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An issue destorying our country.

infil said:
Speaking as a former addict, I can say some drugs do have numerous benefits.
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You know.. I would just like to thank you because after reading your post you never once blamed the drugs themselves. I think part of the reason people look at poorly upon drugs as they do is because people blame the drugs... Just like alcohol... "well I was drunk thats why I did it!" or "well the drugs were addictive, so I lost control!"

Marijuana is one that I do strongly support legalization of. I do not use it, nor any other substances anymore. My father, a high level quadroplegic, benefitted greatly from its use to calm muscle spasms, and increase his appetite to the point that he was able to actually eat and keep food down. Also for general pain management, and countless other benefits.
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I would like for *all* drugs to have the potential for experimentation at least.. but, yes I agree with the legalization of Marijuana especially for medicinal purposes.. but, I honestly don't think it should be limited to that.

On the same token, substances like PCP, Meth, Cocaine etc are, IMO not productive enough to outweigh the addictive qualities and negative effects.
PCP is a big one for a post I saw above regarding unstoppable guys on cops, believe me, from first hand experience you dont feel crap on PCP as far as pain, and not much will slow you down. I shattered most of the bones in my right hand on that crap and kept on going in the fight I was involved in, and it took 5 cops to get me down to the point where they could cuff me. I was 14 years old at the time, and weighed all of 100lb soaking wet. Nasty stuff.
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While that is scary and I do think there is some room to change from my argument of total legalization... I really have no desire to nitpick the details.

I will say that it would be nice if the painkilling properties of that could be put to medical uses...
Meth is the same way, just not as potent. Plus i've dumped around $10,000 into my mouth for implants, root canals, bridges etc to repair the damage that wonder drug did.
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That.. is scary... My mom has had enough dental work done to last a life time (not drug related) and I've seen her in horrible pain after it... I can't imagine how bad that must have sucked.. I
I dont have any excuses, I did it to myself. I am eternally grateful to the individuals who essentially forced me to get cleaned up when I woudl have none of it.
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I do like that you admit responsibility. Although I must disagree with one statement you made.. No one can "force" you to clean up.. my friend will be the first to admit even things that are not addictive like Marijuana he would not quit just because his parents told him to.. Find a new place to hide it despite being patted down when he walked into his house.. his car searched ect ect..
Back to the topic at hand, I think that medical testing and research should absolutely be done into possibly modified forms of some narcotics, which can improve quality of life for a great number of people. Quadroplegia, Paraplegia, Amputees, cancer victims, and other individuals who do suffer from real conditions such as lack of appetite, chronic pain, phantom pain, extreme insomnia etc, can benefit, as im sure numerous others can.
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I think that it should be allowed on all narcotics.. I think they should be modified as needed to suit different situations.
Bathtub varieties of some of these drugs do absolutely need to be shut down, however targeting street level dealers will never accomplish that, and there is no effective means to get these dangerous, sometimes fatal substances off our streets. Throwing money at the problem obviously hasnt done anything, nor has incarceration. While there is money to be made, someone will be there to make it.
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Indeed... I do agree we don't need rednecks cooking things up in the back yard..

One of my main arguments is there are so many things close to meth that are already legal..

Now.. I will say we can argue over whether or not dextro amphetamine is over per scribed or not.
 
I find it interesting for my situation though:

I rarely touch alcohol, only on holidays etc.....but I will smoke Cannabis. So i do something that is "illegal", yet also do not do something that causes a lot of deaths.
 
Marijuana was deemed illegal in the Senate after a debate that lasted about 90 seconds. It passed in the house in a few more minutes than that. Here's a synopsis of the "debate":

-Marihuana, what's that?
-Some Narcotic that the Mexicans use.
-OK, that shouldn't be legal.
 
Snow, I agree that no one can be helped unless they want the help 100%.

At the time, I was definately at my low, I had 3 od's within a 5 week period and was being given 50/50 on surviving another. They said youth was on my side( i was 14), but alot of the damage had already been done.

