Andriod UI - what are they thinking?

[UIexpert]

I don't need to try another device! Google needs to hire a couple of UI people to work together with the coders, that's all. "Download an app" shouldn't be the answer for every problem! Why can't you just say "yes you are right, it is not well designed, lets hope they fix it next time" ??? If you are offering me to download an app then you agree that the original dialer is not well designed, right? So why not just say so?

added - no, really - why can't the OS come with a clean, working, fully loaded, well designed dialer? It's a PHONE for crying out loud! Do I need to d/l an App for that too?

I'm already feeling my phone slowing down from all the stuff I added onto it. You don't wish that you could use the OS without having to install tons of stuff on it? It's almost like you WANT it to come without anything on it so you can spend days on days reading about and download apps and arguing which one is better and then changing them three times a month.... god, its a phone, shouldn't the dialer be well designed????

 

[EarlyMon]

I don't need to try another device! Google needs to hire a couple of UI people to work together with the coders, that's all. "Download an app" shouldn't be the answer for every problem! Why can't you just say "yes you are right, it is not well designed, lets hope they fix it next time" ??? If you are offering me to download an app then you agree that the original dialer is not well designed, right? So why not just say so?

Because you're not right, Google is specializing in an operating system and not showing favorites among the aftermarket possibilities for their plain-vanilla phone.

This original dialer of which you speak, I've never had on my phone.

We've had this discussion.

You're using the phone and interface that's in the incredibly small percentage of the market, the rest of us are not, and you're back to complaining that you didn't get the slick interfaces out of the box.

We don't sit around waiting for someone to fix something.

In the time you took to wish we'd had, you could've already started deciding on alternatives that are right for you.

And maybe found one. And maybe you'd have been happy.

You've gone back to your original premise and you're either stubborn or trolling.

And I get to say that when others don't get to, because I'm at a decision point, right now.

This isn't the agree-with-UIexpert forum or agree with me forum.

This is where you ask who to contact at Google, what do they offer, how do I do this, this-is-what-I-want-where-do-I-get-it forum.

 

[Bnice]

So because its not to your liking they should redesign the dialer? We can all find something we don't like with any phone out on the market,many have reached out to assist you in making your experience to android better. I only suggest you try another device because the android experience is different from each manufacture.

 

[UIexpert]

Because you're not right, Google is specializing in an operating system and not showing favorites among the aftermarket possibilities for their plain-vanilla phone.

EarlyMon..... you said yourself that my phone is "coveted" because it's not bloated with manufacturers add-ons, skins, themes etc, so it's extra lean and fast.

So what would be so bad if the original "out of the box" android dialer would be fully functional and well designed? Wouldn't it save resources from the "bloated" versions?

I'm really not going back here... OK, so it shouldn't come with all the functions installed but for god's sake, it already has a dialer, so can't they make it well designed?

 

[UIexpert]

So because its not to your liking they should redesign the dialer?

It's not that it's not to my liking. It has zero UI design. Nada. Zero effort was put into its ease of use.

And by the way... this is typical Google.... Look at Wave and Buzz and tons of these other services. They never hit the mark. Design was always their weak point. Facebook's value is already higher than Googles... it's just sad, really.

 

[EarlyMon]

You may be right.

Most of us have never seen it.

Some people will covet it, some will run from it.

It's been said that your phone was coveted by those that liked that sort of interface - and by those wanting the Google-supported plain vanilla Android.

Personally, I found the UI details much more important to me, so I choose a phone that suited me, out of the box, when I could've had a Nexus One.

Some Nexus One owners largely consider my phone useless eye candy.

There's a selection in Android because the world would be a boring place otherwise.

You do know - and this has been suggested - that you could design your own stuff to overcome what's wrong with that phone and probably make a bundle if you're as good as you claim.

No sarcasm, fact.

We even have a sub-forum where you can hang with budding developers.

 

[UIexpert]

I would always want to have the unbloated faster running phone. I just wish they would put 15 minutes of design time into it so it would also be comfortable to use it. That's all.

 

[EarlyMon]

Your concerns are noted.

Replacing your stock apps with those that have interfaces to your liking will not impact your phone's performance.

When someone makes the perfect phone, we'll all buy it.

Until then, if you want to find things that have had a more hours of development put into them addressing the issues you've raised, you may download them from a choice of over 100,000 of those things, and many of them are free - in the Market. Each apps developer is required to give contact information so you can feedback to them what you need. You can even use Google's web-based development tool to make your own apps if you can't find what you need.

