AT&T, Captivate and the BBB

[Buddha64]

So, I submitted a complaint to the Better Business Bureau after such lousy customer service from AT&T over the Captivates GPS problem, and the fact that they continued to sell a known defective phone.

Honestly, I didn't expect any resolution, especially with what I asked for: that AT&T refund the cost of the phone ($150), and cancel my 2 yr contract with them ASAP - with no early termination charges (would have been $245). Really, I just I wanted that complaint in the system.

Anyway, an AT&T rep just called, asked what they could do to keep me as a customer. A new phone was the only real enticement (but no, I don't want an Atrix or an iPhone, thank you). I told them I was just so disappointed in how I was treated by their customer service, and how unethical (yes, unethical) it was to sell a device with a known fault and then give the purchaser only 30 days to find the fault. "I mean, I understand the purpose of the 30 day window, but damn it, this phone has a known issue and you shouldn't make it my fault for not finding the issue in that window," says I.

She mumbled something about all the complaints they are getting about the Captivate, especially in reference to the GPS, and how customer service isn't handling issues with this phone correctly.

Well, I am getting the purchase price refunded. And while they aren't canceling my contract, they are moving it to the month-by-month plan... which effectively eliminates any termination fees if/when I cancel the account - which will be as soon as I get back from the cruise my wife and I are going on for our 25th Anniversary. (Yeah, bitches... 25 years.)

Be persistent...

 

[RavenFox]

Your last line was the real shocker. lol I kid. Congrats on a lasting marriage. God knows those are rare these days. Also, glad to hear on your AT&T good fortune.

 

[pac0naut]

Wow....sounds like a good deal!

 

[snapper.fishes]

So, I submitted a complaint to the Better Business Bureau after such lousy customer service from AT&T over the Captivates GPS problem, and the fact that they continued to sell a known defective phone.

Honestly, I didn't expect any resolution, especially with what I asked for: that AT&T refund the cost of the phone ($150), and cancel my 2 yr contract with them ASAP - with no early termination charges (would have been $245). Really, I just I wanted that complaint in the system.

Anyway, an AT&T rep just called, asked what they could do to keep me as a customer. A new phone was the only real enticement (but no, I don't want an Atrix or an iPhone, thank you). I told them I was just so disappointed in how I was treated by their customer service, and how unethical (yes, unethical) it was to sell a device with a known fault and then give the purchaser only 30 days to find the fault. "I mean, I understand the purpose of the 30 day window, but damn it, this phone has a known issue and you shouldn't make it my fault for not finding the issue in that window," says I.

She mumbled something about all the complaints they are getting about the Captivate, especially in reference to the GPS, and how customer service isn't handling issues with this phone correctly.

Well, I am getting the purchase price refunded. And while they aren't canceling my contract, they are moving it to the month-by-month plan... which effectively eliminates any termination fees if/when I cancel the account - which will be as soon as I get back from the cruise my wife and I are going on for our 25th Anniversary. (Yeah, bitches... 25 years.)

Be persistent...

Congratulations!

You are now as old as my parents

 

[Buddha64]

Congratulations!

You are now as old as my parents

Honestly, I'm more excited about the prospect of a new phone (with front facing camera and working GPS) than I am about a 25th Anniversary cruise. But I haven't stayed married this long by announcing such things.

 

[Dante04SRT]

Did you ever attempt a custom ROM? While I can certainly understand your frustration with AT&T for continuing to sell a device with known GPS issues, the custom ROMs do (for the most part) an excellent job of giving us working GPS.

I feel almost liberated from AT&T with these ROMs. I'm not bogged down by bloatware, tethering restrictions, GPS issues, or that boring stock-feel.

Of course, I certainly do understand if you didn't want to go that route; It's not for everybody - But the Captivate really is a great phone, unfortunately, you just have to fix it yourself BEFORE it becomes that 'great phone'.

<--- Flashing ROMs like a mad man; But loving my Cappy more and more because of it. FYI - My GPS never worked when stock, but is great now on a custom ROM.

 

[Buddha64]

Did you ever attempt a custom ROM?

<--- Flashing ROMs like a mad man; But loving my Cappy more and more because of it. FYI - My GPS never worked when stock, but is great now on a custom ROM.

I'm an enginerd - electrical - so I'm all for customizing my electronics. I've considered custom ROMs, but didn't want the possible warranty hassle

1) Time. I don't have a lot of time to mess with flashing new ROMs. If one doesn't work, then I have to flash another. And if that one isn't what I want, then another. Seems a real waste of time.

