Android App Wiping TMO G1 phones Clean

[justjimjpc]

I got a low memory error last night and was browsing, so I went into the browser an cleared the cache there, browser cache only I assume and it went away. Never ran Memory programs of any kind.

One question, flash memory is just like a hard drive correct? It is the SSD drive used on the G1. How big is it? It would make sense that like a HD it could be defragged and optimized.

I also recall Adobe Photoshop in the past using a fancy RAM toolset to actually use some HD space as temp RAM, due to the large size of the files that program worked with. I wonder if in these devices that is done.

I think Continuous Shot for example does some fancy footwork in this area. It seems to capture all your images fast, then renders them slowly. Then allows you to write them to portable storage (microSD).

The flash memory (ssd) drive in the phone is the 72-74 GB I would say as that is where OS and programs and settings are stored ... ]

 

[justjimjpc]

OK. It happened to me today. I got the low memory warning and resisted the urge to run the app. The warning cleared as I continued browsing so I checked settings and now have 35M of free space. Basically the Market cache has auto-cleared. If I had run either of the memory apps I would have thought they had done their job. It would seem though that Android sorts itself out. I am becoming more and more sceptical that either of the memory apps are doing anything beneficial.

I think that the JMV may in time clear memory issues ... but it is not immediate and is not predictive no settable to a safety zone that is tuned to your own use ... this I believe is what the Pro version of MemoryUp can do .... Powering off should clear the LowMem ... but I have had one incident where it did not ... I did not wait an hour after powering back up to see if it would clear but I did wait about 5 minutes and It didnt ... possible fluke ??? software can be buggy is we all know ... so it might have cleared given enough time ... But I Know that I can defrag and recover available RAM and any point in time ... so I will continue to use when I get the LowMemory Alert ... and maybe someday apps will be stored and loaded from the SD and free up the phone memory for more operating room ...

 

[Manacit]

I got a low memory error last night and was browsing, so I went into the browser an cleared the cache there, browser cache only I assume and it went away. Never ran Memory programs of any kind.

One question, flash memory is just like a hard drive correct? It is the SSD drive used on the G1. How big is it? It would make sense that like a HD it could be defragged and optimized.

I also recall Adobe Photoshop in the past using a fancy RAM toolset to actually use some HD space as temp RAM, due to the large size of the files that program worked with. I wonder if in these devices that is done.

I think Continuous Shot for example does some fancy footwork in this area. It seems to capture all your images fast, then renders them slowly. Then allows you to write them to portable storage (microSD).

Flash memory is like harddrive in the sense that it is used to store permanent data that is not updated rapidly like RAM. It can be defragged, but if they are using a proper file system it really shouldn't be necessary. MemoryUp would not have the permissions to do this either, unless it is able to escalate to root privileges.

Using that harddrive as RAM is known as swap, or virtual memory depending on which OS you use, Android uses no swap.

I have no idea how continuous shot works.

 

[justjimjpc]

More Research ...

G1 Memory Spec:
..........ROM: 256 MB (184MB used for OS and PreInstalled Apps)
...................leaving 72MB for app storage (when recieved from TMO)
..........RAM: 192 MB

I am now believing that Memory(apps) are probably unable to do anything with ROM or SD storage ... as Manacit says/states "Android uses no swap" which is a shame...

But RAM I think is used to clear LowMemory ... in as much as the OS/apps run in RAM ... so even though a LowMemory Alert is Probably an alert of Low ROM / and possibly RAM ??? it still takes RAM to clear it ... and this explains how MemoryUp can clear the LowMemory Alert.

I have Loaded enough apps (into the ROM) (phone is reporting 6MB Free)
and the "Low On Space" Alert is set ...
and will not clear until aproximately 7MB of ROM space is made available.

Now Waiting for a LowMemory Alert ... to test the MemoryUp App to see if it will clear it while there is a low amount or ROM as well...

 

[dkaufman1]

More Research ...

G1 Memory Spec:
..........ROM: 256 MB (184MB used for OS and PreInstalled Apps)
...................leaving 72MB for app storage (when recieved from TMO)
..........RAM: 192 MB

I am now believing that Memory(apps) are probably unable to do anything with ROM or SD storage ... as Manacit says/states "Android uses no swap" which is a shame...

