Andriod UI - what are they thinking?

[lunatic59]

1) The notification keeps coming back

Of course it would, because you've got your phone set to autosync, but have no gmail account to sync to. Go to menu>settings>Accounts & sync and uncheck autosync.

2) MESSAGE tone please, not ringtone

Please explain that. An audio file is what you use it for. A ringtone, notification tone etc. are just audio files that play when triggered by an event. If another phone you had differentiated between those files available for calls vs. those available for messages, I can understand your confusion. But the mistake is not in Android's design but in your assumption that all phones must behave the same way, use the same terminology and offer the same set of standard features.

3) ...and how do I move things from the phone to the memory card?

4) ...and without an app?

Nope sorry, no. You can set the storage location for user files and nine times out of ten the default is the SD Card. I assume the reason would be to get those files off the phone which is done by removing the card or tethering your phone to a PC. Of course with one of the many free file management apps in the market you can copy and move and browse external networks wirelessly and stream media from a remote server and and and, but since it's not part of your default Android setup, it doesn't count, right?

And in answer to your Qs -

Yes its a HTC

Every nokia and SE symbian phone I ever owned does it intuitively

All that means is that you knew how to do it on a Symbian phone and that you had been exposed to similar hierarchical command systems before to expect a certain option to yield a certain result. Most of what you are asking is very doable on an Android device, just not he way want or expect it to be.

Let me reiterate what has been said before opinions!=facts and expectations of one individual!=universal paradigm.

Regardless of where the guy is or isn't now, its 100% true

Yes and no. What he wrote is an opinion piece so I would have to say that it is 100% true that those are (or were) his opinions. I would argue his conclusions, but a man is entitled to his opinion. I would point out, however, that he's comparing a relatively low end Android device running an outdated version of the OS. We could also be listing the 10 reasons that horses are better than cars, which would be just about as relevant.

 

[uzetaab]

(new keyboard, yay! The keys feel fantastic to press. Microsoft Ergonomic 4000 for those interested)

1) The notification keeps coming back

2) MESSAGE tone please, not ringtone

3) ...and how do I move things from the phone to the memory card?

4) ...and without an app?

And in answer to your Qs -

Yes its a HTC

Every nokia and SE symbian phone I ever owned does it intuitively

Regardless of where the guy is or isn't now, its 100% true

1) What exactly does this notification say? you have an email? If you just open the email it will stop bothering you. Further, you can turn syncing with gmail off in settings.

2) IMO, the intuitive place to go to if you want to change the message alert is the message app. This is where that setting is. From the all messages screen, menu button>settings.

3)The things you mentioned in your first post are images & MP3s. When the first responder said it does it automatically, he meant that they don't get saved to the phone, they get saved to the memory card. There is no need to move them because they are already there.

4)I'm not really sure what you're talking about here. You mean a report that tells you how many messages you have? What the message is? Who sent it? or just an alert tone to tell you that you have a message?


Finally, I'm not pointing the rest of my post to Hannah specifically, but to everyone in general (especially new users).

Google intentionally designed their phone to be customisable with Apps. Even for...no...especially for basic functionality, like the phone dialer & messaging app.

I don't claim to have any inside knowledge about google, I don't work for them & I'm not a telepath, but it seems pretty obvious to me that they don't like Apple's policy of "no apps that duplicate basic functionality".

I don't mean to hate on Apple here, Steve Jobs' opinion is that the best way is to let the experts in their field design the way things work (like a phone dialer) to make it as easy as they can for the user.

Google on the other hand have the Opinion that if the user doesn't like the way basic functionality works, then they should be free to change it to suit themselves.

Those are both valid opinions & frankly, the user should be able to decide for themselves which opinion suits them better & go with that phone. As for the other smartphone OSes, I don't know enough about them to comment, but I imagine that they have their own methodology for such things.

Getting back to my point though, Android has been specifically designed to allow the user to customise almost everything for themselves. It is the main principle that drives these phones. This is how these phones are meant to be used. The way that you do this is by installing other Apps onto the phone.

If you are not comfortable doing this, then you probably have the wrong phone. Before you take it back & exchange it for a phone that might be more to your liking though;

1) Really sit down & think about it. Do you really want a phone that you have to make concessions on because the designers decided that something should be done this way, when you would prefer to do it that way?

2a) If you decide that you would rather do it that way, then is it worth the time that it will take to truly make the phone your own? If you have better things to do with your time, then by all means, take it back.

