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Android only sees 256MB of RAM?
- Thread starter FlyPenFly
- Start date
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- Tags
- htc droid incredible
I'm saying it's maybe possible, but obviously i don't really know. What I do know is this phone can keep more apps open simultaneously than devices with 256mb ram and htc designed this phone to report that it has 404mb ram. Why would they do this if it wasn't true? Nobody has ventured a reasonable explanation for this. So how about offering some explanation instead of just striking down my theories providing no justification whatsoever?
How have I not provided justification? It sounds like you're feeling placebo from having a fresh phone with a 1ghz snapdragon.
The kernel can't address more than 256mb of memory, period. There's no way around it without upgrading it. Thankfully its just a software upgrade.
jwm2
Android Expert
I have a color laser printer thats similar. You can stuff all the ram in you want but it will only use a certain amount and thats that. I have a laptop thats the same way, it can only use 4gb of ram, end of story. I can put 8gb in it if i really wanted to but it won't read or use the extra memory space. I don't know why its so hard to understand. I'm guessing one app is reading the total size of the memory and another is reading the amount used and available to the os.
This thread suggests that XDA is mistaken about there being a 256MB limitation:
Android phones currently limited to 256MB RAM - Samsung i8910 Omnia HD User Forums
Android phones currently limited to 256MB RAM - Samsung i8910 Omnia HD User Forums
jasonb1985
Android Expert
Exactly. Maybe HTC patched the kernel.
winespectator
Newbie
Hey now slow down...... I love robo defense not to mention those triangles come in handy on a live wall paper... And while you are preaching see how many triangles my old storm did and you will see how fast the DINC is compared to it.
"Because it can't" is not an explanation. If you provide the htc document that lists the kernel as being limited to 256mb I will listen, otherwise I will continue to regard it as an absurd rumor.
I can tell the difference between ram and processor speed. When I drove around with my droid i liked to use navigation, pandora, and trapster simultaneously. The problem was trapster would often miss camera alerts. When switching to trapster, it would show the initial loading screen seen when first starting it up, indicating android had closed it for lack of ram. ATM confirmed this, and this was after having done a kill all of useless tasks before running any of the 3. The incredible can run everything together no problem, even with the browser running, and switching to trapster is seamless, and it doesn't miss alerts. And I never bother to kill any tasks on my Inc.
So am I supposed to believe the sense-ui-fm-radio-laden version of android on the inc uses less resources than the minimal stock one included on the droid? Please. Close your mouth before you embarrass yourself.
Android 2.2 Platform Highlights | Android Developers
Notice the part where it says "HIGHMEM support for RAM >256MB"
CRPercodani
OFWGKTA
Chill out and have a nice debate, don't call names though.
chris61292
Well-Known Member
me wants a galaxy s. 90 million triangles/sec jasonb1985
Android Expert
ok, but maybe HTC patched the kernel already. it is possible for an OEM to modify software.
anybody have any proof, any hard evidence that HTC didn't back port something into the current kernel?
Why do people get so angry about tech specs. Sheesh.
If you're going to make an extraordinary claim that HTC is modifying the kernel without versioning and making their own Linux kernel branch which is extremely unlikely, you should be the one providing evidence.
wonderbread
Android Enthusiast
I asked about this month(s) ago on XDA and got yelled at that, it is true, 2.1 can only see 256, you'll have to root and use a hacked kernel or wait for the upgrade to see more.
But um, the thing is already soooooo fast. Can you imagine how stunning it will be with the full ram visible? awsome
But um, the thing is already soooooo fast. Can you imagine how stunning it will be with the full ram visible? awsome
This has definitely been an interesting read. I'm amazed at how quickly people dismiss objective information like tech sheets for their subjective observations.
So far it seems we have the following objective information.
1. There is a file within the O/S that reports approximately 404MB of memory free.
2. The release notes for the kernel version which is incorporated into Android 2.1 indicate that the kernel can't access more than 256MB of ram.
I propose the following theory...
The file which says there are 404MB is created by the hardware manufacturer, HTC in this case. Since all of their phones have different hardware configurations, there are different amounts of memory available to the kernel. These manufactures likely aren't recompiling the kernel for every phone, so it needs a way to tell the kernel how much memory is available. Upon initialization, the kernel accesses this file to determine the maximum amount of memory available. If this number is greater than the 256MB limit which seems to be in place for the current version of the kernel, a portion of it will sit idle.
This 404MB could represent the amount of RAM left over to the O/S after other pieces of hardware claim their memory requirements. For example, in a typical desktop computer, the video card has dedicated memory. It could be that the GPU reserves a portion of the memory which won't be available to the O/S. Hence, 512MB - GPU Memory - [Whatever other hardware] Memory = 404MB. Or maybe it's just the portion of memory left over after the O/S image is loaded into memory.
I'm not sure an argument that I'm running the same programs on this phone better that I ran on my old phone is a good argument to be telling anyone their "embarrassing themselves". There's several wild cards in that observation which can't be accounted for. For example...
1. Programs are constantly being updated. Can you be sure you're using the same versions of ALL the applications? Maybe one (or many) of the programs has been tweaked to use less memory, so it's not being closed by the O/S as often.
