Hey, Linux Geeks

[zuben el genub]

I finally got a chance to download and play with both Kubuntu 12.10and Mint Cinnamon 14.

Computer ran both with no problems. I would like to know a few facts about both.

How will both do with Grub? Right now, grub comes up first and I get my choice of which hard drive. Playing with the live versions - Kubuntu didn't even see the other hard drive, but Mint did. I could grab an image from the XP desktop and give Gimp a trial run.

It looks like I can put that panel where the menu is on the top of the page in Mint. Saw nothing like that in Kubuntu. Both had a really good selection of stuff in the software center type apps.

How easy is it to install stuff from outside the software centers? I have Iron Browser installed on Ubuntu. I also have ESET AV since I download for 2 offline windows machines. I also use FX and TB ESR. I saved the downloads. Will those install in either Kubuntu or Mint? I also need StartPage search engine. I think the browser can deal with that.

I see Kubuntu managed to drag all that Amazon junk with it. I don't intend to use it - can I delete it?

Mint has those workspaces. I don't like those. Can you make just one workspace?

Can you get rid of any social junk in Mint? I didn't see as much as I did in Kubuntu.

Kubuntu didn't seem to see any extras like the webcam. Mint did find it.
I would have to put Skype on either OS. I would prefer that Skype would find the sound card and the web cam.

I also see Abiword and Inkscape for both, I don't need an office suite.

Kubuntu had Stellarium listed in the software, Mint didn't. Both had K-Stars. Can I get Stellarium and Virtual Moon Atlas into Mint?

I like solitaire games - Kubuntu has a slew of them - couldn't find any on Mint. Can I get what Kubuntu offers somehow on Mint?

Had no problems doing anything in either distro.

Thanks

 

[argedion]

I'm not very fluent with debian products but I know that both kubuntu and linux mint are flavors of ubuntu which comes from debian. you should be able to install any (.deb) package with either one of them. As far as installing other third party stuff I believe it must be in a deb package you may find it easier to just add the repository to the group and allow the downloads from there. I'm also not very fluent on most of the programs you mention but Solitaire is a KDE feature and cinnamon is a Gnome derivative. KDE is more full featured and offers a lot more than most of the others however Gnome has its own arsenal The newer Gnome desktop has some people mumbling about how bad it is but it really just takes getting used to. As far as you hardware goes both should be pretty comparable as they come from the same foundation however both will have those things that are native to it and not to the other. I know they have a Skype for Linux and I'm sure since both distro's are popular they should have a Skype that you can use for your chosen system

 

[palmtree5]

If the software you are looking for is open source, you should be able to get the source code and build it yourself. You may also be able to find it pre-built and be able to install it after downloading

 

[zuben el genub]

I'm not that advanced. Wish I was.

 

[zuben el genub]

Is there an Old Version site for Linux?

I can go find older copies of browsers, etc from the site for Windows.

The version of Skype that I downloaded last January worked just fine. It was before Microsoft got hold of it. I'd like to get that version.

 

[9to5cynic]

I'm not sure about older versions of skype, but I think many of the sites have older versions for things like web browsers.

And really, installing from a tar.gz file isn't too bad. I was really nervous about it at first, but you just extract the file and open the folder. From there you just run some pretty easy commands (see the README.txt file first ) ... it usually is something like:
configure, make, make install

Look for Libre Office, that's the office suite that I think most people use...

 

[MoodyBlues]

I finally got a chance to download and play with both Kubuntu 12.10and Mint Cinnamon 14.

Computer ran both with no problems. I would like to know a few facts about both.

I don't recall trying Mint [I may have...but I don't think so], so I can't help you with specifics about it.

How will both do with Grub? Right now, grub comes up first and I get my choice of which hard drive. Playing with the live versions - Kubuntu didn't even see the other hard drive, but Mint did. I could grab an image from the XP desktop and give Gimp a trial run.

I've never seen Kubuntu not recognize hard drives, so I'm a bit puzzled. When you say "the other hard drive," do you literally mean a second hard drive, or are you referring to partitions on one drive? Either way, when you're running Kubuntu, see if there's a disk utility available; this would be something like 'KDE Partition Manager,' which will let you view the computer's hard drive(s). I actually don't use that particular app, as I always install gParted (which is a GNOME disk utility) because I prefer it, but when you're running the live CD you probably won't have access to gParted.

