one in the general nexus forum, but I posted the dmesg output that corresponded to the drop, and the kernel was clearly doing a hardware re-init of the device. I don't know why, in a strong area, a software problem would cause the kernel to actually hard reset the device.

To me it seemed more like:

- connection fine
- some boundary condition or problem the radio can't understand, so it returns a weird status or no status
- OS waits a bit for it to recover
- radio/modem does not recover, so the OS sends a reset signal to it and all radios/modems
- after a brief period, radio comes back up and connects

When this happened to me, it always came right back on its own with in 30-60 seconds. Never did I get stuck without voice and data, requiring a reboot or airplane mode toggle. Not sure if that is significant data in this problem or not.

Hopefully it IS a software problem, but unless Verizon/Google/Samsung are seeing a lot of reports of the issue (which is why starring the google bug report is important!), it's probably going to go unfixed.

On the other hand if it's partially or totally a hardware problem, again if V/G/S are unaware of it, they probably will not replace it under warranty or they will send it back untouched claiming it is fine. Speaking of, how exactly does Samsung test it? it's not like they have a large LTE network running on Verizon's spectrum to test, right? I'm sure they have a lab with it emulated or something, but if it's related to or triggered by something Verizon is doing, how can we ever hope to have Samsung reproduce it and acknowledge the problem? :confused: :(
 
Some really super points you made. It's puzzling as hell, that's for sure. And what else is for sure: it's just plain unacceptable that I'm not able to use 4G, for which I am paying. However, I will give VGS the benefit of the doubt and wait until that update is pushed to us. If it solves the issue: bonus. If not, I'll just have to raise bloody cain until they sent me a working replacement...however many that may take. Bah humbug.
 
It's been suggested many times that there are some units with bad radio hardware or antenna design of Nexus is just bad. I'm not sure if that's really the case. If it's in hardware, it must be either radio chip or antenna. These days chances of bad chips getting through production line is quite low due to tight QC process of semi-conductor chips. So that leaves antenna. I'm not RF engineer but Samsung didn't change/modify anything in Nexus hardware between builds to my knowledge. And I'm not sure how high the chance of badly built antenna is. So I looked into the antenna layout of Nexus in FCC doc and also compared it to the one in Razr which is perceived to have better radio. But I don't see much difference in position, area of antenna. Of course there are more to the antenna design than just positional layout, but still it's not so clear if antenna hardware is any issue.

Motorola Droid RAZR hits FCC with Verizon LTE, global GSM radio -- Engadget

Samsung Galaxy Nexus nabs FCC approval complete with Verizon LTE -- Engadget

So I'm also leaning to thoughts this occasional signal drop is mostly due to software. Mine lost it only coupe of times over a month. One when messing with battery saver app and another when I was deep inside the building at work. So I'm not even sure mine is bad one or not. But 3G/CDMA was never issue.

edit: the only thing I can think of 4G radio in Nexus is that maybe CMC221 LTE chip is not working smoothly with verizon LTE network yet. Then it must be fixable with software update. Tbolt, Charge went through similar things before.
 
Great dialogue. I'm concerned that we haven't heard from Google or Samsung about this. It makes me worry they don't even know what the problem is yet, let alone have a fix developed and distributed for testing.
 
nycebo said:
Some really super points you made. It's puzzling as hell, that's for sure. And what else is for sure: it's just plain unacceptable that I'm not able to use 4G, for which I am paying. However, I will give VGS the benefit of the doubt and wait until that update is pushed to us. If it solves the issue: bonus. If not, I'll just have to raise bloody cain until they sent me a working replacement...however many that may take. Bah humbug.
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Yes, if the updates don't fix it and I were you, I'd raise hell, too. And point them to this and other threads around the internet (and the google code bug) pointing it out and demand a replacement. They can always say "well, we were not aware of the issue, so it wasn't in 4.0.3 (or whatever version it ends up being), but even then without a lot of people reporting it to Verizon who knows if it would ever get fixed. :/
 
The more I think about, I'm leaning that 4G radio chip is the main issue in nexus, not the antenna. The Rezound is working excellent on reception mainly due to new MDM9600 chip from Qualcomm despite having similar antenna design on battery cover as Tbolt. LG Spectrum seems to work well with the same LTE chip as well.

So let's get fingers crossed for improved connectivity with update. I heard it's coming this month.
 
Just wanted to give an update... my first SGNEX had the same issue as original post, tried swapping SIM Card, factory reset, and all. Finally exchanged for a new phone (by luck it was a brand new, at the time VZW didn't have any returned/refurb phone to send as warranty replacement), there is more info on earlier post also regarding this new phone having an earlier board than the one I actually purchased (v9 vx. v10). The replacement phone has worked perfectly out of the box, it's been about 2-3 weeks and I haven't had a single data signal issue, it goes from 4G to 3G to 1X back to 4G and or 3G without any hesitation. I am on the road a lot and frequently go through areas where I go from 4G like NYC or Philly to 3G on turnpike to 1x in rural PA. The phone is great and I'm happy to have exchanged my Razr for the GNEX. I hope everyone here gets their GNEX issues resolved and get to enjoy this great device.
 
Here's my disappointing update: Got off the phone with Tier 2 support yet again. The guy said there have been numerous tickets with the same issue in my area (San Francisco and East Bay Area) and Verizon is well aware of the issue and is talking with the manufacturer about it. He waived the $30 data charge for last month but says that he cannot send me a new device without supervisor approval, but he says he will call back tomorrow with an update.

All these posts make it seem like it is at least partially a hardware issue so I'll push for a new phone when he calls back tomorrow.
 
robwheeler said:
Here's my disappointing update: Got off the phone with Tier 2 support yet again. The guy said there have been numerous tickets with the same issue in my area (San Francisco and East Bay Area) and Verizon is well aware of the issue and is talking with the manufacturer about it. He waived the $30 data charge for last month but says that he cannot send me a new device without supervisor approval, but he says he will call back tomorrow with an update.

All these posts make it seem like it is at least partially a hardware issue so I'll push for a new phone when he calls back tomorrow.
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Here's my take on the CS agenda.

1. He won't call back.
2. They are doing this to avert any replacements

You should have asked for the supervisor for immediate satisfaction. He would have put you on hold and then came back and said that his supervisor is not available.

I would have said, let's hold and wait, as I demand immediate satisfaction.... all very nicely of course.

Waiting for a fix is not acceptable, it's your choice. However, I will say it over and over again.... every 4G device on VZW has some sort of 4G to 3g/1x handover issue.

That said, my SGN has been so much better than the last 4 4G devices I've had on their network.
 
Also having this exact same problem. Actually made a thread without looking. My bad.

I have noticed that the problem will occur directly preceding an update check, but not sure if that has anything to do with it. This is my 2nd Nexus, and the first did not have this problem. Will register my phone later with manufacture date.
 
jkc120 said:
When you get the "gray triangle of death" does it also affect voice? I thought at first it was due to moving from tower to tower or being in motion in general, but I've seen it do this when the phone is sitting there by itself unused in a decent signal area.
Click to expand...

Mine will drop all data usage, and have had 3 calls dropped in the past week due to the issue.
 
my drops have become less prevalent. a sign that vzw is working on it's authentication servers. (also a sign it's not the phone)
 
Mine has been pretty bad since this past Thursday, where prior to that, it was solid.

I run different roms but for the most part have been on Redemption and/or CNA.

Not sure what to do at this point. Just to clarify, I lose voice and data. Its becoming quite frequent. Strange as I said, it only started this past Thursday for me.

Not sure whether to hang in there, or call Costco so see about a replacement. I wonder if that will even fix it?
 
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