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2012 - year of Linux!

A.Nonymous said:
Many of our clients use free software for some uses. The main problem is the lack of support. A free product broke on us the other day. If there was support for the product, a quick phone call probably would've resulted in a solution. Instead, there was half a day of work and half a day of lost productivity for the business looking for the solution.
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Yup, free is often more costly than the most costly alternative. I would have hated to see our facility shut down because something free arrived, was installed, and IT was clueless.
 
I think the bottom line is that regardless of path chosen, you never get something for nothing and like linuxrich said, it's all about TOC - total cost of ownership.

For some that's choice A, for others, choice B, but you can't escape economics - you either pay now or pay later if all the factors are not weighed carefully.
 
Bob Maxey said:
Yup, free is often more costly than the most costly alternative. I would have hated to see our facility shut down because something free arrived, was installed, and IT was clueless.
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Most major Linux distros offer tech support. Yes, you have to pay for it, but I'm pretty sure it's a lot cheaper than microsoft. That's how Canonical is earning a profit with Ubuntu. The OS is free, but for large companies who use it there is the option of signing up for long term support.
 
Bob Maxey said:
We once started basic Windows training because we were starting to implement the latest version of Windows. It never ended. I can only guess if we switched everyone from Winders to Linux, we would need to continue Windows training as well as add Linux training.

Then there is application training. Everyone used Office components, and OO would likely require that we add OO training to Windows training and to the new Linux training and then there is support.

I disagree with you. I see it as a never ending training session growing more complex with every passing free alternative. Most companies need productive people today and they do not worry about the benefits a few years down the road.
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Yes, training is inevitable no matter what software you use. I won't argue there.

But I don't see the situation as growing more complex, provided you stick to Linux ;-) which has been around for years and isn't going anywhere. Also OO is so much like MS word I don't think it would be much of a learning curve.

And lastly it is indeed most companies short-sightedness that causes problems. They want something TODAY and aren't concerned with tomorrow. This is how companies become inefficient, unfocused and eventually DEAD.
 
baillou2 said:
Most major Linux distros offer tech support. Yes, you have to pay for it, but I'm pretty sure it's a lot cheaper than microsoft. That's how Canonical is earning a profit with Ubuntu. The OS is free, but for large companies who use it there is the option of signing up for long term support.
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So if an app doesn't work I can call up and they'll provide support for it?

That is the critical thing. I would lay odds that the vast majority of enterprise apps are NOT supported in an emulation mode like WINE or something similar. If I have to purchase a Windows license in order to run the software virtually, why would I not just install Windows on the physical box?
 
A.Nonymous said:
So if an app doesn't work I can call up and they'll provide support for it?

That is the critical thing. I would lay odds that the vast majority of enterprise apps are NOT supported in an emulation mode like WINE or something similar. If I have to purchase a Windows license in order to run the software virtually, why would I not just install Windows on the physical box?
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That is such an obvious and trivial example.

And if the required apps simply weren't a problem, then why not migrate to Linux?

I think that you are trying to prove something general from something specific and that cannot be done.

You have already heard from a professional working on a Linux migration for big banking in Europe.

That certainly qualifies as enterprise capability determined by people who aren't fools and have plenty to lose, and are representative of perhaps the most conservative business possible.

No one has asked you to abandon Windows, yet you seem to want to defend it as if any other choice is a mistake.

Linux is not a mistake.

If I am wrong, please clarify - what are you trying to prove?
 
Fine by moi.

I have no intention of letting any hijacking lead to a locked thread here.

Plenty of room to color outside the lines, this is the Lounge.

And this thread, like Linux, can take about anything that the Windows side throws at it.

2012 - the year that they noticed Linux is winning, thanks in no small part to Android. :)
 
From a personal perspective, all our day-to-day home machines have been Linux for several years now. As far as application support goes, the biggest issue(s) I've had to deal with have been office document compatibility/interoperability ones. Over the past year, with Libreoffice making quite noticeable improvements, what was an occasional annoyance has become a quite rare annoyance! Most of our issues have been of the kind that could be worked around and I can only vaguely remember one instance where I resorted to posting on forums for advise.
 
linuxrich said:
From a personal perspective, all our day-to-day home machines have been Linux for several years now. As far as application support goes, the biggest issue(s) I've had to deal with have been office document compatibility/interoperability ones. Over the past year, with Libreoffice making quite noticeable improvements, what was an occasional annoyance has become a quite rare annoyance! Most of our issues have been of the kind that could be worked around and I can only vaguely remember one instance where I resorted to posting on forums for advise.
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I have had to hit the forums a few times for some advice but even so my questions were generally answered in a matter of minutes and if it was something that I wasn't explaining right or forgot to mention the conversations lasted a bit longer while the guys and girls of the forum were trying to help me. I think that with in itself is the biggest problem people have with Linux is they really don't fully explain an issue or they leave out a crucial piece of information.

I Love my Linux. I do use Windows on an Occasion when I need to but all and all My Computer is usually fired up on Linux. Right now this very second I am typing this from Linux. It works. I don't see it being that much more in cost to switch over yes maybe some initial cost but in the long run I think you will save much more than you will spend on an MS system.
 
EarlyMon said:
That is such an obvious and trivial example.

And if the required apps simply weren't a problem, then why not migrate to Linux?

I think that you are trying to prove something general from something specific and that cannot be done.