2) Unfamiliar territory. ROMs, modems, kernels... There's a tonne of info out there, it's just not coherently presented. Which ROM works best with which modem? Should I mix and match, or just choose a "stock" ROM? Do I even know what any of that means? (Yes, I know what ROM, modem, and kernel means in the broad context of electronics and SW, but in the context that they are used in these forums, I reckon I ain't that confident that I knows what they means.)

3) The phone is relatively new, and a lot of these custom ROMs are hack jobs with more flaws than fixes.

4) Which one?

 

[Buddha64]

And on the plus side, I can trade the phone in to Verizon and get a gift card for $72.

Some restrictions may apply: "Verizon Wireless gift cards may only be used at Verizon Wireless owned and operated retail locations or for on-line purchases. Gift cards can also be used to pay a Verizon Wireless bill (OneBill

 

[bimmeric]

Any advice on how to get AT&T to let me switch my captivate for something else (Inspire or Atrix)? I've had 3 captivates in a row, and all 3 have had the self shutdown issue and crappy GPS. I have ZERO faith that a fourth will not have the same problems, yet I know that if I call AT&T all they will do is offer me another crappy refurb. I'd like to stay on AT&T (the cell tower is on the same hill I live on so I get 5 bars all the time) but I'm just so fed up with the captivate.

 

[Dante04SRT]

I'm an enginerd - electrical - so I'm all for customizing my electronics. I've considered custom ROMs, but didn't want the possible warranty hassle

1) Time. I don't have a lot of time to mess with flashing new ROMs. If one doesn't work, then I have to flash another. And if that one isn't what I want, then another. Seems a real waste of time.

That's the small price you pay for "custom" - Custom is tailored for you; so yes, it can take some time. (~1hour to flash to stock and then flash the ROM).

2) Unfamiliar territory. ROMs, modems, kernels... There's a tonne of info out there, it's just not coherently presented. Which ROM works best with which modem? Should I mix and match, or just choose a "stock" ROM? Do I even know what any of that means? (Yes, I know what ROM, modem, and kernel means in the broad context of electronics and SW, but in the context that they are used in these forums, I reckon I ain't that confident that I knows what they means.)

Been there - The info is somewhat scattered and overly cluttered at XDA. That said, MOST of the 2.2 ROMs install the same way, so literally, you just download the .zip file and copy it to the phone; the install process is virtually the same for each.

As for the kernels - different kernels do different things. The custom ROMs each have their own kernels, which are included in the .zip file for the ROM. You don't have to know anything about kernels to install the ROMs. That comes later if you decide you need a specific "custom" feature, want to overclock the CPU, etc. No need to worry at all about them initially - I am one that doesn't change the kernels at all.

On to the modems - There again, the term may look complicated (as it pertains to the ROMs), but it is VERY simple. Basically, there are like 25+ modems that are used throughout the Galaxy-S lineup. If you are stock, you are most likely running JH7 or KB1 (you can check by going into Settings and then About Phone. You'll see it listed in the "Baseband" field. Custom ROMs come with a certain modem included, but you can change it at anytime - If you prefer to use the stock modem and it's not included in the custom ROM you are running, you can just download the modem .ZIP file and flash it to the phone - Its VERY easy to do! No matter which ROM I use I prefer the JK4 modem. So again, nothing really complicated there. Most ANY modem works with any ROM (there are some exceptions, but not worth noting at this point).

3) The phone is relatively new, and a lot of these custom ROMs are hack jobs with more flaws than fixes.

No disrespect, but this makes me laugh. Having not tried them, how can you say that? I would advise you to check out XDA at Samsung Captivate - xda-developers and check out the various ROMs. Also, if you've not seen them before, check out MobileTechVideos Captivate ROM Reviews. These ROM reviews actually show you how the ROM looks (theme/function wise) and gives information on their performance. I've tried many of the custom ROMs out there and have yet to find one that didn't at least MATCH Samsung in terms of functionality (well, except the GPS usually works!). Most of the ROMs out there are based on 2.2 from a device in the Samsung Galaxy-S line of phones. CM7 is an exception, but that's a whole 'nother thread.

Another note worth mentioning - Some people are leary of flashing ROMs because they've been paralyzed with fear of bricking the phone - An $8-$10 "jig" is worth the money. It solves MOST of the issues when people think they are bricked.

Oh, and as far as warranty is concerned... At any time, you can flash completely back to stock and Samsung has NO way to tell if your phone has been altered.

