Apple considering cheaper - and larger - Android-like phones...

[byteware]

You can't count on Apple to not do something. For example, many people thought that Apple would never switch to intel based on years of marketing that PPC was better than x86 and that cisc/unix was evil but Steve Jobs decided that it just made better sense. And the apple fans just went along with the new line. They said that multitasking was bad until they had it which means it is good. Maybe they'll even think that Flash and widgets are good ideas. They will do what it takes to win and we shouldn't be surprised if they contradict themselves.

I agree, but I think it's really against Apple's best interest right now to make their argument that buying an iPhone is better than buying Android, any harder than it already is.

Android will just have to do its part by innovating and staying ahead of everyone else. I think they will and not just on the hardware front where there is enormous competition but also on the OS front because Google is not worried if the OS is so simple that even a 90 year old grandma can use it.[/QUOTE]


My mother in law uses Android and she is absolutely electronics illiterate.

 

[byteware]

Apple makes a lot of money per item and some would argue that's more important than marketshare. But imagine this scenario: most smartphones are on android and none of them can get music from itunes. Google says "You don't need itunes. Google music will now be preinstalled on every new android phone/tablet." Apple loses its itunes dominance and has less leverage over prices.

Yes, Apple does make a lot of money per item sold, but that only matters if they are selling items. Once Android completely saturates the market, it will be hard to ignore it's technical superiority. Once it's generally accepted that Android is technically superior, then I don't see iOS remaining in the market.

 

[EarlyMon]

Saturation. Now there's a word.

If your model is to move iron and sell apps, then if you're ever truly successful at getting close to the goal of saturating a market, the less money you'll make. Income from market maintenance will exist, but it diminishes as well.

If you model is get platforms out there to serve as ad-delivery vehicles (ad-supported Android apps) then the closer you get to the goal of saturating a market, the more money you'll make. I'm presuming that Google gets a slice via AdMob of any ad revenue built-in to ad-supported apps. (I checked - Google's AdMob is evidently the preferred way for devs to ads into apps - but I could nothing about their revenue model without signing up for stuff, so I'm working with an assumption there.)

As for Apple having to turn back and be guilty of what they've slagged Android for and advertise it - I'm sure their PR volk are salivating at the chance, and their market will be willing. Examples that pop into my head, "While others give you confusion, we give you choice." Let's not forget that old saw - "How do you make the best even better? By making it even more carry-able, introducing the iPhone mini." Substitute whatever for carry-able and product name for mini - it's just a old formula, one they'll probably have no shame in using.

 

[A.Nonymous]

Yes, Apple does make a lot of money per item sold, but that only matters if they are selling items. Once Android completely saturates the market, it will be hard to ignore it's technical superiority. Once it's generally accepted that Android is technically superior, then I don't see iOS remaining in the market.

No one cares about technical superiority in the consumer market. Nerds care, but that's it. If technical superiority was what it was all about, we'd all be using computers with stripped down command line interfaces. Let's be honest, any GUI on a computer adds bloat and lag. Strip all of it away and have a computer with a command line only and you have something that will support all kinds of hardware with ease, run very, very quickly and is technically superior in so many ways to any computer with a gui. Problem is, no one wants that.

 

[EarlyMon]

Decreasing learning time, enhancing ease of use are also forms of technical superiority.

 

[A.Nonymous]

Decreasing learning time, enhancing ease of use are also forms of technical superiority.

All of which iOS kicks ass in. Just saying. If you want a smartphone that a trained monkey can use, you want an iPhone.

 

[byteware]

All of which iOS kicks ass in. Just saying. If you want a smartphone that a trained monkey can use, you want an iPhone.

I'll use this example, again, there are trained monkeys who can use a smartphone better than my mother in law, and Droid works fine for her.

Android is easy to use... it's not easy to use to it's FULLEST, but it's easy to use, and simple.

