• After 15+ years, we've made a big change: Android Forums is now Early Bird Club. Learn more here.

Finally some blunt honesty about 4.x

Status
Not open for further replies.
omnius

omnius

Android Enthusiast
Frankly I'm getting so sick of the apologist denial about android fragmentation issues. ICS has been out for 10 months and yet is only on 7% of all owned android phones. If this is a joke it's a terrible one:

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/hardware/android-4-1-jelly-bean-another-update-most-will-never-see/21003

One thing I know for sure is it will be a cold day in hell before I ever buy a non-nexus android phone. Lesson learned.

Just to head off the custom ROM argument which I know will make its way in a reply: ICS/JB builds for most phones are still in alpha stage and will continue to be so, until devs get access to the proper drivers, which will only happen when Motorola, Samsung, HTC etc releases an OEM ICS image. Most ICS builds now don't have proper rotation support, and wifi is flakey. Not to mention the fact that right now, ICS/JB builds gimp the camcorder to the point where you have to use a ridiculous emulation app to use it (and even then, the resolution is horrible).

Besides the most obvious point, which is that I shouldn't have to root and bootloader unlock in order to remedy OS updates that are a YEAR behind. A YEAR.
 
Good article but its the cold truth. I recently updated from an LG Thrill to a One X. My Thrill came stock with 2.2 while majority of the handsets that released during its time was already on 2.3.x. It finally received 2.3.5 (gingerbread) update February of this year and probably will never see Ice Cream Sandwich. Like someone mentioned above......from here on I will only buy a Nexus device and pray to the man upstairs at&t gets it when its released. The problem now is which model Nexus will they have considering there's a few models. Supposibly model 1 is updated by Google itself and model 2 is updated by the carrier (current Galaxy Nexus for example is still waiting for JB as we speak). I believe the guy who wrote the article that Google and the carriers only care about money and updating a phone will cause them to lose out on it. Hopefully one day the FCC can come into play and put some pressure on Google. Until then its Nexus from here on.
 
Still pretty dismal and I was rounding upwards to convey the proper flavor of my outrage :p
But in my defense I did state a more accurate release date if roughly 10 months earlier in the OP. Although I'm pretty confident that some OEM's will take a full year since they only have 2 months left to go before it becomes a full year
 
Androids fragmentation doesn't mean anything to the vast majority of Android users. I would be willing to bet most wouldn't be able to tell you what version they were on.
 
Don't buy your phone for what you think it will have in the future, buy it for what it has now. And if you absolutely, positively have to have the latest OS, then buy a Nexus phone. Otherwise, be happy with what you have, and updates aren't always good. The final update I got on my Droid X, Gingerbread build. 621, turned my phone into an unreliable turd, and also broke the ability to SBF back to. 608. So basically, don't assume the grass is always greener on the other side of the OS fence.
 
Implying that the vast majority of android users are ignorant of fragmentation makes it OK? I disagree. Also, yes certain updates cause screw ups. However most of those updates are OEM updates specific to that device, not Android OS updates. All that does is illustrate what a boondoggle fragmentation causes, not argue it.

Let's stay with the topic of the article above. Android is currently the only smartphone OS that takes a year for a version release to go from fully baked to the end user. It's the platform's biggest weakness. I pray for the day Google grows a set and either forces their OEM partners and the carriers to toe the line, or, kicks them all to the curb by making their own hardware. Until that day comes I'll be giving Samsung Motorola and HTC the one-finger salute and buying either one of the Google made nexus phones they claim is going to be made by Google themselves or jumping platforms.
 
This pretty much sums it up:
Google is primarily interested in new handset activation and increased market share above all else, not in creating a unified ecosystem. The handset makers have sold you a phone and hope to never hear from you again until it's time to buy again. And finally, the carriers already have you hooked up to a multi-year contract and don't care a jot about what operating system your smartphone is running.
Click to expand...
ICS was a huge deal and a big upgrade over GB. I'm sure it is pretty difficult for the manufacturers to skin it over and update your phones.
Basically, they consider one update within a contract period sufficient and I agree. Considering that, I still will likely stick with only Nexus devices (as long as VZW picks up the next one which who knows?).
 