It looks like I can put that panel where the menu is on the top of the page in Mint. Saw nothing like that in Kubuntu.

For the most part, KDE is KDE. I can tell you unequivocally that Kubuntu--which is Ubuntu with KDE as its desktop environment--is totally customizable. You can place panels (yes, as in plural) wherever you want them.

How easy is it to install stuff from outside the software centers?

Very easy.

I see Kubuntu managed to drag all that Amazon junk with it. I don't intend to use it - can I delete it?

I don't know what you're referring to. But, again, Kubuntu is completely customizable. You can get rid of anything you don't want. Unlike in windows.

ETA: I had no idea what this Ubuntu/Amazon thing was all about, as I don't use Ubuntu--I use Kubuntu--and haven't seen its 12.10 version. A quick Google search provided answers. And solutions.

First of all, if you're not using the 'Dash' application, you'll be untouched by this issue.

But you can get rid of its Amazon integration by issuing this command:

sudo apt-get remove unity-lens-shopping

I got the above from this very informative article.

Mint has those workspaces. I don't like those. Can you make just one workspace?

Sorry, but I'm a multi-decade UNIX person. I cannot IMAGINE life with only one desktop, a la windoze. Just blows me away that anyone WOULDN'T want multiple desktops, or workspaces as I guess they're being called now. One of my routines after wiping windoze off a new computer and installing Linux is to set my desktops at 9. That's just a good, workable number for me. I can't imagine being limited to one...or only wanting one. But to each their own: YES, you can set that to anything that makes you happy, including one. And it's not just Mint, it's all Linuxes to the best of my knowledge. We've had multiple desktops in the *nix world FOREVER. I started on SCO Xenix in 1985 and never knew anything BUT having multiple desktops, or 'consoles' as they were called back then.

Can you get rid of any social junk in Mint? I didn't see as much as I did in Kubuntu.

See above--the part about being completely customizable.

Kubuntu didn't seem to see any extras like the webcam. Mint did find it.

Kubuntu sees my webcams just fine. I didn't need to do anything to make that happen.

I would have to put Skype on either OS. I would prefer that Skype would find the sound card and the web cam.

Skype runs perfectly on my computers; no issues at all.

I also see Abiword and Inkscape for both, I don't need an office suite.

Apps like that are available on all Linuxes.

Kubuntu had Stellarium listed in the software, Mint didn't. Both had K-Stars. Can I get Stellarium and Virtual Moon Atlas into Mint?

Probably. But I don't know from personal experience.

I like solitaire games - Kubuntu has a slew of them - couldn't find any on Mint. Can I get what Kubuntu offers somehow on Mint?

Perhaps. But more likely you can simply find apps you want and then install them. How you go about doing that will depend on what type of file they are. On *buntu, I use the alien command to install things from deb files (Debian), RPM files (Red Hat), TGZ files (Slackware) and others.

Had no problems doing anything in either distro.

That's how it should be! Modern Linux, depending on distro, should be virtually painless. It's no longer necessary to be a UNIX command line aficionado [like me! ] to install and use Linux. Everything should just work, including printers, wireless keyboards/trackball/mice, wireless Internet, movie DVDs, etc. I can't really recall the last time I ran into an actual PROBLEM that required any of my [rapidly deteriorating] *nix wizardry.

 

[Speed Daemon]

Is there an Old Version site for Linux?

Yes. All versions of Linux since 1.0 are at the Kernel.org website. Here's a shortcut.

I'm not that advanced.

Then you'll be better off sticking with the Linux kernel that's provided by a particular Linux distribution. Some distributions have repositories with past releases of the distribution. Unless you have a good reason to use an older version, you're better off sticking with the latest release. If you do have a good reason, backports will help keep older software patched against bugs and other vulnerabilities.

 

[palmtree5]

Is there an Old Version site for Linux?

Yes. All versions of Linux since 1.0 are at the Kernel.org website. Here's a shortcut.

I believe that the question was referring to software, not the kernel

 

[Speed Daemon]

I believe that the question was referring to software, not the kernel

Linux is the kernel. It's also software. What's your point?

 

[palmtree5]

My point is I don't believe the question was about older versions of the kernel but rather older versions of other software

 

[9to5cynic]

It's pretty slim, but it looks like oldapps.com/linux has some....