 

[Bob Maxey]

No one cares about technical superiority in the consumer market. Nerds care, but that's it. If technical superiority was what it was all about, we'd all be using computers with stripped down command line interfaces. Let's be honest, any GUI on a computer adds bloat and lag. Strip all of it away and have a computer with a command line only and you have something that will support all kinds of hardware with ease, run very, very quickly and is technically superior in so many ways to any computer with a gui. Problem is, no one wants that.

I remember the first version of Microsoft Word I owned. I loved it. It was DOS and it worked well. It was difficult to get graphics positioned properly, but I adapted.

I was a huge fan of DRDOS. Anyone remember that one? Digital Research did DOS right and it worked well for me.

I think the GUI is a bloated thing and I know computers might run faster without it. But I think I disagree that a command line is superior. But as you say, (paraphrase) there is Nerd Superior and Consumer Superior.

The consumer benefited greatly from a GUI and I think that is why Windows 3.1 and Windows For Workgroups became so popular. It made computers easy to use and that is definitely what consumers want.

Anyway, you nerds can always use Linux and lord it over us.

Smiley

Bob Maxey

 

[Bob Maxey]

Decreasing learning time, enhancing ease of use are also forms of technical superiority.

Short, to the point, well said.

I went through all kinds of stuff to find a replacement for DOS and then Windows. I fondly remember OS2 and how well it ran on my little PC. At the time, no DOS command could befuddle me and I still find the DOS prompt to be a friendly and comfortable place.

But a GUI makes it easy to work and that is the point of a computer for many of us. Get it done.

Bob Maxey

 

[Bob Maxey]

Yes, Apple does make a lot of money per item sold, but that only matters if they are selling items. Once Android completely saturates the market, it will be hard to ignore it's technical superiority. Once it's generally accepted that Android is technically superior, then I don't see iOS remaining in the market.

Perhaps. Or, Apple will release something so revolutionary and so cool and so insanely great, Android starts to lose market share. Or a couple of kids in a garage come up with something that kills them all.

Or Mr Jobs either retires or passes on and the new CEO/COO of Apple decides to release really cheap phones, or a line of different models, or adopts Android; changes their market strategy and their App Market, or something else and it is back to Apple dominance.

Android might come out on top, but to assume their popularity will continue is not a bet I would make. I might toss a few guilders on the Pass Line, but the deed to my house stays in the safety deposit box for now.

Bob Maxey

 

[Bob Maxey]

All of which iOS kicks ass in. Just saying. If you want a smartphone that a trained monkey can use, you want an iPhone.

When I bought my Zio, I opened the box, took it out, and turned it on. I set it up and then got my email. I looked at Youtube and I checked a client's web site. No info past the brief Welcome to Zio card and brief instructions which I never read.

When I wandered into an Apple Store, I picked up an iPhone. Worked just like the Zio. I pressed a few icons, and tried a few things to see how it works.

In both cases, there was no difference in ease of use. So I decided that ease of use is a non-starter because both are easy to use and both can befuddle some people. So I am confused when people tell me brand X is easier to use than brand Y.

Bob Maxey

 

[ElasticNinja]

Sorry Bob, but this:

Is certainly easier to use than this:

despite both having a GUI

 

[EarlyMon]

Please tell me again what that Sunflower does in the upper photo, without having to look it up or push it.

 

[Bob Maxey]

Sorry Bob, but this:

Is certainly easier to use than this:

despite both having a GUI

Not necessarily a good comparison. My Zio looked about the same in that there were icons in the screen that provided basic function, just like the iPhone you are showing. Mail, YouTube, messaging, web... all on my Zio.

The Androids were modified, apparently, to add things not usually on the Android Screen so it looks busy. BTW, I can immediately use those apps on the Android screens without any issues or problems.

Perhaps we will simply disagree and be done with it before this turns into an argument neither will win. Do not want a pissed Moderator, do we.

Bob Maxey

 

[EarlyMon]

Argue as much and as passionately as you like.