How can I blame the drugs? I was making the choice to put them into my body. They did what they were supposed to, if I acted like a jackass(usually did) that was my fault. Im definitely not proud of what i did, but i wouldn't trade it for anything.

The gentleman I speak of who did pull me out of the pits kicking and screaming came out to my house in colorado and basically did what my dad couldn't due to being confined to a wheelchair. Billy would get me up, make sure I was at school and stayed there all day, made sure I got home etc, He didn't so much force me to clean up, as he kept the negative lifestyle and influences away from me, and me away from them.
 
aminaked said:
Marijuana was deemed illegal in the Senate after a debate that lasted about 90 seconds. It passed in the house in a few more minutes than that. Here's a synopsis of the "debate":

-Marihuana, what's that?
-Some Narcotic that the Mexicans use.
-OK, that shouldn't be legal.
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Sadly its not going to go much from there anyway, Once the Medical Cannabis movement can actually function as an entitiy, then something would be happening....but until then...

infil said:
Snow, I agree that no one can be helped unless they want the help 100%.

At the time, I was definately at my low, I had 3 od's within a 5 week period and was being given 50/50 on surviving another. They said youth was on my side( i was 14), but alot of the damage had already been done.

How can I blame the drugs? I was making the choice to put them into my body. They did what they were supposed to, if I acted like a jackass(usually did) that was my fault. Im definitely not proud of what i did, but i wouldn't trade it for anything.

The gentleman I speak of who did pull me out of the pits kicking and screaming came out to my house in colorado and basically did what my dad couldn't due to being confined to a wheelchair. Billy would get me up, make sure I was at school and stayed there all day, made sure I got home etc, He didn't so much force me to clean up, as he kept the negative lifestyle and influences away from me, and me away from them.
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Was he a relative, family friend. Thats tough man, very tough, glad you got through it, I knew people that didnt get through it and..well...
 
Familyguy1 said:
I find it interesting for my situation though:

I rarely touch alcohol, only on holidays etc.....but I will smoke Cannabis. So i do something that is "illegal", yet also do not do something that causes a lot of deaths.
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actually NO deaths. There is not one instance of death from a marijuanna overdose in all of recorded history. If anyone gets a chance, read up on how it became illegal in the first place. As the poster mentioned above, it's a very racist and unbeleivable story. They asked the surgeon general at the time to do an extensive report on the effects of marijuanna.. He stated that it had no long term side effects and actually had many medicinal uses. They completely ignored him, citing it as a mind altering drug that cause extreme outbursts of violence and insanity, etc. All supported by an extensive ad campaign to brainwash the general public... asssss usual :D
 
tommy_ed said:
actually NO deaths. There is not one instance of death from a marijuanna overdose in all of recorded history. If anyone gets a chance, read up on how it became illegal in the first place. As the poster mentioned above, it's a very racist and unbeleivable story. They asked the surgeon general at the time to do an extensive report on the effects of marijuanna.. He stated that it had no long term side effects and actually had many medicinal uses. They completely ignored him, citing it as a mind altering drug that cause extreme outbursts of violence and insanity, etc. All supported by an extensive ad campaign to brainwash the general public... asssss usual :D
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You read wrong my man. I was talking about alcohol with deaths. I know you cant kill yourself one a plant from nature.
 
Im back and forth on the issue myself. I think pot should be legal across the board. Almost everything "bad" about pot is propaganda. At the same time I know legalizing pot will not end all wars and solve all of our problems, but feel it would have a very harmless effect on society. The hardcore drugs, well, ofcourse the easiest way to get rid of the cartels and violent dealers etc is with legalization, but WOW these drugs will screw you up! In the end, back in high school I heard of people huffing freon from there home A/C systems. I personally thought this idea was dumb as hell and would never do it. Obviously huffing freon can kill you in an instant, but should freon be illegal because certain numbers of our society are dumb enough to huff it? The answer is no. Certain people might shoot heroin if they could buy it from there local 7/11, but im not one of them.
 
infil said:
Snow, I agree that no one can be helped unless they want the help 100%.