2b)If you are willing to spend the time to make the phone your own, the follow the advice that EarlyMon posted earlier in this thread (long post so link instead of quote):

http://androidforums.com/android-lounge/240414-andriod-ui-what-they-thinking-5.html#post2044637

Good luck in whatever you decide to do. I support whatever your decisions are, because that's the whole point to consumer choice.

 

[Guamguy]

1) The notification keeps coming back

2) MESSAGE tone please, not ringtone

Same thing.

3) ...and how do I move things from the phone to the memory card?

It always stores things in the card.

4) ...and without an app?

Open the Music app which comes with the phone. Set the MP3 as a ringtone.
Open the Message App and change the ringtone to the new one.

Every nokia and SE symbian phone I ever owned does it intuitively

No they don't. I also owned them too.

Regardless of where the guy is or isn't now, its 100% true

LOL. Symbian Guru declared he is fed up, put an end to that blog and bought Android phones. His very actions put an end to his arguments. This is not to mention what he said as he "resigned" from Symbian.

Let me ask you, which Nokia or Symbian phone lets me do this?

Set Opera browser as default. Set any browser as default.

Lets you save Map directions on your homescreen.

Lets you save Facebook contacts on your homescreen.

Lets you include Facebook profile, Yahoo messenger, in your contact information.

Lets you see his last Facebook update on his contact page.

Lets you see his last Twitter update on his contact page.

Which Symbian phone lets you tap on a notification and transfers you directly to the source of the notification?

Which lets you assign different ringtones per contact?

Which lets you assign a different notification ringtone per email account?

Which lets you assign a different notification ringtone per social networking or instant messaging service?

Which lets you share a browser link directly to Twitter or Facebook or MySpace?

Which Symbian phone has a universal search, which can search a keyword from your phone contacts to your Facebook contacts?

Which Symbian notifies you when a download is finished?

Which one notifies you when an app installed?

Which one can notify you of an incoming news report from an app?

 

[EarlyMon]

I was trying to figure out now how to switch back to the original dialer so I could test this, but gave up after 5 minutes because I couldn't find out how to do it....

....

...

dot dot dot

Hey - want to give this a bump, it seems an important question to me and I'm guessing it only went unanswered due to the holiday.

So - what's the answer - menu-> settings-> applications and then clear data somewhere? Access orig dialer app from drawer and then find option?

 

[Guamguy]

Menu > Settings > Applications > Managing Applications > Dialer app in question > Clear Default button.

Same procedure is also used to clear default shells and browsers,

 

[reinbeau]

I put a shortcut to Phone right in my dock, easy-peasy. Come to think of it, now that I look at my main dock, it's all about the phone, pretty much, I've got a shortcut to aTAKEphONE, one to my contacts (for when I get frustrated with aTAKEphONE), and a shortcut to Phone. Also the App Drawer and GO SMS. But I've got several other docks to scroll through because of LauncherPro (and seven screens to customize). I have all the options a girl could want, all because of the customization possibilities that Android gives me.

 

[UIexpert]

Menu > Settings > Applications > Managing Applications > Dialer app in question > Clear Default button.

Same procedure is also used to clear default shells and browsers,

Nice, thank you.

I don't think this thread is an opinion. UI is a science. People write 300 page Masters and PHD dissertations about it. Companies spend millions on research and design of UI.

Whenever I picked up an old Nokia I was always able to find what I was looking for in under 30 seconds. I didn't have to think about it... once I picked up a Sony Ericsson, I threw it away after two minutes, it was a piece of junk. I'm talking only UI, nothing else. It's very easy to feel when the UI is intuitive.

It's obvious that Apple is more GUI/design than anything else.... they couldn't even get their antenna right! But that doesn't mean that Google should go to the other extreme... which I think they did, at least at first, and now they are improving things as they go along.

"The Nexus line is becoming a product that demonstrates Google's vision of how smartphones can perform with Android software"

I'm not sure Google *wants* me to go to the Market and download a bunch of apps. Nexus is all about Android purity and lean performance.
In fact, my phone came with tons of Google made apps and we all know that if they could have it their way we would all be using only their stuff.

I understand the stock keyboard was a piece of junk until now, is that right? My 2.3 keyboard is great... now improve the rest please... thanks.

 

[UIexpert]

Here is another example... I just realized this now.

I have on my phone (out of the box) Navigation, Google Earth, Maps, Latitude, and Car Home. Not one but FIVE ( 5 ) navigation apps, all doing more or less a variation on the exact same thing, all from Google.

