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5 Gay Teens commit suicide within a 3 week time frame. Do you give a damn?

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travelingfool said:
If you are a Christian, then here's how you do it. You open up the book you claim to believe in and tell them what it says. That is, unless you (not you, but this hypothetical person we are discussing) don't really believe what the Bible says, which is that their sin will cause them to perish eternally without Jesus. In which case, this hypothetical person isn't a Christian, because he doesn't believe what the Bible says.
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None of my Christian friends believe the Bible's account of creation is true
Do YOU believe they will perish eternally without Jesus?
 
shadowninty said:
None of my Christian friends believe the Bible's account of creation is true
Do YOU believe they will perish eternally without Jesus?
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Christianity is defined in the Bible. The Bible says that God created the Earth. I am a Christian. Therefore I believe what the Bible says.

In your question, if you mean that although they believe that God created the Earth, but they do not believe it was in 6 days, then of course I don't believe that by this alone, they are forfeiting salvation. The time frame in the creation account is one of those instances that could possibly be taken literally, or as representing a larger span of time. Both interpretations are accepted within the pale or orthodoxy because there are many instances in the Bible where a smaller time frame represents a larger time frame.

Now if you told me that they believed that God didn't create the Earth at all, then yes, they are not Christians, because the Bible is clear that, regardless of how long it took, that God did create the Earth.
 
travelingfool said:
Christianity is defined in the Bible. The Bible says that God created the Earth. I am a Christian. Therefore I believe what the Bible says...
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OT, but as you brought it up; Do you pray to God for guidance? How do you expect him to guide you? What would you do if, in answer to your prayers, he revealed himself to you (whether in person, or a voice in your head), and he told you the guys who wrote the bible were way off, albeit 'well-meaning'? What if he said they missed the bit where he said that you should kill anybody with ginger hair; would you accept this as totally okay, because a voice in your head said so?
 
travelingfool said:
Christianity is defined in the Bible. The Bible says that God created the Earth. I am a Christian. Therefore I believe what the Bible says.

In your question, if you mean that although they believe that God created the Earth, but they do not believe it was in 6 days, then of course I don't believe that by this alone, they are forfeiting salvation. The time frame in the creation account is one of those instances that could possibly be taken literally, or as representing a larger span of time. Both interpretations are accepted within the pale or orthodoxy because there are many instances in the Bible where a smaller time frame represents a larger time frame.

Now if you told me that they believed that God didn't create the Earth at all, then yes, they are not Christians, because the Bible is clear that, regardless of how long it took, that God did create the Earth.
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None of them believe God actually created the Earth, they believe it was created the way most rock planets get created ;)
Are they Dooooooooooooommed?
 
mpw said:
OT, but as you brought it up; Do you pray to God for guidance? How do you expect him to guide you? What would you do if, in answer to your prayers, he revealed himself to you (whether in person, or a voice in your head), and he told you the guys who wrote the bible were way off, albeit 'well-meaning'? What if he said they missed the bit where he said that you should kill anybody with ginger hair; would you accept this as totally okay, because a voice in your head said so?
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You are attempting to start a discussion based on hypotheticals and hyperbole. I'll answer your question my way.

Yes, I pray to God. Think about what you just said. Let's follow it to its logical conclusion. If God is omnipotent as well as omniscient, and He is, and the Bible is a collection of His words, and it is, then if He allowed the "guys who wrote the bible" to be "way off," then he wouldn't be omniscient, would He?

Your scenario could never happen, because God would never contradict what He said in the Bible. Although I'm not accustomed to hearing voices in my head, if I DID hear a voice in my head that contradicted the Bible, I certainly wouldn't believe it.

Does that answer your condescending question?
 
travelingfool said:
...God would never contradict what He said in the Bible...
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Are you saying that God has said nothing at any point that would contradict what he said in parts of the Old Testament, Leviticus say?

Because I'm pretty sure he had some hard-core views on punishment of a bunch of stuff in there.

Scary; imagine how ****ed some of us would be if any of it were real!
 
shadowninty said:
None of them believe God actually created the Earth, they believe it was created the way most rock planets get created ;)
Are they Dooooooooooooommed?
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You answered your own question. Would you like me to keep repeating myself?

Christianity is defined in the Bible. The Bible says that God created the Earth (and all rock planets, smart mouth) Do you see what I am saying? You can only define Christianity from the Bible. Your friends can claim anything they wish, but if they do not believe the truths that are contained in the book that defines their religion, then they should be calling themselves something else. Anything else. It really doesn't matter. Pick a name, but it's not Christianity.

Let me guess. Your "Christian" friends also believe that all religions are equally valid, and that their Muslim and Buddhist friends will be in heaven too? Even though the Bible says in Acts 4:11-12: "This Jesus is the stone that was rejected by you, the builders, which has become the cornerstone. And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved. "?

If they do not believe even the foundational truths that the Bible teaches, then why would they want to take the name Christian? What does "Christian" mean to them? Is it just a geographical or cultural designation?
 
mpw said:
Are you saying that God has said nothing at any point that would contradict what he said in parts of the Old Testament, Leviticus say?

Because I'm pretty sure he had some hard-core views on punishment of a bunch of stuff in there.

Scary; imagine how ****ed some of us would be if any of it were real!
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Wait. So now you are nudging the conversation away from God whispering in my ear to kill people with ginger hair, to explaining to you the differences between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant? Do you seriously want to derail this thread into a massively lengthy exposition of Christian apologetics, the nuances of hermeneutics, exactly why God said what He said in Leviticus versus what he says in the New Testament, and exactly why it is not a contradiction?