You have already heard from a professional working on a Linux migration for big banking in Europe.

That certainly qualifies as enterprise capability determined by people who aren't fools and have plenty to lose, and are representative of perhaps the most conservative business possible.

No one has asked you to abandon Windows, yet you seem to want to defend it as if any other choice is a mistake.

Linux is not a mistake.

If I am wrong, please clarify - what are you trying to prove?
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I'm trying to prove that Linux is not the be all and end all of enterprise and home computing as some people here have implied if not stated directly. It's got a lot of flaws that make it unusable in the enterprise world or, at the very least, not the best option in the vast majority of cases. Lack of support, lack of app support, compatibility issues and training are just a few of them. I remember over 10 years ago when people were talking about how Linux was going to supplant MS in the desktop and enterprise world. This was back in the day when NT 4.0 was the ruler of the day. MS has had a 90%+ share in enterprise and the home for close to two decades now and it's not because they put out an inferior OS and everyone is just too stupid to realize it.
 
A.Nonymous said:
I'm trying to prove that Linux is not the be all and end all of enterprise and home computing as some people here have implied if not stated directly.
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Seriously, you need to give that a rest.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, this is a Linux thread, and if people want to believe that, that's ok - there's no need for anyone to prove anything.

Besides - for a certain population, Linux (just like Windows) is very much the be-all, end-all answer to home and enterprise computing.

You can prove all the cases where Windows is needed, and it won't disprove a single case where it wasn't.

So - let it go.

Even you migrated to Linux as the be-all, end-all operating system for your phone, after all.
 
I think it should be noted that a lot of linux distros offer support, often paid customer support with call centers and the like.
 
On the subject of forum support, from the opinions I've heard community support is very highly regarded even among hardened IT professionals. OK, so you may not have much/any 'comeback' but the advise/information you get is generally of a far higher quality than you'd get from a helpdesk jockey reading from a script...
 
Before the ascension of vendor help desks, most admins pooled their knowledge and asked questions in usenet's moderated comp.os hierarchy.

Entire operating system branches have been handled on moderated mailing lists, later committed to forums for reference.

The entire internet specifications for all protocols and their implementation notes were maintained at MIT's RTFM hierarchy.

Forums and groups will often get you answers more rapidly and more accurately than vendors, as this very forum proves.

The entire internet as well as Linux was accomplished with ad hoc support.
 
Look, I love trojans and blue screens of death, and hours on the phone to India as much as the next guy, but sometimes I get a wild hair up my ass and go with the stable opensource option instead. :p:D
 
EarlyMon said:
Seriously, you need to give that a rest.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, this is a Linux thread, and if people want to believe that, that's ok - there's no need for anyone to prove anything.

Besides - for a certain population, Linux (just like Windows) is very much the be-all, end-all answer to home and enterprise computing.

You can prove all the cases where Windows is needed, and it won't disprove a single case where it wasn't.

So - let it go.

Even you migrated to Linux as the be-all, end-all operating system for your phone, after all.
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Yet Linux has spent the past two decades with a single digit market share and in the home and virtually nothing in enterprise. You don't think there's a reason for that? Apple has been able to slowly chip away at Microsoft's dominance, but Linux has not. I'm not hating on Linux. I'm just saying there are reasons why it's never going to gain any market share on the desktop and it's not that Microsoft and other companies are conspiring to crush it.
 
I'm glad there is not an "ignore" button in the forum for when certain people try to inforce their fashist veiws one the rest of us. I could actually be typing this to my self. :(
 
A.Nonymous said:
a single digit market share and in the home and virtually nothing in enterprise.
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Market share in the home (aka. for personal use.) has gone through the roof over the past year or two. I don't really need to expand on that do I? As for the enterprise thing. Oh come on now. There are many huge 'enterprises' that have been using Linux almost exclusively for a number of years. Unless you don't count Google and Amazon and the like as being 'enterprise'.

BTW, and kind of appropriate for the title of the thread. Over the weekend, I got given my sister's Vista laptop (She's by and large an Apple user but has a Vista laptop round at our parent's house for when she visits there.) with instructions to wipe Windows off of it and install a Linux distro. Why? Malware. So, 2012 is the year of Linux on the laptop for my sister's weekend lappy.
 
linuxrich said:
Market share in the home (aka. for personal use.) has gone through the roof over the past year or two. I don't really need to expand on that do I? As for the enterprise thing. Oh come on now. There are many huge 'enterprises' that have been using Linux almost exclusively for a number of years. Unless you don't count Google and Amazon and the like as being 'enterprise'.
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Depending on where I look online I see Linux home market share around 1% in most places with some sites saying it is around 5%. I'd hardly call that "going through the roof". Google and Amazon use Linux to run most of their desktops? I can honestly say I was not aware of that.
 
A.Nonymous said:
Yet Linux has spent the past two decades with a single digit market share and in the home and virtually nothing in enterprise. You don't think there's a reason for that? Apple has been able to slowly chip away at Microsoft's dominance, but Linux has not. I'm not hating on Linux. I'm just saying there are reasons why it's never going to gain any market share on the desktop and it's not that Microsoft and other companies are conspiring to crush it.
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No, you were not saying that at all.

This is simply your retort with an approach change to my warning for you to stop trolling this thread.

No one is amused, and that was not clever.
 
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