** UPDATE - there is also PLACES - a 6th App.

Seriously now, if they really knew what they were doing, UI wise and otherwise, would there really be five different GPS apps?

Sometimes I'm in maps, I click on some button and then it jumps to Navigation... OK, fine... not the end of the world. There are maybe 10 different ways I can find an address. I know what you will say - "that's more options!". But I say - that's confusing!!!!

I bet if SJ would see this on iOS he would call his designers and tell them:

"What the HELL is this?! FIVE GPS apps?! Do you want people spending time on trying to understand what the hell is the difference between each of them instead of spending money in iTunes ?! Who the HELL hired you!? You are all fired!!!!"

;-)

Then they would jump off a building... those poor Chinese! (I know I know, those are only the factory workers, although who knows... maybe that's why they couldn't get the antenna right, they designed that in China too)

Then SJ would look at them as they fly off the building to the ground... and then his eyes will shine with a spark of genius! "HEY! what about an App that lets you calculate your falling speed when you're jumping off a building?!?!?!? THAT'S GREAT! GREAT! GREAT! Somebody bring me something to write with! FAST! before I forget!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nx7v815bYUw

That's another type of GPS app.... I'm sure we will see that on 2.4 ;-)

OK, back to work now.

 

[EarlyMon]

The tech advance here, in my opinion, is that nav is now easy and free as opposed to easy and for-pay.

And they have their desktop histories dragging behind them - Google Maps didn't start off showing satellite view, traffic view or tying to nav functions.

And I respectfully disagree - UI design is not a science, it's an engineering discipline and therefore takes a lot of art and designer judgment to get right.

Physics and chem and bio and geo are sciences - computer science is a mathematical discipline and therefore has more in common with science than engineering, which is its own discipline and requires practice and mastery of science and math disciplines in many cases.

There are four main components to any s/w design: UI, data, computation and control. UI's incredibly important because you only get one chance to make a good first impression, but it's not the whole ball of wax.

For this thread, tho, it's everything and I think we all agree on that.

PS - the antenna thing was strictly a Yankee screwup.

I understand the stock keyboard was a piece of junk until now, is that right?

Not according to my fine-artist wife who cares only about easy-to-use and nothing else. She runs stock Android 2.1 and has decided I'm not to go near updating her phone.

As for the point of the Nexus S, I'm looking for Google statements on that so we can put the speculations to rest with a citation.

In the meantime, I note again that the NYT once again was clueless about how the two Nexus phones came about -

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/16/technology/personaltech/16pogue.html

I'm going to have to write Pogue about that, we used to correspond - usually, he gets things pretty right, especially his Apple products reports. His outsider's view of chaos shouldn't be taken lightly, even if some of us disagree with him.

 

[UIexpert]

And I respectfully disagree - UI design is not a science, it's an engineering discipline and therefore takes a lot of art and designer judgment to get right.

Are you saying that engineering has to do more with art than with science?

Even that there is art involved the bottom line is that UI decisions should be the result of scientific research and principles. I don't think they interviewed 1000 people and decided, scientifically, that the dialer should not have an easy to use and intuitive "add new contact" function but one that requires three clicks.....

More likely two mediocre designers (who got their job because of family ties) or worse, two programmers, decided how the dialer will look like according to how easy it will be to code it. I work with programmers all the time, I know how it goes.

 

[EarlyMon]

Are you saying that engineering has to do more with art than with science?

I'm saying that engineering has more to do with art than science has to do with art.

Even that there is art involved the bottom line is that UI decisions should be the result of scientific research and principles.

That's an exact description of an engineering discipline and engineering is engineering - it's not a science.

ALL product solutions are - by definition - compromises.

The art of engineering a product is the subtle balancing of compromises within a constrained solution space. The components being balanced might ought be based solely on known and studied factors, but that's not a rule - otherwise, we'd have had no disruptive products breaking through the chains of earlier designs.

Science is the act and discipline of explaining things within a constrained knowledge space. And while the end result of scientists is often taught with great methodology, the act of discovery by theoretical scientists is just as often based on methodology as pure, ethereal inspiration.

Big difference there.

And it's unfortunate that you've only worked with bottom feeders in the programming field, more so because you're extrapolating to how things are done in better software groups based on too-little actual knowledge of the wealth of the field overall.

I don't think they interviewed 1000 people and decided, scientifically...

...they used psychologically-sound techniques and surveyed across all viable solutions with a properly selected target cross section of the intended users with a sample size canonically dictated by a peer-reviewed analysis of the confidence interval and decided based upon a mathematical model to test their findings against their assumptions....