At the time, I was definately at my low, I had 3 od's within a 5 week period and was being given 50/50 on surviving another. They said youth was on my side( i was 14), but alot of the damage had already been done.

How can I blame the drugs? I was making the choice to put them into my body. They did what they were supposed to, if I acted like a jackass(usually did) that was my fault. Im definitely not proud of what i did, but i wouldn't trade it for anything.

The gentleman I speak of who did pull me out of the pits kicking and screaming came out to my house in colorado and basically did what my dad couldn't due to being confined to a wheelchair. Billy would get me up, make sure I was at school and stayed there all day, made sure I got home etc, He didn't so much force me to clean up, as he kept the negative lifestyle and influences away from me, and me away from them.
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That will work for some people.. and well to be honest.. just seperating people from bad influences may be enough sometimes..

However, there are also some people who will fight any good influence till they die.. My friend is the first to admit "you are an addict until you die" and he said something I am curious to know if you can relate to.. He said that until you take your last breath, you have not "recovered" because, you can always, always go back and the temptation will be there.. He himself actually goes through "cycles" it seems..
 
byteware said:
You realize that it's the most widely used because it IS legal.
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The difference between alcohol and other drugs is it was *SO* widely used that we couldn't keep it illegal.. well.. not that we are doing a spectacular job with anything else atm.
 
byteware said:
hmm?? I'm fairly certain that there are plenty of plants in nature that you could use to kill yourself...
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tommy_ed said:
that i did :) my bad!

but yes, there are plenty of plants in nature that can kill you
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True, there are also plants that can help in certain ways as well. Cannabis is not for everybody, certain people like it certain people dont, for some people in does not help with something, but in others in can help immensely, as in with MS and a lot of terminal diseases. My point is that Cannabis is a plant that is immensely helpful to a lot of people. Sadly the medical benefits of it are downplayed by the more knee-jerk reaction that "Oh No its a drug, its BADD!"
 
Familyguy1 said:
True, there are also plants that can help in certain ways as well. Cannabis is not for everybody, certain people like it certain people dont, for some people in does not help with something, but in others in can help immensely, as in with MS and a lot of terminal diseases. My point is that Cannabis is a plant that is immensely helpful to a lot of people. Sadly the medical benefits of it are downplayed by the more knee-jerk reaction that "Oh No its a drug, its BADD!"
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That wasn't the point of either of those posts you quoted.

Those posts were in response to a statement that stated that natural plants can't kill you.

It wasn't about whether Pot was good or bad.
 
My only issue with pot as a recreational, readily available drug is that, it would be used much like alcohol is, especially by the young. Unlike Alcohol, however, detecting people under the influence of marijuana is much more difficult (and not something that can be done instantaneously, on site. Since the effects of marijuana in many ways mimic some of the effects of alcohol (impaired judgment & slowed reaction times), I could easily picture an increase in traffic accidents and fatalities caused by people under the influence of pot. Unlike Alcohol, Cops would not have an effective measure to combat it.
 
Familyguy1 said:
Sadly its not going to go much from there anyway, Once the Medical Cannabis movement can actually function as an entitiy, then something would be happening....but until then...



Was he a relative, family friend. Thats tough man, very tough, glad you got through it, I knew people that didnt get through it and..well...
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You'll probably find this amusing, but he was a guy i met playing MPBT Solaris and Airwarrior on aol back in the day. One of the other founding members of TWB, he recently passed away from alcoholism of all things :/

One thing i will say to anyone who has anything bad to say about meeting people online hehe. Some of the best people in my life, and definatley the most consistent, were met online, many via that group lol.

My attorney is in the group, my sons god father, and numerous members of my wedding party lol. We've been a solid group for going on 17 years lol, they are as much a part of my family as are those i share blood with. :p
 
Snow_Fox said:
That will work for some people.. and well to be honest.. just seperating people from bad influences may be enough sometimes..

