Root A little scared now that I've had problems with root

[Tempusfugit]

The cost of a handful of people returning phones that they've screwed up is noise and isn't going to have any effect on prices. What it DOES affect is that it encourages the carriers to demand better security from companies like HTC, Motorola, and Samsung. We're already hearing that HTC - who has traditionally taken a "don't care" attitude toward rooting - may start locking new phones down Moto style with an encrypted bootloader.

This is why people who know what they're doing with this stuff have a right to be outraged. Forget the "morality" aspect ... other people's morals are none of my business. But when failure to take personal responsibility can impact my freedom, that's cause to speak up.

Ya.. rumors all over the place about locking up phones and tracking rooters all because a few people want to play but can't pay.

 

[kb58]

The cost of a handful of people returning phones that they've screwed up is noise...

Yes, in a literal sense, but not in the big picture. It's like seeing a few small leaks in a dam and saying, "that's nothing compared to what it's holding back." True, but little leaks can turn into a really big problem if ignored. Best to jam some cement in the little bastards (the leaks... for now) to head off a bigger problem.

 

[mdunn1066]

OP, Try this method : HTC Inspire Hack Kit - xda-developers

The included instructions are extremely easy to follow and it worked like a charm for me. Read through everything, twice, before you begin. There are videos here: [Video Tutorial] Unleashing your Inspire 4G [PermaRoot, SIM Unlock, S-Off, Sound Fix] - xda-developers

Videos are slightly out of date as the developer of the hack kit has updated and changed things a little bit, but for the most part is the same. The video will give you easy step by step instructions, just make note of where things change in the new version. (It is one of the last few steps i think)

 

[Nakhon7]

Kind of shocked at some the replies in this thread... correct me if I am wrong, but would most people root if ATT didn't lock everything down so much? Imagine if your TV manufacturer restricted you to certain channels, or your internet provider only let you buy a Dell with the inability to install new software. It's ridiculous that I should have to go through the rooting process just to be able to do what I want with my phone that I paid for. I spent 4 years in Asia, and there you bought any phone you wanted wherever you wanted, independent of carrier, and then grabbed a SIM card for $10. No strings attached, no contracts, and I never paid more than $10-15 a month for calling, text, and Internet.

The problem is not InspireR6 bricking a phone, the problem is the American carriers and the totally screwed up system. I don't want to root my phone, but I will so I can get back the functionality that should have been mine in the first place. And if I brick it and ATT pays for it, that is their own fault for telling me what I can and can't do with my device (which I am paying them quite a lot for, btw).

 

[Ferrari353]

So if you buy a diy kit where you have to build like a model car or something, and you screw it up out of inexperience, are you gonna return it and say its defective?

 

[greg4android]

This ain't ASIA, and

Welcome to the USA and the Capitalist Greedy Pigs of AT&T

There are others carriers, no one's making you stay with AT&T (and bricking your phone during a root, then returning it is just WRONG)

Kind of shocked at some the replies in this thread... correct me if I am wrong, but would most people root if ATT didn't lock everything down so much? Imagine if your TV manufacturer restricted you to certain channels, or your internet provider only let you buy a Dell with the inability to install new software. It's ridiculous that I should have to go through the rooting process just to be able to do what I want with my phone that I paid for. I spent 4 years in Asia, and there you bought any phone you wanted wherever you wanted, independent of carrier, and then grabbed a SIM card for $10. No strings attached, no contracts, and I never paid more than $10-15 a month for calling, text, and Internet.

The problem is not InspireR6 bricking a phone, the problem is the American carriers and the totally screwed up system. I don't want to root my phone, but I will so I can get back the functionality that should have been mine in the first place. And if I brick it and ATT pays for it, that is their own fault for telling me what I can and can't do with my device (which I am paying them quite a lot for, btw).

 

[Nakhon7]

So if you buy a diy kit where you have to build like a model car or something, and you screw it up out of inexperience, are you gonna return it and say its defective?

Not quite the same. In that case no, because the seller (Wal-Mart, for example) hasn't messed with the original product. The product is fully functional, so any mistakes I make are my own.

This ain't ASIA, and
Welcome to the USA and the Capitalist Greedy Pigs of AT&T
There are others carriers, no one's making you stay with AT&T (and bricking your phone during a root, then returning it is just WRONG)

Haha yes, I'm still not over being back with the Greedy Pigs of AT&T The point is that ATT disables phones to make more money. We are paying full price for these phones (over the contract period) and should be getting full functionality. Believe me, I don't want to go through the trouble of rooting. But I am also not going to pay $6oo over 2 years for a crippled device. The problem begins with ATT. When some of you guys excuse that behavior (out of excellent and respectable motives), you encourage more of it. No other system in America works this way. You don't buy a subsidized, crippled TV from your cable carrier, or a crippled computer from your ISP. The problem is not that some people mess up their phones rooting them, the problem is that anyone should have to root in the first place.