2. Different processors.
3. Obviously the SDRAM chips aren't the same in both devices since the memory amounts differ, so how can we be sure they have the same read/write times?
4. How much of the memory in the old phone was being used by the hardware or the O/S image? Since 404MB is greater than 256MB, the O/S on the Incredible has a full 256mb available for programs. What if the other phone had to allocate some of the 256mb to hardware or the O/S image meaning it only had 202MB available to the O/S for programs. Such a scenario would show that the DI has more memory available, but doesn't show it's utilizing the full 512MB. I guess this could easily be checked by looking at the file on the other phone.
Feel free to pick apart my theories, but bring objective information to the fight.
So far it seems we have the following objective information.
1. There is a file within the O/S that reports approximately 404MB of memory free.
2. The release notes for the kernel version which is incorporated into Android 2.1 indicate that the kernel can't access more than 256MB of ram.
I propose the following theory...
The file which says there are 404MB is created by the hardware manufacturer, HTC in this case. Since all of their phones have different hardware configurations, there are different amounts of memory available to the kernel. These manufactures likely aren't recompiling the kernel for every phone, so it needs a way to tell the kernel how much memory is available. Upon initialization, the kernel accesses this file to determine the maximum amount of memory available. If this number is greater than the 256MB limit which seems to be in place for the current version of the kernel, a portion of it will sit idle.
This 404MB could represent the amount of RAM left over to the O/S after other pieces of hardware claim their memory requirements. For example, in a typical desktop computer, the video card has dedicated memory. It could be that the GPU reserves a portion of the memory which won't be available to the O/S. Hence, 512MB - GPU Memory - [Whatever other hardware] Memory = 404MB. Or maybe it's just the portion of memory left over after the O/S image is loaded into memory.
I'm not sure an argument that I'm running the same programs on this phone better that I ran on my old phone is a good argument to be telling anyone their "embarrassing themselves". There's several wild cards in that observation which can't be accounted for. For example...
1. Programs are constantly being updated. Can you be sure you're using the same versions of ALL the applications? Maybe one (or many) of the programs has been tweaked to use less memory, so it's not being closed by the O/S as often.
2. Different processors.
3. Obviously the SDRAM chips aren't the same in both devices since the memory amounts differ, so how can we be sure they have the same read/write times?
4. How much of the memory in the old phone was being used by the hardware or the O/S image? Since 404MB is greater than 256MB, the O/S on the Incredible has a full 256mb available for programs. What if the other phone had to allocate some of the 256mb to hardware or the O/S image meaning it only had 202MB available to the O/S for programs. Such a scenario would show that the DI has more memory available, but doesn't show it's utilizing the full 512MB. I guess this could easily be checked by looking at the file on the other phone.
Feel free to pick apart my theories, but bring objective information to the fight.
This isn't the case. The file is generated upon boot of the operating system.
This can be easily proven by using the Android 1.6 / 2.6.29 kernel-based virtualbox appliance and changing the RAM upon boot.
512MB shows 512MB in /proc/meminfo, 768MB shows 768MB in /proc/meminfo.
Something funky is at work for it to show 404MB if 512MB is truly present.
Edit: I don't believe that HTC patched the kernel either. That's borderline silly. At this point I just want to know how/why it shows 404MB in meminfo when the Android VM shows the correct amount.
And the Froyo release notes & marketing materials clearly indicate that a feature is being able to address more than 256MB of memory.
However, I'm not totally surprised by the reaction of some of the people in this thread. It seems moreso here than any other phone forum I've posted at, people are almost religious about their phone purchase and take it up as a personal cause. Any sort of small slight is taken as I DON'T HAVE ANY PROBLEMS, STOP BEING A TROLL. Amusing at first, but annoying when you're trying to actually resolve problems.
However, I'm not totally surprised by the reaction of some of the people in this thread. It seems moreso here than any other phone forum I've posted at, people are almost religious about their phone purchase and take it up as a personal cause. Any sort of small slight is taken as I DON'T HAVE ANY PROBLEMS, STOP BEING A TROLL. Amusing at first, but annoying when you're trying to actually resolve problems.
IIRC, the HTC Desire is essentially a GSM Incredible. From what I recall, the Desire also has a very irregular amount of memory. Maybe it's a GSM vs CDMA thing.
Well crap. I worked hard on that theory.
The debate lives on, hopefully in a more intelligent manner like this.On a side note, I did email HTC about the debate. I wonder what sort of official response I'll get.
The least subjective"proof" I can muster is a screen shot from ATM showing over 256 mb free, which really isn't proof. I was kind if hoping we'd have a full explanation by now. As suggested earlier, maybe it's limited to 256mb ram, in addition to whatever memory is being utilized by the system. I would buy that.
And I'm sorry about the "don't embarrass yourself" comment, that was out of line. It just seems like there should be some technical document that would conclude this argument for sure, and nobody is providing it, yet there are plenty of absolute claims.
And I'm sorry about the "don't embarrass yourself" comment, that was out of line. It just seems like there should be some technical document that would conclude this argument for sure, and nobody is providing it, yet there are plenty of absolute claims.