But RAM I think is used to clear LowMemory ... in as much as the OS/apps run in RAM ... so even though a LowMemory Alert is Probably an alert of Low ROM / and possibly RAM ??? it still takes RAM to clear it ... and this explains how MemoryUp can clear the LowMemory Alert.

I have Loaded enough apps (into the ROM) (phone is reporting 6MB Free)
and the "Low On Space" Alert is set ...
and will not clear until aproximately 7MB of ROM space is made available.

Now Waiting for a LowMemory Alert ... to test the MemoryUp App to see if it will clear it while there is a low amount or ROM as well...

So just so I am clear in following your test, 6mb of free ROM means you loaded up 68 MB of apps, from the 72 MB that came free from Tmo?

 

[justjimjpc]

So just so I am clear in following your test, 6mb of free ROM means you loaded up 68 MB of apps, from the 72 MB that came free from Tmo?

Yes I currently have 167 apps on the phone ... leaving me 6MB for storage .. LOL maybe not enough to even store "CupCake"

 

[justjimjpc]

....partial quote
Using that harddrive as RAM is known as swap, or virtual memory depending on which OS you use, Android uses no swap.

I have no idea how continuous shot works.

I have a utility app called NETMeter ... with it you can monitor CPU activity, Cell and wifi. There is also a menu feature for looking at CPU running task by % of CPU activity ..

Watching this task list is quite interesting ... as background apps run .. Like when new mail arrives or if you go to read your email from the Status alert .. one of the processes/tasks that run is called "kswapd0"... shortly afterward the task clears the cpu ...

Recieving a text msg will cause the the "kswapd0" to run ...

While trying to run MemoryUp "Boost" and then switching as quick as possible to the NeTMeter to see if "kswapd0" is running ,,, I have not been able to see it yet ...

so it would be interesting to know if any of our talented developers and sdk wizards out there can tell us what the "SWAP" task is doing .. Maybe doing swaps from RAM to ROM of ViceVersa ... ???

EDIT: since the task is not preceded with "com.(appname)...." it is not an installed app task and must be an Android OS process ...

 

[Ageless Stranger]

Watching this task list is quite interesting ... as background apps run .. Like when new mail arrives or if you go to read your email from the Status alert .. one of the processes/tasks that run is called "kswapd0"... shortly afterward the task clears the cpu ...

<snip>

EDIT: since the task is not preceded with "com.(appname)...." it is not an installed app task and must be an Android OS process ...

For those who don't know what kswapd0 is:-

Linux uses kswapd for its virtual memory management, in a nutshell it make sure pages of memory that have been recently accessed are kept in memory, and older pages are paged out to disk.

 

[justjimjpc]

<snip>



For those who don't know what kswapd0 is:-

Linux uses kswapd for its virtual memory management, in a nutshell it make sure pages of memory that have been recently accessed are kept in memory, and older pages are paged out to disk.

Thanks for that ... Ageless ... so Manacit's comment that there is no swapping is not totally correct ... ?

Also, is kswapd0 swapping "RAM" pages of memory or RAM/ROM pages ...

Another thing .. since mail and text messages are stored on reciept ... It can be assumed (yes?) that the OS is running kswap0 to swap these from RAM to someplace that can be read later ... even if you are offline ..
Where Are these email and text msg threads stored (on the ROM or SD drive ? ...

Thanks for you expertise in this stuff

 

[Ageless Stranger]

I am not sure what is going on "behind the scenes" with the G1 when a message comes in, but from experience, the operating system decides what memory needs to be paged out/in and not the application. The memory manager used by Linux is an intelligent one, it tries to keep fragmentation down to a minimum and only pages what it deems necessary.

As ROM is read only, the locations of anything in ROM is fixed and can always be found by looking at fixed addresses and therefore doesnt need the paging mechanisms used by RAM.

 

[justjimjpc]

I am not sure what is going on "behind the scenes" with the G1 when a message comes in, but from experience, the operating system decides what memory needs to be paged out/in and not the application. The memory manager used by Linux is an intelligent one, it tries to keep fragmentation down to a minimum and only pages what it deems necessary.