BOTTOM LINE:

Unless your Captivate has the random shut down issues, there is NO reason to ditch it simply because the GPS doesn't work in stock form - There is WAAAAAYYYY too much development happening with this phone to simple ditch it. As far as I'm concerned, until the development dries up, I'm sticking with this phone as it is simply AWESOME.

 

[jpovis]

I love the custom ROMs, have never and will never attempt to load the "official" Froyo. Why waste my time?
My phone does what I want it to do, and not what they allow me to do.

 

[Thare187]

So, I submitted a complaint to the Better Business Bureau after such lousy customer service from AT&T over the Captivates GPS problem, and the fact that they continued to sell a known defective phone.

Honestly, I didn't expect any resolution, especially with what I asked for: that AT&T refund the cost of the phone ($150), and cancel my 2 yr contract with them ASAP - with no early termination charges (would have been $245). Really, I just I wanted that complaint in the system.

Anyway, an AT&T rep just called, asked what they could do to keep me as a customer. A new phone was the only real enticement (but no, I don't want an Atrix or an iPhone, thank you). I told them I was just so disappointed in how I was treated by their customer service, and how unethical (yes, unethical) it was to sell a device with a known fault and then give the purchaser only 30 days to find the fault. "I mean, I understand the purpose of the 30 day window, but damn it, this phone has a known issue and you shouldn't make it my fault for not finding the issue in that window," says I.

She mumbled something about all the complaints they are getting about the Captivate, especially in reference to the GPS, and how customer service isn't handling issues with this phone correctly.

Well, I am getting the purchase price refunded. And while they aren't canceling my contract, they are moving it to the month-by-month plan... which effectively eliminates any termination fees if/when I cancel the account - which will be as soon as I get back from the cruise my wife and I are going on for our 25th Anniversary. (Yeah, bitches... 25 years.)

Be persistent...

Could you please post a link as to where you filed the complaint and what you wrote. Thanks.

 

[Buddha64]

Could you please post a link as to where you filed the complaint and what you wrote. Thanks.

Sure... United States and Canada BBB Consumer and Business Reviews, Reports, Ratings, Complaints and Accredited Business Listings

The main site asks for your zip code and directs you to a regional office.

There are some form screens (name, address, who the complaint is against). When it came to the complaint I put this:

I purchased this model phone (SGH-I897ZKAATT, aka Samsung Captivate) on 29 September 2010.

At that time one of the many features advertised on the phone was a Global Positioning System (GPS).

The GPS on the Captivate phone does not work as advertised. It: 1) does not lock onto satellites consistently and accurately. 2) on rare occasions when satellite lock is achieved, it does not maintain lock which could cause significant safety issues if this device is used for navigation.

In email correspondence with an AT&T representative this morning (3/11/2011) I was informed that AT&T was aware that the GPS in the Captivate was defective as early as 29 July 2010 - a full two months before I purchased the phone - yet when I purchased the phone, no mention of the defect was made.

AT&T has maintained that I had 30 days to return the phone after purchase. However, if AT&T had been forthcoming from the very beginning about the defect with the phone, I would not have made the purchase. Instead, I find out that the GPS is defective outside the 30 day return window when I actually attempt to use the device for what it was advertised as being able to do.

Not the most eloquent turn of phrase, but it got the job done.

 

[bimmeric]

Sure... United States and Canada BBB Consumer and Business Reviews, Reports, Ratings, Complaints and Accredited Business Listings

The main site asks for your zip code and directs you to a regional office.

There are some form screens (name, address, who the complaint is against). When it came to the complaint I put this:



Not the most eloquent turn of phrase, but it got the job done.

I think I may take this route. I've gone through three Captivates, and all three had poor GPS and the shutdown bug. When my 2nd Captivate exhibited the shut down bug I made it clear I would like to switch to a different phone, yet they insisted I had the right to do that in a 30 day window and that all they could do was offer me a refurb. I took the refurb and within 2 weeks the shut down bug reared it's ugly head and GPS never worked well (could get a lock in a reasonable amount of time, but not accurate enough to give directions while driving). Frankly the thought of having to go to a fourth captivate is ridiculous and another refurb of a phone that AT&T knows is defective is not acceptable. I have no faith that a fourth captivate will not exhibit the issues the previous 3 had and I don't think it's unreasonable to switch to a different device after multiple faulty replacements. AT&T knows the shutdown bug is a common problem, yet you only have a 30 day window to return the device and sometimes it isn't clear it's defective until much longer than that (my 2nd phone went 2 months before it started turning itself off multiple times a day).