However, there are also some people who will fight any good influence till they die.. My friend is the first to admit "you are an addict until you die" and he said something I am curious to know if you can relate to.. He said that until you take your last breath, you have not "recovered" because, you can always, always go back and the temptation will be there.. He himself actually goes through "cycles" it seems..
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An addict, alcoholic is not someone who is cured per se. IMHO everyone has their triggers. I was pretty easily influenced by the people around me considering the situation I was in at the time, (extremely abusive mother & her boyfriends, she was a heavy coke user) I left her place to go to my father, who was a high level quadroplegic, at 11 years old so I basically went from a beaten, abused kid to the primary caretaker for someone who essentially needed round the clock care. Never had a real stable parental figure around who was both interested in my best interest and able to provide the needs I had beyond the basics(clothing, food, shelter etc).
I was coking when i got to my fathers, as well as smoking and drinking from time to time, but once I got out to him, acid and meth started to take over as both were much easier to get my hands on at that age. Pot was also easily accessible.

Getting out of that entire situation for me allowed me to get back on my feet as it were and get together the tools i needed to get the upper hand on my disease. I can drink like any normal person can, i can drink and beer and be fine or i can put down a bottle of tequila, I dont have the compelling, overwhelming need to continue drinking into oblivion.

I choose, very directly to not play around with pot, even though it is accessible to me, I dont want that part of my life to rear its ugly head, and that is classic addict thinking.

One joint wont kill me. One line wont kill me, One hit wont kill me etc etc etc.

I know what I am capable of if I head down that road, and that road will always be there for me. I have to make that choice for myself if I want to go there. I know what the cost will be. At best ill come out alone and alive. Worst case, ill do something that will cost other people their lives and i'd have to live with that guilt for the rest of my days.

My father was put into his wheelchair via alcoholism, he passed out behind the wheel. I never pitied him for that, he suffered the consequences of his actions, which I do feel is just. However he also brought that suffering on countless other people, not the least of which was me. I have been told, ad nauseum, how badly I was cheated of a childhood, but honestly I dont feel that way. I grew up alot faster than most, I was out of high school by my freshman year due to countless trips between rehabs and that crap, I ended up getting my GED at 16 and taking care of my dad till I just up and left at 18 to try to claim my own life, which was viewed harshly by everyone but me it would seem...that was taken as a selfish act :) As were most of the things I did to forge my way in the world.

Since I moved out ive pretty much lived with that spectre of the addictions and the ease of access of going back to that lifestyle. Like I said it would be very easy to get lost in a drug induced coma of an existence until my heart stopped, however I think my son and wife deserve something better :D
 
I agree that marijuana should be legalised, and maybe Ecstasy as well. But the harder drugs need to stay illegal.

I'm another person that has never done any illegal drug. But I would probably at least try MJ if it were legalised.
 
dark4181 said:
I agree that marijuana should be legalised, and maybe Ecstasy as well. But the harder drugs need to stay illegal.

I'm another person that has never done any illegal drug. But I would probably at least try MJ if it were legalised.
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you actually do any research on how many deaths via accidental od are attributed directly to mdma/extacy?
 
dark4181 said:
I agree that marijuana should be legalised, and maybe Ecstasy as well. But the harder drugs need to stay illegal.

I'm another person that has never done any illegal drug. But I would probably at least try MJ if it were legalised.
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I'm assuming you're young?
 
I live in CA, and prop 19 is coming up for a vote this election cycle which will basically legalize MJ.

I used it for about a year in high school and then promptly quit. That was a decade ago and i can't help but look back and see the failed attempt to keep it away from people, kids especially.

I'm absolutely voting in favor of prop19 and actually considering starting my own farm. I'm an accounting professional but i see the waste and ill affects of letting cartels control a substance instead of letting the state and people in that state benefit from it. Why should we let mexico reap illegal profit from our citizens? It's nonsense.

also to the kid above... please don't take X... please please please. The effects of the drug are largely permanent and destroy the seratonin receptors in your brain.
 
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