As ROM is read only, the locations of anything in ROM is fixed and can always be found by looking at fixed addresses and therefore doesnt need the paging mechanisms used by RAM.

Thinking about that !! ...
(ROM) storage (where apps are Stored) ... over time the ROM would become fragmented by deleting/unistalling and installing new apps ... Is the OS doing its own behind the scenes defrag and recovery of ROM space ? so new apps can be efficiently stored over time ... ?

EDIT : Also just noticed that a Clock alarm kicked the kswapd0 task ....

 

[Ageless Stranger]

Historically ROM means Read Only Memory, i.e Memory that can be read in the conventional sense, but not written to (except with special access) whilst RAM means Random Access Memory whereby data can be read and written without any restrictions.

I was under the impression that the ROM on the G1 contains the firmware and the operating system. I havent really looked to deeply into the G1 so you could very well be right in saying that downloaded apps are stored on ROM (which is flash ROM, a different kettle of fish). I would say that flash ROM is less prone to fragmentation than RAM is, but not completely void of becoming fragmented.

 

[justjimjpc]

Historically ROM means Read Only Memory, i.e Memory that can be read in the conventional sense, but not written to (except with special access) whilst RAM means Random Access Memory whereby data can be read and written without any restrictions.

I was under the impression that the ROM on the G1 contains the firmware and the operating system. I havent really looked to deeply into the G1 so you could very well be right in saying that downloaded apps are stored on ROM (which is flash ROM, a different kettle of fish). I would say that flash ROM is less prone to fragmentation than RAM is, but not completely void of becoming fragmented.

Well it surely can not be what we all call ram ... as that is volatile and is lost when power is removed ... and since the apps are not natively stored on the SDcard but on the phone's memory its has to be ROM ... and of course would mean that this is FlashRom and is easily updated by R/W firmware ... also makes sense that when you reset the phone it returns to /// or there are protected areas of the ROM that are not reflashed ... but you do have to reload all of your apps ... the names of these apps are stored in protected ROM so that it very easy to get your phone back to where it was prior to the Reset...

 

[dkaufman1]

As noted earlier in this thread...often when you are working in various apps, and reacting to notifications, switching back and forth and then choose to press the "home" button, the time to get the icons back is exceedingly long. I have seen this happen before on other smart phones and the cause (from a user's perspective) is too many apps were running and too many apps are loaded up on the device. All this memory is being used in both ROM and RAM and there is no ability for the device to elegantly shift things around anymore.

I have even seen devices, G1 included just crap out and reboot. The worst is when this occurs during a phone call, which has happened on the G1.

 

[justjimjpc]

As noted earlier in this thread...often when you are working in various apps, and reacting to notifications, switching back and forth and then choose to press the "home" button, the time to get the icons back is exceedingly long. I have seen this happen before on other smart phones and the cause (from a user's perspective) is too many apps were running and too many apps are loaded up on the device. All this memory is being used in both ROM and RAM and there is no ability for the device to elegantly shift things around anymore.

I have even seen devices, G1 included just crap out and reboot. The worst is when this occurs during a phone call, which has happened on the G1.

I can believe the overload situation and the crashing of the phone ... luckily since OCT-22_08 my date of getting the phone .. I have only had the phone turn-off and reboot by itself 2 times ... luckily it was not during a phone call ... they were both during web-browsing ...

 

[ChilledMatt]

I can believe the overload situation and the crashing of the phone ... luckily since OCT-22_08 my date of getting the phone .. I have only had the phone turn-off and reboot by itself 2 times ... luckily it was not during a phone call ... they were both during web-browsing ...

Other people have reported their g1 rebooting itself and it has transpired to be faulty batteries. Mine has never done it, I got it in November. I am a fairly heavy user, and often switch between apps. I have had the thing when I switch to the desktop and it takes some time for the g1 to display all the icons. But it has always sorted itself out afterwards whether I run one of the memory apps or not.

 

[escho]

all my contact data wiped from phone, sd card didnt get wiped, but doesnt have any recently (from past month) input data my Gmail contacts folder wasnt up to date either.my favorites folder wiped too, but the phone shortcuts on launcher were still there.
should i be syncing my phone manually? all other apps like astrid seem normal. Thanks for any help
eric