Just stay within the Da Rules and I've got no kick.

 

[ElasticNinja]

Please tell me again what that Sunflower does in the upper photo, without having to look it up or push it.

plant nutrition management app?

 

[Bob Maxey]

Please tell me again what that Sunflower does in the upper photo, without having to look it up or push it.

It says Photos so I made an educated guess that it opens my photos. When I pressed my sunflower, that is what happened.

Bob Maxey

 

[EarlyMon]

I forgot it said photos - and probably I'm just info-hard, but I've often pressed that one accidentally.

 

[Bob Maxey]

I forgot it said photos - and probably I'm just info-hard, but I've often pressed that one accidentally.

OK, forgive this, but what is your view EarlyMon? Are you saying the Sunflower icon is confusing? My Zio says "Gallery" but I figured that one out immediately, too.

Just do not want to assume something.

Bob Maxey

 

[Bob Maxey]

plant nutrition management app?

No, iTunes link to wholesale supplier of iSeeds. Insanely Great Taste, Insanely Great Price.

Bob Maxey

 

[EarlyMon]

OK, forgive this, but what is your view EarlyMon? Are you saying the Sunflower icon is confusing? My Zio says "Gallery" but I figured that one out immediately, too.

Just do not want to assume something.

Well, honestly, it is, it matches the logo of one of our local natural food markets - it's always confused me.

The HTC photo gallery icon is a two-level deal, with a little album in the background, and a white-bordered photo up front. And, you can get to also via the Camera app (icon looks like like an old 35) with an extra button press.

My wife uses the HTC live photo gallery widget, it takes up a full screen, and your can shuffle through your photos on the desktop.

It's my eyesight, Bob - when I have my regular glasses on for driving or functioning in the world, that little writing below the icons is often just video noise to me - and while I own Van Gogh prints, I just don't associate a sunflower with a photo gallery.

When I'm using one of the company iPhones, I have to go by rapid recognition of icons -- it's never been my everyday phone, so I'm always having to adjust and change gears when I pick one up.

 

[ElasticNinja]

I'm personally used to the icons as I used iPhone themes on my two Symbain phones for about a year cumulatively
they are purdy icons

 

[Bob Maxey]

Well, honestly, it is, it matches the logo of one of our local natural food markets - it's always confused me.

The HTC photo gallery icon is a two-level deal, with a little album in the background, and a white-bordered photo up front. And, you can get to also via the Camera app (icon looks like like an old 35) with an extra button press.

My wife uses the HTC live photo gallery widget, it takes up a full screen, and your can shuffle through your photos on the desktop.

It's my eyesight, Bob - when I have my regular glasses on for driving or functioning in the world, that little writing below the icons is often just video noise to me - and while I own Van Gogh prints, I just don't associate a sunflower with a photo gallery.

When I'm using one of the company iPhones, I have to go by rapid recognition of icons -- it's never been my everyday phone, so I'm always having to adjust and change gears when I pick one up.

I have the same problems EarlyMon. I should wear glasses but up close, they are terrible. I still have no problems with details close up. I can solder fine pitch components with the best of them.

Funny how changing icons can make it harder to use the phone. We get use to one thing and then it takes time to relearn.

Bob Maxey

 

[EarlyMon]

That, and my laptop is a Mac, running at any given time a full screen of Windows, Linux processes - or Mac. And the iPhone gallery icon simply doesn't match the Mac desktop icons for Preview, Photo Booth, or iPhoto - so - I get confused.

I get cognitive dissonance trying to map that sunflower to the photo concept or to other Apple icons I'm familiar with.

And yeah, I've got a second pair of glasses - I even use them sometimes. More often, I just don't have them on for close-up work.

For me - if the icon doesn't cut it right off, or I can't learn it (I don't think I fit the terribly dumb category) - and I have to resort to reading its name more than once, more than four times - it's a fail.