As already said,a huge number of people don't even know that they can update, my mum won't have updated her iPad, my dad is still on gingerbread with his note while my brothers ace is stick on Froyo, they know there are updates available as I told them so, but they won't do it.... If people are all that bothered about updates many will know about rooting and go for that option, id love 2 and 3 updates per phone, but if such a vast number don't bother doing it, the companies won't see the need to work on the software, especially with custom roms available!
 
Some apps have trouble getting updates right. I'd rather have a working app. Some of the new extras don't entice certain people, me included. I don't want face recognition, I am not going to social network and connect all social apps, so why bother for stuff I won't use? I don't need maps, I don't care where the restaurants and tourist traps are, I don't care who is in my location. I don't bank on the phone or do anything personal. If NFC gets started, I'll start paying cash just to be a pain.

I want memory and speedy apps that I do use. I'd like to get rid of all the extras permanently - not just disable them - without having to root.
 
While this issue bothers me, there are plenty of people that it also does not bother. Half the android devices in my area are from pay as you go carriers that will most likely never see an update the way it is, and all these people are perfectly fine with that.

There are users that don't mind having the old out dated os, I just think about how much better it was than my first few phones in the early 00's . I remember my first web enabled phone, I thought it was the coolest thing and it made a lot of people jealous that I could view the internet from my phone.. although it was like a 1''x2'' display haha
But I am a person that always wants the latest and greatest of everything, I am on ICS and hoping that I will see JB on my Razr as many predict it will, but until it is, I will be fine.
 
I was listening to "TheVerge's" Mobile podcast when the said it best:


Google Nexus phones are Google experience devices - real android devices,

Samsung phones are Samsung experience devices that can run android apps - it's not android, it's Samsung, but can run Android apps.

Doesn't mean one is better than the other but it's a better way of thinking things. I am always tempted to switch to the S3 from the Nexus because I love the looks, design, camera, and hardware - It even has a great Dev community so I can get my stock android fix.....but there is something so special about owning a nexus devices...something so special indeed.
 
dreadnatty08 said:
ICS was a huge deal and a big upgrade over GB. I'm sure it is pretty difficult for the manufacturers to skin it over and update your phones.
Click to expand...
This is a good point. I'd image that the change from ICS to JB wouldn't be a huge leap in terms of OEM overlays. Not nearly as much so as the jump from GB to ICS would be.
MarcMaiden said:
I am always tempted to switch to the S3 from the Nexus because I love the looks, design, camera, and hardware - It even has a great Dev community so I can get my stock android fix.....but there is something so special about owning a nexus devices...something so special indeed.
Click to expand...
I was in this same situation a few weeks ago.... the s3 looked like an awesome phone - spec wise. And feature wise too. But the nexus is just so nice. :D

Back to the comment about users being unaware of their version (and thus fragmentation), I think that's valid. No one in my family save me knows what version their phone is running. It's fine that way. They need a functioning device... I, on the other hand, want to know all the juicy details. ;D:smokingsomb:
 
omnius said:
Implying that the vast majority of android users are ignorant of fragmentation makes it OK? I disagree. Also, yes certain updates cause screw ups. However most of those updates are OEM updates specific to that device, not Android OS updates. All that does is illustrate what a boondoggle fragmentation causes, not argue it.

Let's stay with the topic of the article above. Android is currently the only smartphone OS that takes a year for a version release to go from fully baked to the end user. It's the platform's biggest weakness. I pray for the day Google grows a set and either forces their OEM partners and the carriers to toe the line, or, kicks them all to the curb by making their own hardware. Until that day comes I'll be giving Samsung Motorola and HTC the one-finger salute and buying either one of the Google made nexus phones they claim is going to be made by Google themselves or jumping platforms.
Click to expand...

OK, how about this: getting a bunch of OS updates on a device might stretch the device kind of thin after a while. My Droid X shipped with Eclair (2.1), then got an update to Froyo (2.2), then got updated to Gingerbread (2.3), and each version of the OS got atl least one maintenence OTA. By the end of the contract, the phone was no longer snappy and quick like it used to be, but laggy and unreliable. I think it got updated to the edge of it's hardware capability. Besides, is fragmentation a huge issue in the PC world? There are several different versions of Windows in wide use still (XP, Vista, Win 7, probably some Win 200 out there too), and so many different hardware combos that it puts Android handsets to shame. Yet you never hear people bitching about fragmentation there.