I'm game, but it's going to get ugly. And long. Really long. With pages of scripture and explanations. Are you up for that? Is everyone else up for that? In a thread about gay teen suicide?

It's up to you guys.
 
travelingfool said:
You answered your own question. Would you like me to keep repeating myself?

Christianity is defined in the Bible. The Bible says that God created the Earth (and all rock planets, smart mouth) Do you see what I am saying? You can only define Christianity from the Bible. Your friends can claim anything they wish, but if they do not believe the truths that are contained in the book that defines their religion, then they should be calling themselves something else. Anything else. It really doesn't matter. Pick a name, but it's not Christianity.

Let me guess. Your "Christian" friends also believe that all religions are equally valid, and that their Muslim and Buddhist friends will be in heaven too? Even though the Bible says in Acts 4:11-12: "This Jesus is the stone that was rejected by you, the builders, which has become the cornerstone. And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved. "?

If they do not believe even the foundational truths that the Bible teaches, then why would they want to take the name Christian? What does "Christian" mean to them? Is it just a geographical or cultural designation?
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Eh they go to church the odd time
And yeah they believe most of the bible


Oh and I'll tell em they are fecked :x
 
shadowninty said:
Eh they go to church the odd time
And yeah they believe most of the bible


Oh and I'll tell em they are fecked :x
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Don't do that. Rather, tell them to honestly, prayerfully and thoroughly study the Bible until they decide whether or not it is true. If they come to the conclusion that it can be trusted, in its entirety, then it will strengthen their faith. If, however, they conclude that some of it isn't true, then it has been thoroughly discredited, and they should discard it and move on.

If some of it isn't true, then how can they trust any of it? There is no sense believing a book that you cannot trust. To follow a religion that is based on a sham is pure folly.
 
mpw said:
What if he said they missed the bit where he said that you should kill anybody with ginger hair; would you accept this as totally okay, because a voice in your head said so?
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yes and you would as well...... only a liar would say they wouldnt kill gingers if the voices in their head commanded them to...... everything you do.... EVERYTHING... is a result of the voices in your head..... some voices say go eat that cheeseburger, some say kill gingers
 
copestag said:
yes and you would as well...... only a liar would say they wouldnt kill gingers if the voices in their head commanded them to...... everything you do.... EVERYTHING... is a result of the voices in your head..... some voices say go eat that cheeseburger, some say kill gingers
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Lol, man I hope you're joking.
 
travelingfool said:
...Do you seriously want to derail this thread into a massively lengthy exposition of Christian apologetics, the nuances of hermeneutics, exactly why God said what He said in Leviticus versus what he says in the New Testament, and exactly why it is not a contradiction?...
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No, it's got to the point where I don't take people who believe in God too seriously; especially online.

copestag said:
yes and you would as well...
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So you think you know my mind better than me ais? and you're calling me a liar too? Please don't judge me by the same standards as yourself.

And it's really annoying when you type with a lisp BTW.
 
Familyguy1 said:
Just read an articles in Newsweek about bullying:
Phoebe Prince: Should School Bullying Be a Crime? - Newsweek
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I just read the article. I really struggle with this, because these victims of bullying really tug at my heart strings. The things they are subjected to are horrible, and something needs to be done. But 10 years in prison for antagonizing someone? That's really extreme. There has to be a balance somewhere. I don't presume to know the answer, but there has to be a way to crack down on this without the threat of 10 years in the slammer. The upside to a penalty like that is that it would probably be a huge deterrent to bullying, but there will always be rude kids who will do it anyways.

I will never forget my days in junior high and high school. I was bullied nearly every day for 7 years relentlessly. It was miserable, and I hated life, but never once did suicide even cross my mind as a solution. The things some of these kids in the article endured were vile and wrong, but no different than the things I went through (with the exception of the Tyler Clementi incident), yet suicide wasn't in the cards for me.

I feel weird even commenting on it though, because every kid has a different set of circumstances, life experiences, emotions, family situations, etc., and it feels like the entire world is against them, and who knows what they are truly going through deep down inside. One thing is for certain though, with the advent of the Internet, this bullying can become viral in no time. (Something that I didn't have to experience when I was growing up, since I'm in my forties)

I don't have the answer, but it sure tears me apart when I read about it.
 
mpw said:
No, it's got to the point where I don't take people who believe in God too seriously; especially online
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And especially when you encounter that rare believer who has a logical, coherent well-thought out answer for every one of your criticisms. Your off-handed dismissal is a wise move indeed.
 
pantlesspenguin said:
It is my understanding that there weren't words in those languages to express "modern" same-sex relationships. Even if there were, the bible is basically a deity inspired history book. One can't just read the bible and learn everything from it. You have to also take into account the politics, socal norms, etc of the periods in which the bible refers to and when the bible was translated (each and every time).

The bible is a great book. There is a lot to learn from it. But it should not be used to persecute people centuries later.
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Gays existed back then too...no different then now. Look at Rome. You're understanding of the bible is too limited to reference it.

The bible isn't used to persecute anyone. It's a living document and it's principles are valid no matter the state of mankind. It's designed as a moral straight edge. Since people like to bend societies morals. It's extremely difficult to argue with the bibles principles. It's easier to discredit it...and that's what society is doing.
 
As a gay person myself I find some of the responses in this thread disturbing, hurtful and quite shocking, as a moderator I find it amazing that the main topic has been turned around into a discussion of the bible now. :rolleyes:
So being that we are getting no where (bringing the bible back into this is proof of that and giving scripture) I will close now this thread.

TS
 
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