Again, there aren't many, and I personally recommend trying to find them from the original publishers. I think many of the sourceforge projects keep old versions.

 

[saptech]

Best bet is probably get an older version of the distro. Then you can add newer versions of programs you would like. Those Buntus and offshoots are going to be bleeding edge with software, meaning they're going to offer the latest versions.

As 9to5cynic said, you may can find some from the original developers.

 

[mikedt]

I finally got a chance to download and play with both Kubuntu 12.10and Mint Cinnamon 14.

Computer ran both with no problems. I would like to know a few facts about both.

How will both do with Grub? Right now, grub comes up first and I get my choice of which hard drive. Playing with the live versions - Kubuntu didn't even see the other hard drive, but Mint did. I could grab an image from the XP desktop and give Gimp a trial run.

It looks like I can put that panel where the menu is on the top of the page in Mint. Saw nothing like that in Kubuntu. Both had a really good selection of stuff in the software center type apps.

How easy is it to install stuff from outside the software centers? I have Iron Browser installed on Ubuntu. I also have ESET AV since I download for 2 offline windows machines. I also use FX and TB ESR. I saved the downloads. Will those install in either Kubuntu or Mint? I also need StartPage search engine. I think the browser can deal with that.

I see Kubuntu managed to drag all that Amazon junk with it. I don't intend to use it - can I delete it?

The only Amazon thing I've seen is the Amazon MP3 Store, that comes with the Banshee media player > Online Media. Presumably the Banshee folks get commission if you buy any songs from it. Not much good though unless you're in the States. Last.FM is in there as well. If you don't like it you can always remove it and install another media player, there's plenty to choose from. Rhythm Box is good.

Mint has those workspaces. I don't like those. Can you make just one workspace?

I'm using Linux Mint 13 "Maya" at the moment. The default seems to be one workspace. Always add more if required.

Can you get rid of any social junk in Mint? I didn't see as much as I did in Kubuntu.

AFAIK Kubuntu etc. just comes with Pidgin IM. Don't know about any other social stuff.

Kubuntu didn't seem to see any extras like the webcam. Mint did find it.
I would have to put Skype on either OS. I would prefer that Skype would find the sound card and the web cam.

I also see Abiword and Inkscape for both, I don't need an office suite.

Kubuntu had Stellarium listed in the software, Mint didn't. Both had K-Stars. Can I get Stellarium and Virtual Moon Atlas into Mint?

You'll find Stallarium in the Software Manager, and Virtual Moon Atlas for Linux can be downloaded from SourceForge.

I like solitaire games - Kubuntu has a slew of them - couldn't find any on Mint. Can I get what Kubuntu offers somehow on Mint?

AFAIK Mint doesn't include any games by default. Look for "Aisleriot" in the Software Manager, has many different solitaire variants. Linux Mint shares the same software repos as Kubuntu/Ubuntu, so what's available for Kubuntu, is available for Mint.

 

[zuben el genub]

Downloaded and burned both DVDs as instructions read.

Did have trouble with Kubuntu and periphreals.

Kubuntu didn't see the web cam which was on. Kubuntu also wouldn't recognized the Wacom tablet and said so. Mint saw both immediately. I didn't check the printers.
I could also access the XP drive from Mint. Kubuntu didn't even see it. That's why I questioned Grub.

I'm leaning more towards the Mint. See if it resolves the other issue I have with Ubuntu. I can't use the safe mode in Ubuntu as it won't accept the password I put in on install. Just says wrong username/password. Plus Software Center seems to be buggered. Someone said it could be a bad upgrade from download, but the password issue appeared in the original version which was on a CD. My computer has never been passworded. I'm the only user.

Re: old version. I want the version of Skype I have now. It works. I don't trust MS.
Trouble is, I got it from the software center and don't know how get the same version for Mint or Kubuntu.

I have Iron, FX ESR, TB ESR, Eset as tar.gz files. I know I can save those.
I can backup all pictures, videos, downloads - is there anything else I should back up to transfer?

Is sourceforge any good for much else? I use Audacity, and I don't think I saw that either in Mint's collection. Otherwise, very similar.

I'll run both again and see if opinion has changed - plus check the printers and scanner.

Mint also states that the distros are supported longer. Are they?