On a related note, the last phone I bought from ATT was a Sony c905. It has wifi and GPS capabilities, but ATT disabled those. They messed up a perfectly good product - which I paid good money for - simply so I couldn't use wifi and would be pressured to buy a higher-priced phone with a data plan. People in the US need to wake up and realize what an awful deal they are getting, and start attacking the carriers instead of people who simply want to use their devices the way they were meant to be used.

 

[2manyPHONES]

Not quite the same. In that case no, because the seller (Wal-Mart, for example) hasn't messed with the original product. The product is fully functional, so any mistakes I make are my own.


...

IMO the phones sold by carriers are fully functional for the average user. They dont care about having access to their phone they way some people who root them do. They dont want to flash roms or change anything. They just want to turn the phone on and use it how it was sold to them. The OP took a functional phone and made it non functional and returned it calling it defective. The only defect was his inexperience in rooting and messing up that phone. So why should ATT pay for HIS mistake and give him a new phone? (i know whats done is done he already returned it etc)

 

[Kopsis]

The problem is not InspireR6 bricking a phone, the problem is the American carriers and the totally screwed up system. I don't want to root my phone, but I will so I can get back the functionality that should have been mine in the first place. And if I brick it and ATT pays for it, that is their own fault for telling me what I can and can't do with my device (which I am paying them quite a lot for, btw).

Ah yes, welcome to the United States of Entitlement. The functionality that "should have been yours" is the functionality that the carrier elected to provide, advertised, and you agreed to purchase. AT&T doesn't make it a big secret that they've installed additional software that you can't remove. Nor should it come as a big surprise to anyone that the device doesn't "offer" a way to sideload or run apps that need root privileges. I'll concede that the whole HSUPA thing was wrong -- AT&T should have disclosed that limitation day one.

Now, I'm not in favor of the restrictions that they put on handsets, but the carrier is in business to make as big a profit as possible (and I actually respect that) so I understand why they do it. I'm also not against rooting to try to remove those restrictions -- quite the opposite. But, if you buy the device knowing you're going to do something slightly risky (rooting) that voids the warranty, I (and others) believe you should take personal responsibility for the outcome. Are you entitled to "try" to root your device? Sure, you paid for it (though some would argue that if you bought subsidized then you haven't paid for it yet). And as the old saying goes, if it breaks in two in the process, you're also entitled to keep both parts

 

[greg4android]

RED POINT... I agree. The average user (not sure what percentage of the people who buy the Inspire that actually is) just wants a phone that works great, and has great features. Phone calls, Internet, GPS.....
They just want to use the phone as it was designed. the average user doesn't "tinker" with their phones, they dont even know what "root" or "ROM" is....So basically, how can you call a phone that does the functions it's advertised as / as "crippled"???
( OK OK, I realize that ATT screwed up disabling the HSPA+ function, and advertised this phone as a "4G" phone......that was WRONG on their part....but look at the people who are still on EDGE, and plain 'ole 3G....they would have never known anyway.....not that it was still right).

GREEN POINT...Returning product that was NOT defective when you received it......then returning it because of some user-caused problem (such as flashing a BIOS, rooting, or changing the "ROM") is WRONG!. Its just not ethical! Let me say that I worked in retail for MANY years, and people bring back computers with failed BIOS updates, bricked hard drives and phones because they modified the rom.... While these folks make up a variety of reasons for why they are bringing the product back for a refund or exchange, its not always so obvious to the clerk who takes it back...Later, the technician who checks out the product, see's what happened. Unfortunately, the time and labor $'s put into this process is unnecessary, and in many cases a manufacturer WILL NOT take back a product that been altered in this way. A store can submit a claim, but the manufacturer can deny the claim once they receive it (if a return is the result of a bad bios update, or "root/rom" on a phone....In the end process, the RETAILER usually eats the cost of the product they returned in this case beacuse the customer flat out lied about the reason they were returning the product in the first place (the product really wasn't defective--a customer initiated process caused the problem)....In the ultimate end the retailer raises the prices of similar products to compensate for the lost time and wages spent on the process, and if a manufacturer claim was rejected, they raise prices to compensate for the loss.
SO...returning a phone that you screwed up/bricked because you were "rooting" or "flashing custom roms", **IS** a big deal, and it costs everyone in the end...........................

IMO the phones sold by carriers are fully functional for the average user. They dont care about having access to their phone they way some people who root them do. They dont want to flash roms or change anything. They just want to turn the phone on and use it how it was sold to them. The OP took a functional phone and made it non functional and returned it calling it defective. The only defect was his inexperience in rooting and messing up that phone. So why should ATT pay for HIS mistake and give him a new phone? (i know whats done is done he already returned it etc)

 

[Nakhon7]

Let me say that I worked in retail for MANY years, and people bring back computers with failed BIOS updates, bricked hard drives... because they modified the rom.

