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***Official HTC Incredible Thread***

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woodraskam said:
I was wrong. I'm sorry. I didn't originate that information, I was just trying to pass it on, but it seems to be false.

But it's not as illogical as you think. When processor manufacturers such as intel rate processors, they do stability tests and then usually rate them below where they are perfectly stable to create a safe zone buffer. say Intel does tests and finds a processor stable at 3.2 GHz, then they will rate it as a 2.8 GHz processor. This is a very common practice with processors, and they aren't considered "failed" processors, but are just lower rated. I thought this would be plausible for the Snapdragon chips, but like you I was unable to find any corroborating evidence.

Once again, I should have done more research instead of relying on that post being accurate, so that's my bad, but it's not like that was a totally rediculous explanation for why it was rated lower.
Click to expand...

Understood, and no worries. I think you are in essence saying the same thing I am. In your example of Intel, I think you are right on. The difference is that Intel has a large large number of processors that share the same architecture, but are meant to be rated at different speeds. In that case, a chip can possibly be sold as a lower-speed processor, although intended to be higher-rated, along with others intended to be that way as long as it meets the lower qualifications

I think the difference here is that Qualcomm intends to rate all the 8650 chips at 1GHz, and the suggestion that HTC and Verizon would choose to put these chips that failed to meet that spec, and were subsequently given a rating of 768MHz (an un-listed, "B-stock-type" product) in their new, "Incredible," flagship phone is highly unlikely, especially since HTC is not doing the same with its other high-end devices.
 
Mykpfsu said:
You saw what Mandrew posted way back on pg 106 and it was impressive (hell I still don't know exactly what it is) so you repeated it, it happens. Yes chip makers will rate their chips lower then they can max sustain. But that always makes a new model number. I just think its important to know what the model the chip is for certain because if the model number changes then other features of the snapdragon may be missing.
Click to expand...

Exactly. That's why the 1.3GHz snapdragon is the 8650A.
 
DroidAV8R said:
Understood, and no worries. I think you are in essence saying the same thing I am. In your example of Intel, I think you are right on. The difference is that Intel has a large large number of processors that share the same architecture, but are meant to be rated at different speeds. In that case, a chip can possibly be sold as a lower-speed processor, although intended to be higher-rated, along with others intended to be that way as long as it meets the lower qualifications

I think the difference here is that Qualcomm intends to rate all the 8650 chips at 1GHz, and the suggestion that HTC and Verizon would choose to put these chips that failed to meet that spec, and were subsequently given a rating of 768MHz (an un-listed, "B-stock-type" product) in their new, "Incredible," flagship phone is highly unlikely, especially since HTC is not doing the same with its other high-end devices.
Click to expand...

They are creating a higher rated processor just not a lower rated one.

Your argument that they aren't putting lower rated processors in high-end products is valid, but HTC and Verizon have also not underclocked their processors in high end devices, so who's to say one is more likely than the other.

Edit: (We know this isn't the case because another model doesn't exist...this was just my thinking when believing that a lower rated processor was being used)
 
woodraskam said:
They are creating a higher rated processor just not a lower rated one.

Your argument that they aren't putting lower rated processors in high-end products is valid, but HTC and Verizon have also not underclocked their processors in high end devices, so who's to say one is more likely than the other.
Click to expand...

Could still just be a testing thing. Keep in mind the Droiddeveloper leak said it was running at 850mhz. Maybe he was wrong or maybe its just part of testing.
 
A simpler understanding for all of us... Put a little perspective on it all.

There are two types of people in this world. These two different types are going to buy a new car. Magically they narrow it down to the same two cars.

Car A is a v8 with 350 horsepower. It is foreign so the customer service is pretty shabby. Parts take a long time to get in, they don't give you a loaner car when you do need repairs, and you have to buy the car before you even get to handle it.

Car B is a v6 with 330 horsepower. It is a foreign car too but it is sold through a domestic dealership. The dealership stays in business by providing service to this car. They keep parts in stock, they will be in your area to answer questions right away, and if god forbid your car is a lemon they will replace it or loan ya something while you wait for repairs. It's got a little less go but gets 5 miles more per gallon and has a sweet leather interior and cool cockpit displays.