Thanks

 

[zuben el genub]

About multiple desktops -
I am a windows user, have been since DOS. I primarily run Photoshop. and the newer versions are real memory hogs. I give PS the whole drive to run as a scratch disk. That's why no extras. All memory and CPU belong PS in windows. So that's what I'm used to. I don't plan to go beyond PS5, and will stay with XP. But can't really configure hardware more unless I upgrade to 7.

 

[MoodyBlues]

About multiple desktops -
I am a windows user, have been since DOS.

I'm sorry.

I primarily run Photoshop.

How invested are you in PS? I mean, are you willing to try alternatives? I use the GIMP for everything I do in terms of graphics/images and not only does it run like lightning, but it's free. I'm running a newer version of it on my oldest laptop, the one I've mentioned having resurrected by installing Bodhi Linux on it, and it's as fast as can be; I stick with an older version on my 'real' laptop because I happen to like the older version better.

and the newer versions are real memory hogs. I give PS the whole drive to run as a scratch disk. That's why no extras. All memory and CPU belong PS in windows. So that's what I'm used to. I don't plan to go beyond PS5, and will stay with XP. But can't really configure hardware more unless I upgrade to 7.

As a Linux-only user, I can't even imagine having to put up with that. Really.

 

[zuben el genub]

I have the computer upgraded around PS requirements. I just bring the PS box and the computer to the tech. He makes suggestions and I pick what I want.

There are some things Gimp just doesn't do the way I want. I've played with it. I don't like the way is sizes images. I prefer PS. I also prefer Camera Raw. I use Bridge rather than Lightroom to sort.

I have Illustrator and Indesign along with Photoshop. I got them all while in school so I just upgraded. I've been using PS and Illustrator since version 3. I'm not upgrading anymore as all they are adding is fluff. I've got someone's book on the Gimp, but I'm not that impressed. If I was just drawing and painting, I probably could use the Gimp, but I simply don't like its photo editing. Inkscape, on the other hand, I can use. I have to use it for SVC files as I have a program that wants that format.

All is paid for, I'm not upgrading the software although I might get some larger hard drives - so free is moot. I'm also usually pressed for time and in no mood to play with an unfamiliar program. If the weather is good, I'd rather be outside. I also have other hobbies I'm involved in, and they take time also. I'd probably feel the same way about PS, except that we had quite a few semesters on PS, Illustrator, and PageMaker.

Don't get me wrong. I feel about MS the way most here feel about Apple. I've even gone so far as to run a shell to get rid of that POS IE.

I have other programs that Linux simply has no equivalent for. I can digitize for embroidery, and all the embroidery programs for years were designed for Windows. So one XP machine is necessary. Someone did have lessons for designing a quilt in the Gimp. I would rather use Illustrator as I want a vector image.

Everything else in Linux is just fine. Abiword is close to the old Word Perfect, there's some good astronomy programs, and I have printing straightened out. Scan to PDF works fairly well. I can get to the ext. card in my phone and back up. Editing video is OK. Editing music a little harder if I'm messing with MID files. Neither player in either Kubuntu or Mint wanted to play MID. I use those for ringtones.

Except for Adobe and Babylock Designers Gallery - Ubuntu is more efficient. Ubuntu is also dealing with my old IBM clicker keyboards! Just don't tell me to use a windows key. I haven't got one.

I'll do some more playing with Kubuntu and Mint after Sunday. We are Skyping with kid in the UK. That's more important.

Thanks for the input.

 

[mikedt]

Everything else in Linux is just fine. Abiword is close to the old Word Perfect, there's some good astronomy programs, and I have printing straightened out. Scan to PDF works fairly well. I can get to the ext. card in my phone and back up. Editing video is OK. Editing music a little harder if I'm messing with MID files. Neither player in either Kubuntu or Mint wanted to play MID. I use those for ringtones.

Install TiMidity, it's in the Package Manager. The standard Freepats soundbank sounds rather poor and toy like though, but is no worse than the crappy Roland SoundCanvas thing that comes with Windows.

BTW there's a Chinese knock-off of Guitar Hero called Guitar Fever. Which is an all-in-one guitar controller and game system, you plug into the TV. The music it plays sounds dreadful. I'm quite sure that's using a midi format with a very poor synth. There's a review of it on YouTube, look for "Guitar Fever Review", it's hilarious.

 

[MoodyBlues]

I have the computer upgraded around PS requirements. I just bring the PS box and the computer to the tech. He makes suggestions and I pick what I want.