I completely agree with you in this case. People should assume responsibility when they buy a device that functions as it was made to and then mess it up. The difference here, at least in my eyes, is that functionality has been taken away. What about the money HTC invested in making the Inspire as great as it could be? Surely ATT's bloatware, disabling features, etc. hurts HTC just as much as it hurts the end user, right? ATT is not some innocent victim. They've hurt both users and manufacturers in a bid to get a little more money - and the other major US carriers do similar things. No sympathy here.

On the other hand, if ATT sold phones that didn't need to be rooted to get back full functionality, and people rooted them for other reasons and bricked them, returning the phone would be wrong. Similarly, I am sympathetic to ATT charging users more for tethering in some cases.

That said, I will be rooting my phone this weekend, and will be very careful. I don't want some tech to have to deal with my mistake, and I don't want to mess up a brand new device.

 

[greg4android]

The point applies to ANY carrier and ANY phone, not specifically AT&T.

I believe AT&T is sneaky as well as greedy, and will milk customers for every penny they can (but look at Verizon as well, they do too). AT&T a victim? No way.

Personally, I hate AT&T with a passion, but most of the phones in this small town are AT&T. We're still on freaking EDGE!!!

People complain about Bloatware on AT&T..... Verizon has it too (I just was playing with a Thunderbolt at BestBuy).

I do understand in a way why people want to root and customize.

BUT, its a risk you take when you decide to do this. If you brick your phone or something messes up do to the process, then that's user error,
plain and simple, and users who do this shouldn't expect ANY carrier to trade their phone out due to pure ignorance of what they did.

I completely agree with you in this case. People should assume responsibility when they buy a device that functions as it was made to and then mess it up. The difference here, at least in my eyes, is that functionality has been taken away. What about the money HTC invested in making the Inspire as great as it could be? Surely ATT's bloatware, disabling features, etc. hurts HTC just as much as it hurts the end user, right? ATT is not some innocent victim. They've hurt both users and manufacturers in a bid to get a little more money - and the other major US carriers do similar things. No sympathy here.

On the other hand, if ATT sold phones that didn't need to be rooted to get back full functionality, and people rooted them for other reasons and bricked them, returning the phone would be wrong. Similarly, I am sympathetic to ATT charging users more for tethering in some cases.

That said, I will be rooting my phone this weekend, and will be very careful. I don't want some tech to have to deal with my mistake, and I don't want to mess up a brand new device.

 

[ultradroid]

nakhon7 and greg4android - I am in *total* agreement with the excellent way you two articulated the (to me) obvious point that "If you broke it, you fix it". Your posts express the facts much better than I can, and this is something that NEEDS to be said.

Thanks much!

-Mike

 

[Nakhon7]

@greg4android: I see your point, and I definitely respect your view, though I disagree with it. My hope is that in a few years we won't need to have these kinds of discussions, because the carriers will no longer be the primary sellers. Hopefully the growing prepaid market will cause people to stop and think about how dysfunctional the current system really is, and we will be able to get our Inspire pure, clean, and virgin-like from HTC, and separate from our service with ATT (or not with them, more likely ).

 

[Ferrari353]

@greg4android: I see your point, and I definitely respect your view, though I disagree with it. My hope is that in a few years we won't need to have these kinds of discussions, because the carriers will no longer be the primary sellers. Hopefully the growing prepaid market will cause people to stop and think about how dysfunctional the current system really is, and we will be able to get our Inspire pure, clean, and virgin-like from HTC, and separate from our service with ATT (or not with them, more likely ).

I'd rather not spend $500+ on a phone...

 

[Kopsis]

Data charges for the best prepaid plans are more than double what you get on contract (Virgin and TMo were at about $20/GiB last time I checked). Couple that with the lack of phone subsidy and it's a really bad deal. I see no reason why pre-paid would ever be cheaper than contract service (assuming the same level of service and features) since the overhead costs per customer (sales and service) come out much lower for the contract period.

For the smartphone market, the current system isn't dysfunctional at all. The average consumer loves it. What percentage of people who bought their Inspire 4G for $79 (or less) actually care that there's an AT&T Navigator icon that they'll never use? Or that they can't easily sideload the latest Swype beta? These are the people who, if there was a "root me" app on the phone, would run it (clicking through 10 pages of warnings) and then promptly accidentally delete their dialer and then go bitch up a storm at their AT&T store because the phone was a piece of crap that doesn't work right.

I'd love to live in a world where products were designed for the 95th percentile instead of the 5th percentile, but that just isn't going to happen. And the argument that HTC didn't dumb the phone down, so AT&T shouldn't either doesn't hold water because when the phone doesn't work, it's AT&T not HTC that has to support it. If HTC actually had to provide the same level of handset support as the carriers do, you can bet their phones would be locked down tighter than Fort Knox.

This is why I ask people to be responsible about rooting. Whether you believe that it's a fortunate hack, or a fundamental human right, the carrier believes the ability to root is a "defect". And like all defects, they'll fix it if the cost of leaving it in becomes higher than the cost of taking it out. Returning soft-bricked phones for replacement (that could have been fully recovered with just a little bit of effort) pushes that equation the wrong way and hurts all of us regardless of your philosophy.