Type of person 1: Goes to dealerships and says I need the car with the most power. It has to be at least a v8 with 350 horsepower. The domestic dealer tries to persuade him to his car. Listen all I have is a v6 but it only has 20 horsepower less then the v8. You also get better gas mileage so you don't have to stop for fuel every 4 hours on trips. Also it has this great interior. "Don't believe me, go take it for a spin."
Person 1: "No, sorry. It doesn't have a v8. It's not good enough for me."
goes to foreign dealer. Dealer says, "I don't have one here but if you pay for it I'll get you a v8 car." Person 1 agrees and buys car A.

Type of person 2: Goes to dealerships and says I need a car that is FAST. Foreign dealer says I got a v8. It is awesome. I don't have one here but if you buy it I can get it to you. Here is a brochure. Person 2 says he is going to look at this other car. He goes to the domestic dealership and they show him right to the car. He gets in it. "Man this leather interior is nice. Oh it looks like it gets a little more MPG too. Can I drive it?" Sure! Person 2 goes tearing around town. Damn this thing is FAST! Dealer says, "it sure is. Best part you can have this one right now, if you ever have any problems just stop by and we'll get you fixed right up." Person 2 buys car B not really caring about the number stuff but more about his experience with it.

So ask yourself. Are you Type of person 1 or 2? And just in case some one is real slow Car A=nexus one. Car B=Incredible. Person 1=people who are basing a decision on a number. Person 2=people who base decisions on real world application...aka the sane ones. haha
 
helicooper said:
A simpler understanding for all of us... Put a little perspective on it all.

There are two types of people in this world. These two different types are going to buy a new car. Magically they narrow it down to the same two cars.

Car A is a v8 with 350 horsepower. It is foreign so the customer service is pretty shabby. Parts take a long time to get in, they don't give you a loaner car when you do need repairs, and you have to buy the car before you even get to handle it.

Car B is a v6 with 330 horsepower. It is a foreign car too but it is sold through a domestic dealership. The dealership stays in business by providing service to this car. They keep parts in stock, they will be in your area to answer questions right away, and if god forbid your car is a lemon they will replace it or loan ya something while you wait for repairs. It's got a little less go but gets 5 miles more per gallon and has a sweet leather interior and cool cockpit displays.

Type of person 1: Goes to dealerships and says I need the car with the most power. It has to be at least a v8 with 350 horsepower. The domestic dealer tries to persuade him to his car. Listen all I have is a v6 but it only has 20 horsepower less then the v8. You also get better gas mileage so you don't have to stop for fuel every 4 hours on trips. Also it has this great interior. "Don't believe me, go take it for a spin."
Person 1: "No, sorry. It doesn't have a v8. It's not good enough for me."
goes to foreign dealer. Dealer says, "I don't have one here but if you pay for it I'll get you a v8 car." Person 1 agrees and buys car A.

Type of person 2: Goes to dealerships and says I need a car that is FAST. Foreign dealer says I got a v8. It is awesome. I don't have one here but if you buy it I can get it to you. Here is a brochure. Person 2 says he is going to look at this other car. He goes to the domestic dealership and they show him right to the car. He gets in it. "Man this leather interior is nice. Oh it looks like it gets a little more MPG too. Can I drive it?" Sure! Person 2 goes tearing around town. Damn this thing is FAST! Dealer says, "it sure is. Best part you can have this one right now, if you ever have any problems just stop by and we'll get you fixed right up." Person 2 buys car B not really caring about the number stuff but more about his experience with it.

So ask yourself. Are you Type of person 1 or 2? And just in case some one is real slow Car A=nexus one. Car B=Incredible. Person 1=people who are basing a decision on a number. Person 2=people who base decisions on real world application...aka the sane ones. haha
Click to expand...

I dont get it. Could you maybe create a longer analogy that would be simpler to understand? :rolleyes:
 
woodraskam said:
They are creating a higher rated processor just not a lower rated one.

Your argument that they aren't putting lower rated processors in high-end products is valid, but HTC and Verizon have also not underclocked their processors in high end devices, so who's to say one is more likely than the other.
Click to expand...

See..technically speaking all phones released are obsolete. Not just my Eris that I have grown accustomed to ATK'ing every time I return to the home screen to ensure i'll have enough oomph left to open the next program.

You are right though that HTC put an inferior processor in a phone(s) and Verizon knew this and sold it anyway. Ahem...Droid Eris, Touch Pro 2, Imagio. ::rimshot:: Sure it isn't technically speaking an inferior processor but c'mon you and I and all of us know full well it was just to reduce their stock of the MSMs.