If you're comfortable with that, and it works well for you, great!

There are some things Gimp just doesn't do the way I want.

Are you SURE? I have yet to find anything it can't do. Of course, I realize that my graphics needs and your graphics needs aren't necessarily the same, but it's hard to imagine anything the GIMP can't do. I have online shops [at CafePress, Zazzle, and other print-on-demand companies], and I do everything for them with the GIMP. If you'd like to see some of what I'm talking about, take a look at this shop. Most of my shops involve text slogans, but I also have photography shops, and every bit of everything is done with the GIMP.

I've played with it. I don't like the way is sizes images.

Care to elaborate a bit? Could it be a...gasp!...user problem?!

I've got someone's book on the Gimp, but I'm not that impressed. If I was just drawing and painting, I probably could use the Gimp, but I simply don't like its photo editing.

Again, for me the GIMP is perfectly fine when it comes to photo editing. And since I don't know what you've tried and why you didn't like it, I'm kind of at a loss. I mean, I don't know if the GIMP is the problem...or you are. I know when I started using the GIMP there were many things I thought it couldn't do. Well, not exactly. *I* didn't know how to use it to do those things.

I'm also usually pressed for time and in no mood to play with an unfamiliar program.

I hear you. But it may be worth it if you end up being able to use a program that's not only free, but doesn't require an entire computer devoted just to it in order to run!

If the weather is good, I'd rather be outside.

Wait...don't you take your computer(s) outside with you? I do! In fact, I get my best work done when I'm outside.

I have other programs that Linux simply has no equivalent for.

I can't comment on that because, in my experience, there's nothing I want/need that isn't available to me on Linux.

I can digitize for embroidery, and all the embroidery programs for years were designed for Windows. So one XP machine is necessary.

Have you tried running them under wine and/or some other app for running windows programs on Linux? I've been playing my favorite game, Roller Coaster Tycoon, on Linux for years. It's the ONLY windows software I use--and only on Linux.

Everything else in Linux is just fine. Abiword is close to the old Word Perfect, there's some good astronomy programs, and I have printing straightened out. Scan to PDF works fairly well. I can get to the ext. card in my phone and back up. Editing video is OK.

Great!

Editing music a little harder if I'm messing with MID files. Neither player in either Kubuntu or Mint wanted to play MID. I use those for ringtones.

When you say "neither player" worked, which player(s) are you referring to? I hadn't even thought about MIDI files in years, but after reading your post I installed a few apps [via Synaptic, after reading their descriptions] and had no issues whatsoever playing [some really ancient] MIDI files. Some of the apps required JACK Control to be running in order for the apps themselves to work, while others did not. TiMidity++ works on its own--and works great.

Thanks for the input.

You're welcome.

 

[Prinny]

How did I miss this epic topic.

I really want to chime in on GIMP. Between that and some raw image manipulators, I'm pretty set for what I do. Using a modified Lubuntu distro, peppermint OS. It's very speedy. I love it.

 

[Speed Daemon]

Best bet is probably get an older version of the distro. Then you can add newer versions of programs you would like. Those Buntus and offshoots are going to be bleeding edge with software, meaning they're going to offer the latest versions.

If it's a hardware issue, that may be the only way to go with Linux distros. I have an old Via C3 Mini-ITX system that refuses to die, and FreeBSD still installs on it, so that's what I use for it. It's easier than installing an old distro, then backporting (at least!) the kernel and glibc by hand to bug-fix.

 

[Speed Daemon]

As a Linux-only user, I can't even imagine having to put up with that. Really.

Indeed!

As a former IT director, I can't imagine getting away with shoveling so much money at a single vendor without at least playing the field and making a solid business case for such an expenditure. If it was any other department, I'd be fired and out on the street for spending so much money without doing due diligence and choosing the best tool for the job regardless of brand. Vendors do go out of business from time to time, and I've never seen any department aside from IT say "we'll soldier on as long as we can with an unsupported product, and make replacement plans at some unspecified time in the future" and get away with it! It's like computers are magical, mystical things that bookkeeping doesn't apply to.

OTOH as a shareholder, I've had no success in getting interlinking Boards of Directors to stop paying obscene amounts of money to top management. I'll bet that IT management will be forced to come back down to earth before corporate CEOs will.

Was the 1927 film "Metropolis" prophetic?