You raised this issue with the entire front end, and you got great help on that.

You raised this issue with how to obtain profiles/scenes/spaces and you got great help on that.

You raised this issue on task killing and you got help with that.

You raised this issue on the Maps interface and you got great help understanding the paradigms and limitations at play, found sympathy with your idea, and got help on what to suggest to Google to accomplish what you want without breaking other interfaces.

You have trouble with available widgets and you got help with that.

And after all of that - you still want us to agree with you that Google can't do things right.

On the only smartphone that can meet your needs, giving you free choices where others have only offered you lock-in.

If you would like help on how to do things or how to maximize your efficiency or where to find things, you can get help on that, here.

That's what this thread has been for, and that's why this thread has been and will remain open, with forum rules fully respected.

This thread is in the Android Lounge and is therefore here for discussing what's wrong or imperfect with various things in Android and how to work with them or around them, with a free exchange of technical issues - and learning a UI or discussing the UI's shortcomings is a technical issue.


If anyone would like to continue to complain about how sad Google is, we have a forum called the Lounge - go there, let your hair down and have at it.

Those are my decisions for the good of the community.

 

[Guamguy]

Haha.. yes I did this update a few hours ago... I don't see any change.

The dialer is a good example for bad ui. You type a number.... now I want to make out of this number a new contact. You would imagine it would be right there, some icon or whatever... so you start searching for it but it's not there. You click contacts... nothing. So you click menu. You see "add to contacts". (before you type a number "menu" doesn't do anything) You click on it... now it says "add new contact" so you need ANOTHER click... Adding a new contact for a phone number would be the most important function, in my opinion (it's still primary a phone, right?) so how come the dialer is such a mess?

When I click on the dialer, why does it show me the call log? Why not the last screen I was on or, at the minimum, the contacts tab?

LOL. I won't have it any other way. That way, you can call back whoever called you and you missed that call.

What you're asking is ridiculous. With heavy phone users, you are far more likely to call who you last called.

And I would include the search bar at the contacts tab by default... why do I need to click "search" (another click..........) instead of starting to type the first letters of a contact and jumping right to it?

So if I want to call someone, it looks like this:

Dialer -> contacts -> search button -> type.... find contact.

instead of:

Dialer -> you are ON contact with search bar ALREADY OPEN so you can start typing the name.

as I said.... no UI.

Lol.

See the Google Search bar? You should have a widget on your home screen always. If not Press Mag. Glass button and Search widget bar pops up.

Type the name of the contact. Even as you enter each letter, the Search Bar is already guessing the name as you go, Google Instant style. The suggestions are displayed underneath the Search Bar.

Simply click to call.

 

[AndroidSPCS]

I would always want to have the unbloated faster running phone. I just wish they would put 15 minutes of design time into it so it would also be comfortable to use it. That's all.

Android design is sound. Just because it doesn't suit YOUR needs or desire exactly doesn't mean a thing, other than that no phone or OS can fit everyone's needs exactly.

But that brings the strength of Android - it can be customized to suit almost anyone's tastes. That's the beauty and power of Android. Can't do that with any other phone OS.

I feel like we're having the same discussion over and over again. Maybe it's time to lock the thread, and stop feeding the...

 

[lordofthereef]

This has been an absolutely fascinating thread to read. I'm a little late to the party but I have a few comments about Android's UI. At first I thought UIexpert was trolling (there was a poster on Engadget named uiexpert who trolled vigorously), but he made some points that I begrudgingly agree with. Most of us are experienced Android users who have become acclimated to the OS's quirks and limitations. Sure you eventually learn Android, but there is a learning curve. Perhaps Google could make the UI a little more standard throughout the various system applications. Perhaps the manufacturers recognized this and decided (with varying degrees of success) to supply missing features through proprietary software (Sense, MotoBlur, TouchWiz, etc).

I've been using HTC's version of Android (Sense) for over a year, starting with the Sprint Hero and currently on the EVO, and I like it. I recently purchased my sister a Nexus S, and it was my first exposure to stock Android. It was pretty jarring. While stock Android felt noticeably zipper than Android + Sense, I thought stock Android was so ... spartan. It lacks features that even my Hero had (namely power control widgets, and other shortcuts). For example, on my EVO, if I want to enable/disable my mobile network I just tap the "Mobile" widget on my homescreen. I couldn't find a similar solution on the Nexus S. To do something as simple as enabling the mobile network on the Nexus S, I had to wade through layers of the settings menu. My sis figured it out after I showed her, but she probably wouldn't have figured it out on her own. And she shouldn't have to. I don't think customs skins are going anywhere anytime soon as long as the underlying UI remains so sparse. Maybe stock will grow on me, but not until Google adds more built-in widgets, options and shortcuts...