::shakes fist at HTC::
 
Wow, after a marathon read today, I'm more than excited to get my hands on this phone. I also have to agree with calling BS on the 6GB ROM, way overkill for a ROM.

As far as 1GHz vs 768MHz, I would rather have the extended battery life with 768MHz then a fraction of a second faster response time.

The biggest selling point for me is the Sense UI 2.1 and WVGA support with the Incredible, otherwise the Eris would be fine for me. Have yet to see any camera phone compare to a Canon 40D, so that is not an issue.

Thank you NKT for the outstanding information, I just wish VZ would release this phone sooner rather than later :D

BTW, finally stepping out of the shadows too.
 
helicooper said:
A simpler understanding for all of us... Put a little perspective on it all.

There are two types of people in this world. These two different types are going to buy a new car. Magically they narrow it down to the same two cars.

Car A is a v8 with 350 horsepower. It is foreign so the customer service is pretty shabby. Parts take a long time to get in, they don't give you a loaner car when you do need repairs, and you have to buy the car before you even get to handle it.

Car B is a v6 with 330 horsepower. It is a foreign car too but it is sold through a domestic dealership. The dealership stays in business by providing service to this car. They keep parts in stock, they will be in your area to answer questions right away, and if god forbid your car is a lemon they will replace it or loan ya something while you wait for repairs. It's got a little less go but gets 5 miles more per gallon and has a sweet leather interior and cool cockpit displays.

Type of person 1: Goes to dealerships and says I need the car with the most power. It has to be at least a v8 with 350 horsepower. The domestic dealer tries to persuade him to his car. Listen all I have is a v6 but it only has 20 horsepower less then the v8. You also get better gas mileage so you don't have to stop for fuel every 4 hours on trips. Also it has this great interior. "Don't believe me, go take it for a spin."
Person 1: "No, sorry. It doesn't have a v8. It's not good enough for me."
goes to foreign dealer. Dealer says, "I don't have one here but if you pay for it I'll get you a v8 car." Person 1 agrees and buys car A.

Type of person 2: Goes to dealerships and says I need a car that is FAST. Foreign dealer says I got a v8. It is awesome. I don't have one here but if you buy it I can get it to you. Here is a brochure. Person 2 says he is going to look at this other car. He goes to the domestic dealership and they show him right to the car. He gets in it. "Man this leather interior is nice. Oh it looks like it gets a little more MPG too. Can I drive it?" Sure! Person 2 goes tearing around town. Damn this thing is FAST! Dealer says, "it sure is. Best part you can have this one right now, if you ever have any problems just stop by and we'll get you fixed right up." Person 2 buys car B not really caring about the number stuff but more about his experience with it.

So ask yourself. Are you Type of person 1 or 2? And just in case some one is real slow Car A=nexus one. Car B=Incredible. Person 1=people who are basing a decision on a number. Person 2=people who base decisions on real world application...aka the sane ones. haha
Click to expand...

Both cars may get upgraded components in the future, and it's likely that Car A will get these upgrades installed before Car B.
 
paxri01 said:
Wow, after a marathon read today, I'm more than excited to get my hands on this phone. I also have to agree with calling BS on the 6GB ROM, way overkill for a ROM.

As far as 1GHz vs 768MHz, I would rather have the extended battery life with 768MHz then a fraction of a second faster response time.

The biggest selling point for me is the Sense UI 2.1 and WVGA support with the Incredible, otherwise the Eris would be fine for me. Have yet to see any camera phone compare to a Canon 40D, so that is not an issue.

Thank you NKT for the outstanding information, I just wish VZ would release this phone sooner rather than later :D

BTW, finally stepping out of the shadows too.
Click to expand...
Welcome! Enjoy your time here. These are good people with alot of helpful info.. we appreciate that you took the time to read the thread rather than having the info spoonfed to you.:)
 
@woodraskam - Thank you for that link as well because it just goes to show that the Incredible likely will have better battery life than the Eris even though it has nearly twice the computing power(in Mhz) because if the 1.3Ghz Snapdragon is 30% more efficient than the 1.0Ghz Snapdragon you can imagine how much more efficient the 1.0Ghz Snapdragon is than the aged 528Mhz MSM7600 in the Droid Eris.

I'd wager at least 80% more efficient.
 
woodraskam said:
Both cars may get upgraded components in the future, and it's likely that Car A will get these upgrades installed before Car B.
Click to expand...