Fixed that for you, and I don't know whether they did that or not.

Felt it important to toss that in there, with just one series of an Android phone approaching sales of 10 million in two months, I couldn't decide if you believe 1000 people of unspecified cultural background was a sufficient sample size to make that decision or if it was a notional point, and I'd overthought what you were trying to say.

 

[UIexpert]

Engineering is the creative application of scientific principles.

I don't know what we are arguing about.

OK - question:

My new dialer app behaves like this - when you type a new number that is not in your contact list it shows you a button that says "create contact". The Google dialer doesn't behave like that, it does not assume that if I type a new number, I might want to add it as a new contact.

Would you agree that my new dialer is easier to use, in that respect, than the Google dialer?

It's not a trick question or a trap, it's an honest question, I will not follow up with another one.

 

[EarlyMon]

I didn't mean to argue, maybe we were saying the same thing in different ways.

As far as the pop-up asking if you want to add the caller as a contact - I don't know what to make of that. Let me think out loud...

Mine does that whenever you get a call from an unknown number. I turned it off as a nuisance dialog. I know how to add contacts, I'll decide when.

OK - that's my opinion - better to have suggestive dialogs that some users will find helpful and others that don't can turn off - than to have nothing at all.

In that sense, your new dialer sounds superior to the Google dialer to me.

Oh and btw - whenever finding a superior app, we tend to enjoy hearing its name so we can share in using what others have found to be better than what we might have.

Also ok if you don't want to do that, it's up to you.

(If you've already done that, apologies I missed it - I'm trying to mod about 40 threads as I type this stuff...)

Providing the name, the link to the Market, or the Appbrain.com description or the maker's web site is ok - just never link to a rogue download of a copyrighted app. (Not that I would expect a designer to do that, it's just part of my spiel.)

 

[UIexpert]

In that sense, your new dialer sounds superior to the Google dialer to me.

OK so my next question is... why a company with 700 trillion dollar can't make a .... ;-) just kidding.

Oh and btw - whenever finding a superior app, we tend to enjoy hearing its name so we can share in using what others have found to be better than what we might have.

It's called Dialer One:

Dialer One - Android app on AppBrain

 

[Slug]

I have on my phone (out of the box) Navigation, Google Earth, Maps, Latitude, and Car Home. Not one but FIVE ( 5 ) navigation apps, all doing more or less a variation on the exact same thing, all from Google.

That "variation" is for a reason. Maps is a general-purpose app, whereas Navigation is singular in purpose. Latitude is for location-awareness, while Earth is self-explanatory. Car Home is an optimised interface for (surprise!) use in automobiles. What's cool is that they're aware of each other and can interact/share info like a single app too.

Seriously now, if they really knew what they were doing, UI wise and otherwise, would there really be five different GPS apps?

I thought similar when I first got my Hero, but after a week or so had a sudden epiphany. I realised that much of the problem was my mindset. I was expecting app-centric behaviour, but Android is really much more task-centric. If you concentrate on what you want to do, rather than what to use to do it, you'll probably find it seems a lot more intuitive.

Regarding your dialer point, while your solution may be easier for you it wouldn't suit me as I'm much more likely to dial people already in my contacts list than new numbers. That's why I prefer the HTC Sense dialer over the stock one, and why I use Nubdial on my Hero (with Froyo). That's the beauty of Android - it can be whatever you want it to be.

 

[UIexpert]

Regarding your dialer point, while your solution may be easier for you it wouldn't suit me as I'm much more likely to dial people already in my contacts list than new numbers. That's why I prefer the HTC Sense dialer over the stock one, and why I use Nubdial on my Hero (with Froyo). That's the beauty of Android - it can be whatever you want it to be.

I also usually call contacts... but sometimes I need to add a new one. That's not the point. It's just an example or inferior design that's all.

I can imagine 20 better ways to organize these different navigation apps in one clear easy to use way. I could if I wanted start uploading screen captures on here and we could start to discuss how unorganized and confusing some of these apps are. But you can't even agree with me that their dialer suck (unless I put the question in a very specific yes/no form) so I don't want to get into it.. I think we all made out point.

Now... Angry Birds.... whats the deal here? Confusing story line, different stages, then different levels...inconsistent gravitation, one moment the level is super hard, the next one super easy, then the next one hard again....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMltvlqEM54

 

[EarlyMon]

It was a runaway success of a game on the iPhone and it is here, taking in over $1.5 million per month in ad revenue.