 

[Buddha64]

I think I may take this route. ...

As mentioned in another post... (http://androidforums.com/samsung-captivate/298924-anyone-know-how-redeem-warranty.html) ...I put in a "Request Repair" at the Samsung site (I registered my phone the day I bought it) complaining about the GPS.

I got a call from a "technician" the next day. She started in trying to troubleshoot the phone (over the phone... ironic really), but basically I stopped her, said I have done everything possible including multiple "factory resets" as advised by AT&T, ran their GPS Restore program, etc., etc., to no avail. The GPS refuses to maintain lock, blah, blah.

After less than five mintues she had given me an RMA#, and instructions where to send the phone (all unnecessary as they also have UPS send you a 2nd Day Air mailing label with address).

I was without the phone for the repair period - over a week now (I was notified that the phone was repaired and is waiting for UPS to pick it up) but if it works, I will have gotten it for free and gotten out of an expensive (to cancel) contract, all because AT&T was not completely honest and ethical in their business dealings..

 

[gcobb]

It took me less time to fix my GPS problem than it would have been for me to complain and talk to people on the phone. But whatever works.

 

[robhs]

It took me less time to fix my GPS problem than it would have been for me to complain and talk to people on the phone. But whatever works.

This is the what aggrevates me the most. The Captivate is capable of being a great device, but the customer has to make it that way. So many times I have read "it work great if you root, flash a rom, etc....". As a customer, my job is to pay for the phone, which I did. It is not my job to make the thing work as promised.

Don't get me wrong, I am finally reasonably happy with my Captivate. But that is only because of the information and advice I got from forums like this.

 

[darkrequiem]

I totally agree with you on what you said robhs...that is why I am done with Samsung as a whole....I mean it is fine for those who know or WANT to do this...but you should NOT have to...it is not what you are paying for....

 

[Bish0p34]

I've tried the GPS fix, and a few versions of Cognition on my Captivate. The GPS has never worked well after any solutions...it just sucks on this phone. I still love the phone though.

 

[Buddha64]

It took me less time to fix my GPS problem than it would have been for me to complain and talk to people on the phone. But whatever works.

Well, good for you. Some of us have tried everything to no avail, and complaining to the idiots who sold it to me was the last option. I would rather have had a working phone.

So come fix mine as well - put up or shut up.

BTW - even after getting it back from Samsung Repair, the GPS still doesn't do shit.

 

[Buddha64]

Don't get me wrong, I am finally reasonably happy with my Captivate. But that is only because of the information and advice I got from forums like this.

Unfortunately, not always does that information or advice work.

 

[gcobb]

Unfortunately, not always does that information or advice work.

Nor does everyone who has problems have the patience to resolve the issues.

 

[Aatos.1]

BOTTOM LINE:

Unless your Captivate has the random shut down issues, there is NO reason to ditch it simply because the GPS doesn't work in stock form - There is WAAAAAYYYY too much development happening with this phone to simple ditch it. As far as I'm concerned, until the development dries up, I'm sticking with this phone as it is simply AWESOME.

Kudos for a great post!

I am 100% happy with my Captivate. I've chosen to not root it, but rather optimize it for my needs. In doing so, I experience excellent battery life and Swype is the very best touch screen input system I've ever used. Super fast fun & easy, like Android itself, I think far too many people give up before learning that it's a _different OS_ which requires the user to educate themselves if they want to truly enjoy it's advantages.

Compared to my iPhone 4, my Android phones are my preferred smartphones by a wide margin. The things one can do with Android is endless. To date I've not had any unresolved issues of consequence. A great testimony to the platform. Especially as much as I travel internationally, the GSM standard is ideal.

 

[allambition]

AT&T knows the shutdown bug is a common problem, yet you only have a 30 day window to return the device and sometimes it isn't clear it's defective until much longer than that (my 2nd phone went 2 months before it started turning itself off multiple times a day).

You can fix the shutdown bug with an app -
https://market.android.com/details?id=org.bluesteel.cka

I've had issues with the GPS too, even with a custom ROM. When I first got it the GPS worked fine then it suddenly started having problems.

Buddha64 - Good for you for standing up to AT&T, most people don't have the guts to do it. If you complain loud enough you can usually get your problem fixed it seems AT&T isn't completely evil like some people think, just a big company with typical big company problems - look at Microsoft now, they have a lot of the same problems and are a younger company.