Point being that is the stuff you should be thinking about. Not bitching and moaning about a number that really means jack squat. Reminds me of people that go around trying to compare contrast ratios on tvs between different manufactures.
 
helicooper said:
A simpler understanding for all of us... Put a little perspective on it all.

There are two types of people in this world. These two different types are going to buy a new car. Magically they narrow it down to the same two cars.

Car A is a v8 with 350 horsepower. It is foreign so the customer service is pretty shabby. Parts take a long time to get in, they don't give you a loaner car when you do need repairs, and you have to buy the car before you even get to handle it.
...
Click to expand...
Damn... Normally I hate people that say this but TL;DR.

You lost me after the first paragraph.
 
woodraskam said:
They are creating a higher rated processor just not a lower rated one.

Your argument that they aren't putting lower rated processors in high-end products is valid, but HTC and Verizon have also not underclocked their processors in high end devices, so who's to say one is more likely than the other.
Click to expand...

Absolutely. Notice that the 1.3GHz processor is labeled "8650A" and not "8650"? There, Qualcomm is distinguishing the 1.3GHz from the 1GHz. Unless I've missed something, there are currently 3 classes of snapdragon chips being manufactured by Qualcomm. The 8x50 (1GHz); the 8x50A (1.3GHz), and the 8x72 (1.5GHz, Dual Core). There is no evidence that a 768MHz Snapdragon is intentionally being produced by Qualcomm.

IMHO, whether the chip is under clocked or not is irrelevant to the point I'm trying to make. I'm saying that a 768MHz, factory rated snapdragon does not appear to exist. VZW/HTC are not likely to buy chips that failed testing at their targeted rating, and are essentially being sold out the factory back door for pennies on the dollar, instead of buying legitimate, rated 8650 chipsets that have been under clocked to fit the specific purpose that HTC/VZW have in mind.
 
helicooper said:
A simpler understanding for all of us... Put a little perspective on it all.

There are two types of people in this world. These two different types are going to buy a new car. Magically they narrow it down to the same two cars.

Car A is a v8 with 350 horsepower. It is foreign so the customer service is pretty shabby. Parts take a long time to get in, they don't give you a loaner car when you do need repairs, and you have to buy the car before you even get to handle it.

Car B is a v6 with 330 horsepower. It is a foreign car too but it is sold through a domestic dealership. The dealership stays in business by providing service to this car. They keep parts in stock, they will be in your area to answer questions right away, and if god forbid your car is a lemon they will replace it or loan ya something while you wait for repairs. It's got a little less go but gets 5 miles more per gallon and has a sweet leather interior and cool cockpit displays.

Type of person 1: Goes to dealerships and says I need the car with the most power. It has to be at least a v8 with 350 horsepower. The domestic dealer tries to persuade him to his car. Listen all I have is a v6 but it only has 20 horsepower less then the v8. You also get better gas mileage so you don't have to stop for fuel every 4 hours on trips. Also it has this great interior. "Don't believe me, go take it for a spin."
Person 1: "No, sorry. It doesn't have a v8. It's not good enough for me."
goes to foreign dealer. Dealer says, "I don't have one here but if you pay for it I'll get you a v8 car." Person 1 agrees and buys car A.

Type of person 2: Goes to dealerships and says I need a car that is FAST. Foreign dealer says I got a v8. It is awesome. I don't have one here but if you buy it I can get it to you. Here is a brochure. Person 2 says he is going to look at this other car. He goes to the domestic dealership and they show him right to the car. He gets in it. "Man this leather interior is nice. Oh it looks like it gets a little more MPG too. Can I drive it?" Sure! Person 2 goes tearing around town. Damn this thing is FAST! Dealer says, "it sure is. Best part you can have this one right now, if you ever have any problems just stop by and we'll get you fixed right up." Person 2 buys car B not really caring about the number stuff but more about his experience with it.

So ask yourself. Are you Type of person 1 or 2? And just in case some one is real slow Car A=nexus one. Car B=Incredible. Person 1=people who are basing a decision on a number. Person 2=people who base decisions on real world application...aka the sane ones. haha
Click to expand...

So what dealer sells a model of car that they don't have on the lot and that they will sell you only if you buy it first without test driving it.

On the analogy scale this is probably a 3 or so. Try this analogy:

Are you A. a person that buys something based on specs and sight unseen or B. someone who buys on specs but insists that you can either return it if you are unsatisfied with it or must be allowed to try it out first.