 

[UIexpert]

I bet the birds get no more than 5% of that.... and the pigs even less. That's capitalism for you.

 

[EarlyMon]

What? You've never heard of capitalist pigs? Or giving them the bird?

Whatever's up with that game, it had me for a while. I d/l'd it to help another user troubleshoot a config. Ended up trying it and liking it - not before finding the controls very confusing at first.

I tend to hate games in general and avoid them. This one I like, you get to practice and optimize sequencing of teeny problem-solving exercises once you get the hang of the controls. It's what most of us do in real life, only here there are no consequences - except to the thieving pigs.

 

[Slug]

I also usually call contacts... but sometimes I need to add a new one. That's not the point. It's just an example or inferior design that's all.

In your opinion. Others (like myself) don't see it like that.

I can imagine 20 better ways to organize these different navigation apps in one clear easy to use way.

Again, in your opinion. Why are you so certain that your requirements/expectations will suit everyone else? The very fact that several differing views have been expressed surely shows that this isn't the case?

But you can't even agree with me that their dialer suck

With that attitude you'll be hard pushed to find anyone agreeing with you on anything. This is a forum for discussion, after all. You shouldn't expect agreement.

 

[UIexpert]

In your opinion. Others (like myself) don't see it like that.

Again, in your opinion. Why are you so certain that your requirements/expectations will suit everyone else? The very fact that several differing views have been expressed surely shows that this isn't the case?

It is your opinion that you are better off clicking 3 times than 1 time. I see.

No. Sorry. Five separate apps that overlap in many areas are worse (scientifically, this is not an opinion) than one clear application that would have one clear way of doing a certain task. You can't convince me otherwise.

You would have one navigation app with a clear "home" with clear tasks:

FIND AN ADDRESS (Navigation)

WHERE AM I (Latitude)

EXPLORE (Earth)

etc, clear, consistent interface, one clear way of doing a certain task (not 10 different ways to do the exact same thing).

There is no chance in the world that you are better off with 5 different applications, each with a different GUI, style, overlapping capabilities, switching from one to another, keeping both open, consuming resources....

no no no no...

no no...

no

sorry!

 

[UIexpert]

Do you want to post a poll question? It would look like this:

What would you prefer - one clear navigation app with a consistent GUI and one clear way to achieve each task.

Or

Five apps, inconsistent GUI, overlapping capabilities, many different ways to do the same thing, but it's not really the same thing, just almost the same thing, just enough to confuse you so you never know where you are at, which app you are using and how to use it.

Do you want to post this poll or should I do it?

 

[Slug]

Do you want to post a poll question?

No, because it will serve no useful purpose. If you truly want to make Android "better" then I suggest that you address your concerns to Google (which has the ability to make changes) rather than a group of end-users here (who don't).

I'm not trying to convince you of anything. You don't like how Android does things.... we get that. In a similar vein, why can't you accept that others don't feel the same way? I'm sorry, but your posts are beginning to look like merely arguing for the sake of it.

 

[UIexpert]

I just checked this... very confusing. You have driving directions in "Maps" and you have driving directions in "Navigate". They look and behave completely different. You can "jump" from Maps to Navigation if you want but there is "by car" option in Maps. Latitude and Maps seems to me the exact same thing (as far as I can see) other than that it's a different icon and a different name... for the same thing... really, I'm not kidding. Car Home is the same as Navigate with a nice "home page" that lets you "phone", "music", "contacts" and add address shortcuts, it also connects to "places".

OH, a 6th GPS app... Places! How could I miss that one. So there are SIX of them.

Places lets you choose two ways to navigate, depending on which icon you click, one uses the Maps navigation, the other the Navigation navigation. There is also "more options" that brings you to street view... what a mess... this is so confusing people, really.

 

[UIexpert]

I'm sorry, but your posts are beginning to look like merely arguing for the sake of it.

I could tell you the exact same thing. It doesn't matter what flaw I will point to, you will say you prefer it like that... more clicks are better than less clicks, overlapping double capabilities are better than no overlapping capabilities, etc....

This place is called "Android-Lounge". These are legitimate questions/concerns. There is better chance that Google will take notice if tech writers and bloggers read this and then join in or write about the same things somewhere else, than me just writing an email to some unmonitored mail box.

And of course, I'm also being paid to post these things by a large company... I can't give you the name but it starts with an A... OK? So leave me alone people I'm just trying to make a living.