I think the fragmentation issue was blown out of proportion by Apple to try to make themselves look better. Although it's been shown that there is plenty of fragmentation in iOS land too, between hardware (3G, 3Gs, 4, 4s) and versions of iOS installed, because not everyone plugs into iTunes and updates everytime there is an update. My mom has an iPhone 4, and she's never updated it in the almost 2 years she's had it. Honestly, I'm just sick of hearing about fragmentation, especially since it exists on every platform, and I haven't seen it be a weakness anywhere. And the only people who really do think it's a weakness on Android are the ones who know how to work around it anyways, so what does it matter?
 
Two the last 2 posters (It appears I need to combine the two of you into one nickname. Hmmm...):
I know the windows PC argument. Someone always tries it in a fragmentation discussion. Its a terrible argument.

I can get stock windows 7 on any PC regardless of who makes it. Instantly, as soon as it becomes available.
 
Gingerbread already has more features than other platforms.

They can do 3 updates this year and still be behind.

Switching platforms to get timely updates to an out of date system hardly seems like a good solution.

You already identified the solution for you - get a Nexus.

Not sure what other point there is... ;)
 
Now days I just buy phones based on how hackable they are :D

The problem, I think, is not android itself, its the handset manufactures and carriers. They are the ones that insist on putting their own twist on things. Many people think vanilla android is boring. That and each carrier has to have the software tailored to their network. GSM phones use a different radio then the CDMA and the software needs to know this, so there is a delay right there. Then the skin, sense, touch-wiz (think they could come up with something a little better?) blur, well, all need the base version of android coded for that to make sure the handset manufacturers software works with the base system. Then the carrier bloat, well, same thing.

I do agree, but I don't think its androids fault because the base system is just that. Vanilla android. Its what the handset makers and carriers are doing to cause some of this fragmentation. Also, yes, the pace that android phones are being made, almost a new phone is announced every month.

I do wish carriers would not bloat and the handset makers would not add their own twist on things. But I suspect that some of the less technically inclined would not like a strait up vanilla version of android on their device. Many people just want a device that works. And some just buy the device to actually use it as intended not caring what all it can do.
 
ajdroidx said:
Now days I just buy phones based on how hackable they are :D
Click to expand...

Yes, this.

Android is fragmented. That's down to manufacturers making different spec devices at different times. This is the "price" of choice.

A HTC hero wont run ICS well. Plus HTC want you using a One X.

If you buy an iphone, you may get 1 major update. Possibly 2. Nothing else is updated like android or iPhone. It's unrealistic of the consumer to expect it.

You're only angry about it because you know there is a new version and you haven't got it. Your iphone 1 hasn't got os5.

Why is it if an ios user wants and update, they buy a new iPhone but an android user complains about fragmentation?! (Rhetorical)...

Android users have got it better than ANY other platform yet still we complain that we haven't got enough. I think those of us whom remove our biased sense of entitlement will see this. Everyone else needs to understand that when you buy a phone, you buy it as is.

The whole fragmentation argument is ill conceived and contradictory anyway.

We want all phones updated with increased functionality without being forced to buy a new phone?

Well my 2 year old desire wont handle ics properly yet I want ics to be a leap forward technically? This "ideal" is not conducive with reality.


Add: I saw an iPhone user with an iPhone 1 the other day. He held it to his face as if he was making a call. if he really tried, he probably could use email and Calendaring too. Sure its not shiny shiny
 
Just to put this into perspective, there isn't one iPhone generation the runs the same exact software as a previous generation, regardless of the label. That's called "Fragmentation".

So Apple's "Fragmentation" level is 100%.
 
SUroot said:
Yes, this.

Android is fragmented. That's down to manufacturers making different spec devices at different times. This is the "price" of choice.

A HTC hero wont run ICS well. Plus HTC want you using a One X.

If you buy an iphone, you may get 1 major update. Possibly 2. Nothing else is updated like android or iPhone. It's unrealistic of the consumer to expect it.

You're only angry about it because you know there is a new version and you haven't got it. Your iphone 1 hasn't got os5.