It is a much simpler approach. Plus unlike with cars we can swap out every 2 years with only a small penalty of extending our contract. Oh man I wish I could do that with cars. Sweeeeeeeetttt!!!!!!

EDIT: Wouldn't the V6 with 330hp be the obvious choice since 20hp is not enough of a performance boost to overcome the inherent weight gain of a larger engine(assumed larger since it has 350hp). If the V8 producing 350hp is in fact the same size as the V6 then technically speaking it is a more efficient engine since it wouldn't have to work as hard as the V6 would. I.e. 3.5Liter V6 producing 330hp is less efficient than a 3.5L V8 producing 350hp because the V8 makes more horsepower per liter thus making it a more efficient engine.

P.S. Don't go on HP per cylinder because that isn't a performance measurement.
 
Evolved said:
See..technically speaking all phones released are obsolete. Not just my Eris that I have grown accustomed to ATK'ing every time I return to the home screen to ensure i'll have enough oomph left to open the next program.

You are right though that HTC put an inferior processor in a phone(s) and Verizon knew this and sold it anyway. Ahem...Droid Eris, Touch Pro 2, Imagio. ::rimshot:: Sure it isn't technically speaking an inferior processor but c'mon you and I and all of us know full well it was just to reduce their stock of the MSMs.

::shakes fist at HTC::
Click to expand...


Agreed! But all of those MSM's were listed products.
 
helicooper said:
Point being that is the stuff you should be thinking about. Not bitching and moaning about a number that really means jack squat. Reminds me of people that go around trying to compare contrast ratios on tvs between different manufactures.
Click to expand...

As much as you say it doesn't matter, some people may really appreciate the speed up in processing power, as well as not having the overhead processing for Sense. Saying that this means jack squat isn't really true, unless there isn't a speed up that is perceivable by the user, but as other have mentioned, when using an overclocked DROID they can tell the difference.

In short many people like the gas guzzler even if they have to refill it more often, or carry around a spare tank of gas.
 
DroidAV8R said:
Absolutely. Notice that the 1.3GHz processor is labeled "8650A" and not "8650"? There, Qualcomm is distinguishing the 1.3GHz from the 1GHz. Unless I've missed something, there are currently 3 classes of snapdragon chips being manufactured by Qualcomm. The 8x50 (1GHz); the 8x50A (1.3GHz), and the 8x72 (1.5GHz, Dual Core). There is no evidence that a 768MHz Snapdragon is intentionally being produced by Qualcomm.

IMHO, whether the chip is under clocked or not is irrelevant to the point I'm trying to make. I'm saying that a 768MHz, factory rated snapdragon does not appear to exist. VZW/HTC are not likely to buy chips that failed testing at their targeted rating, and are essentially being sold out the factory back door for pennies on the dollar, instead of buying legitimate, rated 8650 chipsets that have been under clocked to fit the specific purpose that HTC/VZW have in mind.
Click to expand...

I agree, I actually thought my last post was gonna be misleading so I went back and edited to say that's my reasoning (You just must have refreshed before I made the edit), when I believed the lower rated processor existed, but now that I know there is no such processor, I know that they aren't using a lower rated processor.
 
Evolved said:
So what dealer sells a model of car that they don't have on the lot and that they will sell you only if you buy it first without test driving it.

On the analogy scale this is probably a 3 or so. Try this analogy:

Are you A. a person that buys something based on specs and sight unseen or B. someone who buys on specs but insists that you can either return it if you are unsatisfied with it or must be allowed to try it out first.

It is a much simpler approach. Plus unlike with cars we can swap out every 2 years with only a small penalty of extending our contract. Oh man I wish I could do that with cars. Sweeeeeeeetttt!!!!!!

EDIT: Wouldn't the V6 with 330hp be the obvious choice since 20hp is not enough of a performance boost to overcome the inherent weight gain of a larger engine(assumed larger since it has 350hp). If the V8 producing 350hp is in fact the same size as the V6 then technically speaking it is a more efficient engine since it wouldn't have to work as hard as the V6 would. I.e. 3.5Liter V6 producing 330hp is less efficient than a 3.5L V8 producing 350hp because the V8 makes more horsepower per liter thus making it a more efficient engine.

P.S. Don't go on HP per cylinder because that isn't a performance measurement.
Click to expand...

much better. im tired and rambling. Although I would take out the part of person b and replace it with person b: buys a car based on how well it drives rather then specs.
 
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