Also, no Android phones come with file managers (AndroZip, Astro, et. al.) built into the UI. I think future iterations of Android should have a stock file manager. Android should also explain the file folder structure, either through a tutorial or an instruction manual. I had no clue that I could manipulate my files without plugging my phone into a computer, until I stumbled across AndroZip in the Market.

I think this is an important, informative thread. I've learned alot, and I've enjoyed reading all of the back and forth. Often, real growth comes from critical self analysis. I think we Android users shouldn't be afraid to criticize the OS, when criticism is warranted. I love Android but it could be a bit more accessible and easier to understand for the non-techie.

For something like this, just compare stock android to windows. When you do a fresh install of windows, how many clicks does it take to get to your network. Say you want to disable your ethernet card. It also isn't just an icon sitting on your desktop for you to click, but rather a series of menus that you actually have to know how to find to a certain extent. Now take windows on a prepackaged laptop and you will have all kinds of added things (that I admittedly consider mostly bloatware) for downloading music, loading your wifi network tutorial, etc. My point is that people need to look at stock android as what it isl a full fledged stock OS. It doesn't come with widgets and apps galore because the point is to make it your responsibility to put them there. You decide what you want, rather than the manufacturer of the handset telling you what you want.

 

[lunatic59]

The dialer is a good example for bad ui. You type a number.... now I want to make out of this number a new contact. You would imagine it would be right there, some icon or whatever... so you start searching for it but it's not there. You click contacts... nothing. So you click menu. You see "add to contacts". (before you type a number "menu" doesn't do anything) You click on it... now it says "add new contact" so you need ANOTHER click... Adding a new contact for a phone number would be the most important function, in my opinion (it's still primary a phone, right?) so how come the dialer is such a mess?

No. You touch the menu button and select "add to contacts". It's there.

When I click on the dialer, why does it show me the call log? Why not the last screen I was on or, at the minimum, the contacts tab?

I'm not sure about that one because mine doesn't behave that way. When I click on the dialer it takes me to the dial pad. Perhaps if you still have a notification related to a call, like a missed call or a new voice mail, it might take you to the appropriate tab, I'll have to check into that.

And I would include the search bar at the contacts tab by default... why do I need to click "search" (another click..........) instead of starting to type the first letters of a contact and jumping right to it?

So if I want to call someone, it looks like this:

Dialer -> contacts -> search button -> type.... find contact.

instead of:

Dialer -> you are ON contact with search bar ALREADY OPEN so you can start typing the name.

as I said.... no UI.

Again you are trying to shoehorn Android's default behavior into your own size nines, if i can continue the metaphor ... and complaining it doesn't fit right. Frankly I think you are over-thinking a lot of this. For example when you want to dial a person, instead of going to the dialer, go directly to contacts. Now if you are on the dialer because that's the way you want to think about phone calls and the dial pad is in front of you, simply press the search button that all Android devices have and you can search right from your contact list. It even calls up the keyboard and puts the cursor in the search field. One Click, not four or five.

For the few examples of inconvenient UI behaviors that we all agree on, the vast majority of UI shortcomings are simply approached in a manner you haven't figured out yet, but do exist.

I understand that UI (web) design is your profession and you think about this stuff all the time -- it's important to you, but there's a huge difference between doing it wrong and not doing it your way.

Oh, and BTW ... for all the tech support ... no charge

 

[takeshi]

It's really just one example, I tested many apps and many times found myself clicking back a few times... pop up screen OR actual window, it doesn't matter... there should be a standard "back to home of app" button... it's only logical really.

Here's where I have to disagree with you. When you say "should" and "only logical" implies that there is a universal and (if I may borrow an overused word from the Apple camp) intuitive modality for app behavior. What you mean is that it would be convenient based on the way you'd prefer Android to operate.

It's seems very common for forum users (and I'm assuming this extends to the greater population as well) to have such tunnel vision that they assume that the rest of the world perceives things in exactly the same way. Quite often "intuitive" is used where "intuitive for me" is what should have really been used.

Logical was definitely misused as well. "I prefer" != "logical".

This is precisely why proper UI design requires actual user studies rather than one person dictating how things should be. I'm not saying that UIexpert doesn't have some valid points but they're all so immersed in his insistence that his preferences are "right" that it's difficult to really agree much with him.

I'd say he should design his own skin for Android and we can see just how popular it ends up being. It's going to take far more than 100 hours though.

 

[UIexpert]

Logical was definitely misused as well. "I prefer" != "logical".

No no.... please... wanting to click the minimum amount of times is universal. It's not my preference.

How about this - you click on dialer - you are in calls log + there is a search bar so you can start looking for a contact straight away.

 

[UIexpert]

No. You touch the menu button and select "add to contacts". It's there.

No. I have to click Three times. 1 - Menu. 2 - "add to contact" 3 - "create new contact".

Is it a big deal? No.

If you use a phone for two years and you add up all these "not big deals" does it add up for a couple of minutes? Yes. If you multiply a couple of minutes by 100,000 people who use the phones, do you get 200,000 minutes? Yes.

You want to know why Apple is such a successful company? Read this:

".... One of the things that bothered Steve Jobs the most was the time that it took to boot when the Mac was first powered on. It could take a couple of minutes, or even more, to test memory, initialize the operating system, and load the Finder. One afternoon, Steve came up with an original way to motivate us to make it faster.

Larry Kenyon was the engineer working on the disk driver and file system. Steve came into his cubicle and started to exhort him. "The Macintosh boots too slowly. You've got to make it faster!"

Larry started to explain about some of the places where he thought that he could improve things, but Steve wasn't interested. He continued, "You know, I've been thinking about it. How many people are going to be using the Macintosh? A million? No, more than that. In a few years, I bet five million people will be booting up their Macintoshes at least once a day."

"Well, let's say you can shave 10 seconds off of the boot time. Multiply that by five million users and thats 50 million seconds, every single day. Over a year, that's probably dozens of lifetimes. So if you make it boot ten seconds faster, you've saved a dozen lives. That's really worth it, don't you think?"

 

[UIexpert]

Even when I disable "sign in automatically" Skype (which was down for 24 hours yesterday if you didn't hear the news) loads automatically when I restart the phone. I'm going to leave it untouched all day (not connected, just running) and I will report how much % battery it used.

I also installed two dialer. The first one crashed on use. Then I noticed that even that it crashed, it was still showing in "running apps". I had to uninstall it. Trying a new dialer now.

 

[IOWA]

You may be right.

Most of us have never seen it.

Some people will covet it, some will run from it.

It's been said that your phone was coveted by those that liked that sort of interface - and by those wanting the Google-supported plain vanilla Android.

Personally, I found the UI details much more important to me, so I choose a phone that suited me, out of the box, when I could've had a Nexus One.

Some Nexus One owners largely consider my phone useless eye candy.

There's a selection in Android because the world would be a boring place otherwise.

You do know - and this has been suggested - that you could design your own stuff to overcome what's wrong with that phone and probably make a bundle if you're as good as you claim.

No sarcasm, fact.

We even have a sub-forum where you can hang with budding developers.

Thats funny b/c the first thing I did was strip sense out of my evo lol

 

[txrxio]

How about this - you click on dialer - you are in calls log + there is a search bar so you can start looking for a contact straight away.

Why don't use just use the People shortcut (listed with the apps, although I'd consider it to be more of a shortcut). I don't know if it is an HTC thing, but it was on my home screen when I got the phone so I knew it was there straight away.

Personally, I find that I tend to call the same people very frequently, so they are nearly always in the top of my last calls list. I don't know why you are so hung up about the number of button presses - add a direct dial shortcut for those you call a lot (I'd recommend that everyone should add one for their emergency contact at least).

I think that when you use the search function on the home pages it should also search your contacts, not just the apps and bookmarks. But I'm not bothered by it at all, there are so many easy workarounds that become almost second-nature after only a couple of weeks, it seems silly to worked up about something not working they way YOU think it should. If it worked in a completely off-the-wall way (like Apple's "drag the floppy disk icon to the trash" to eject the disk that made everyone think it is going to delete it) then I could understand, but this is just nit-picky.

 

[EarlyMon]

If you have a lot of contacts, Gesture Search is great.

 

[shawn1224]

A lot of these questions could easily be answered in your phone's user manual. Most people disregard them but if you're new to android this is the best source of material to get you accustomed to the OS.

 

[reinbeau]

Two months ago I was blown away when I got my Captivate. I was lost having come from the Palm world. Now I have this phone set up exactly as I want it....well, Froyo would be nice, but that's coming. Intuitive it's not, but as I sit here Swyping into the forum app to post this I realize I wouldn't want Android to be any other way. What I would like is to have been warned about the learning curve.

 

[lunatic59]

No. I have to click Three times. 1 - Menu. 2 - "add to contact" 3 - "create new contact".

Is it a big deal? No.

The point being that it is not as obtuse as you suggested AND there are alternate dialers in the market that will do exactly what you want. What you are asking for is Android out of the box to be just what you want it to be, configured from your perspective and tuned to your needs. What I want is a device that has the flexibility to be configured to my personal needs by me but can also be altered as those needs change.

If you use a phone for two years and you add up all these "not big deals" does it add up for a couple of minutes? Yes. If you multiply a couple of minutes by 100,000 people who use the phones, do you get 200,000 minutes? Yes.

You want to know why Apple is such a successful company? Read this:

".... One of the things that bothered Steve Jobs the most was the time that it took to boot when the Mac was first powered on. It could take a couple of minutes, or even more, to test memory, initialize the operating system, and load the Finder. One afternoon, Steve came up with an original way to motivate us to make it faster.

Larry Kenyon was the engineer working on the disk driver and file system. Steve came into his cubicle and started to exhort him. "The Macintosh boots too slowly. You've got to make it faster!"

Larry started to explain about some of the places where he thought that he could improve things, but Steve wasn't interested. He continued, "You know, I've been thinking about it. How many people are going to be using the Macintosh? A million? No, more than that. In a few years, I bet five million people will be booting up their Macintoshes at least once a day."

"Well, let's say you can shave 10 seconds off of the boot time. Multiply that by five million users and thats 50 million seconds, every single day. Over a year, that's probably dozens of lifetimes. So if you make it boot ten seconds faster, you've saved a dozen lives. That's really worth it, don't you think?"

Cute story, but hardly logical. In fact, if that engineer took Jobs seriously, I'd fire him, because it is faulty reasoning ... not a resum

 

[EarlyMon]

Thats funny b/c the first thing I did was strip sense out of my evo lol

Yep. We've both used the Moment, so you're right, dropping Sense was a strong temptation - I was on my way there right after rooting.

I keep telling myself I still am and that i'm going back to stock - been saying it for six months.

But Sense isn't addictive and I'm not in denial.

 

[UIexpert]

OK again, I am NOT complaining. I am stating facts. I also want to take this opportunity to thank you for your kindness and the time you took to answer my questions and wish you happy holidays.

You told me that I should install a different dialer, which I can get for free on the market, so I can have more functionality and better GUI, like the dialer you have on your branded phones. "What is your problem?" you ask. Just download an app.

Well, I did, and it was free, and it works fine. (the 2nd one, the first one crashed)

There is only one problem. After 2 minutes of use and 90 minutes of standby time, my energy app tells me that this dialer used 4% of my battery.

Instead of being able to use the OS functions you are telling me that I should download apps and that they run in the background and don't consume any energy and there is no downside to all of it.

My running-in-the-background NOT signed in Skype is eating 7% of my battery, and I can't even easily shut it down, because according to you, I don't have to.

You are very happy with your branded phones and nice GUIs but it seems that this comes at a very high energy cost, and even with my stripped down Nexus I wasn't able to use the phone without a recharge for more than 12 hours with light use.

Maps, which I didn't use today, or even loaded (and I've shut down the phone and opened it again) used 8% of my energy. Why? Who asked it to even run today? I have no idea... So I guess I have to "kill" it, something which according to you I should never need to do.

Again, I'm not complaining, these are just facts (I can send you a screen capture of my battery use) and something to think about when you ask me "what is your problem!? just download an app for it!" because that really shouldn't be the answer for everything.

Android is an OS for phones (at least my version). It is my opinion that it should come out of the box with well designed functionality so I don't have to spend time and effort downloading energy consuming apps, especially for something as basic as a dialer or a more than basic alarm clock.

If you can't see my point then be it.

Happy holidays.

 

[EarlyMon]

When you state facts, feel free to do so without putting words in my mouth, and without ignoring what I've said about Skype.

You're free to re-read so you'll know what was said and we won't need to argue about interpretations.