Why is it if an ios user wants and update, they buy a new iPhone but an android user complains about fragmentation?! (Rhetorical)...

Android users have got it better than ANY other platform yet still we complain that we haven't got enough. I think those of us whom remove our biased sense of entitlement will see this. Everyone else needs to understand that when you buy a phone, you buy it as is.

The whole fragmentation argument is ill conceived and contradictory anyway.

We want all phones updated with increased functionality without being forced to buy a new phone?

Well my 2 year old desire wont handle ics properly yet I want ics to be a leap forward technically? This "ideal" is not conducive with reality.
Click to expand...

Totally disagree. I want phones that CAN handle it to not wait close to a year for it. Are you claiming the chipset on a Spring 2011 dual core can't handle ICS? The manufacturer disagrees with you if they announce it will get it...

... nearly a freakin year after it's out. Yet you appear to find this quite acceptable judging by how easy you find it to be dismissive about it.
 
Once again, this has to do with the BLOAT and the SKIN the handset manufacturer has added to the device.

While (I believe) the iphone 3g can run iOS5, I think some stuff is missing from it, like siri for example.

--------

Lets talk computer hardware... right now I am running a i7-860 system for a desktop. There is not much else I can add to it as far as upgrades. Sure, perhaps a video card or more ram, but other then that, I feel as if I hit a wall. Any significant upgrades are going to pretty much require a complete overhall. I paid nearly 2 grand for this system when I built it a couple years ago. The problem? I guess it could be called fragmentation, but that is actually not quite the case, the same with smartphones. Its the way technology is moving. The chips intel now has out run on a 22nm process, while my i7-860 runs on a 45nm process. Yes, both chips will run pretty much anything I can personally through at them, but the ivy bridge has the intel graphics HD 4000 built right into the CPU.

I am vering off... so pretty much as far as smart phones are concerned:

They are computers. They are built on technology that is constantly progressing. The handset makers add their own software on top of the existing software. Oh, and politics (patents, licensing, etc)

As far as apple? They don't deliver that many updates either, aside from patches that require (the last time I checked) a 700mb file (the complete image) to download just so they could plug some hole some hacker exploited to jailbreak the device. Other then that, not many major updates.

If you want a phone that will get a couple updates over the course of your contract, that can "Handle" the next great software update, then:
A nexus device OR something you can easily hack into. Or an iPhone.

Sorry, thats the way it is. Technology moves forward, the hardware, the software etc. That old phone is NOT going to make them money. The new device is. Its like this even with apple. Hell, recent apple updates to its operating system is starting to leave owners of previous generations of devices out in the cold.

And, you don't need the latest software or hardware to have a working device. Sorry, you don't. I have a droid x that I am sure still works, if I would charge the battery and activate the line.

You wanted blunt honesty. There you go :)

Not trying to start anything with you, really. I do see your point. It sucks to see everyone around you getting updates and new functionality to their devices while you are stuck with a decrepit old brick (not calling your device that, just using that as an example). Its a bummer needing to shell out more money to get something that allows you to do more stuff. But its like that for pretty much everything tech. Tablets, computers, TVs, routers, etc. :)
 
omnius said:
I can get stock windows 7 on any PC regardless of who makes it. Instantly, as soon as it becomes available.
Click to expand...


yes.. you can get the newest OS on computers. but NOT FREE!!! how much is it? several hundred dollars. This is a huge difference!

if Google can charge you $99+ for any version upgrade ...
i am sure they would spend more in development for a library of drivers for all situations on all phone setups! dont you think?


Fragmentation... to me, it is just trying to look to big at a simple situation.
like before i learned how to drive... watching my dad drive down the highway towards a HUGE interchange with ramps going in all directions (North, South, East, West, and side street exits too). it was scary, i thought i would never learn all them and know which way to go. But if you just forget all the other, BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT ON THOSE ROADS, then your choices are simple. If you have a phone, just think about what that phone can update too. why think about all 100 phones and what version they are on? how does that affect you, if phone X is on a new version and z is on an older version?

if you want new features, then upgrade to a new phone.

if there are bugs / issues .. the OEM should send out upDATES fixes.


and i agree.. it is the Apple distortion field marketing.. trying to make this a big deal! it is NOT.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom