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Beck: Obama Will Blame Terror Attack On TSA Resistance...
- Thread starter X10iUser
- Start date
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electric monk
Guest
Proof that racial profiling works, plz.
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Dark Jedi
Guest
So just because a US citizen that has the unfortunate luck being of middle eastern decent. Its ok to walk all over his civil rights. To presume he is guilty until proven innocent. Well in your eyes they are all guilty because of their looks and color of their skin. Do you feel the same about asian males of the same age group because of the bombing of Pearl harbor?I guess in a vain attempt to pull this bus back from the cliff...
My thought is, until further notice, all males, age 14-45, of middle eastern descent, are subject to full body searches upon attempting to board any flight that will land in the US. And they get to carry all of their belongings for the trip in one small, clear Ziploc bag that shows all of the contents plainly.
Its not racial profiling or discrimination. Its targeting the suspects.
Unless someone has been hiding the info, there is yet to be an attempt to bring down a passenger plane, successful or otherwise, that wasn't done by a male of middle eastern descent.
6-year old black girls and 89 year old jewish grandmothers (or white guys, dumb rednecks, and possibly even Glenn Beck) are not on the list of known international terrorists. They shouldn't be subjected to this humiliation and invasion of basic civil rights, until they prove to be a threat to the rest of ours. Since the male middle eastern population has demonstrated this willingness, I am more than happy to support a reduction in their civil rights while in our country or attempting to enter it.
A few bad apples don't make the bushel bad.
I find your statement racist at best.
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Dark Jedi
Guest
Anyone can join their cause be it white, black, Hispanic, Asian, and so on.
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electric monk
Guest
Well said.
See also: Richard Reid & John Walker Lindh
See also: Richard Reid & John Walker Lindh
copestag
Android Expert
6-year old black girls and 89 year old jewish grandmothers (or white guys, dumb rednecks, and possibly even Glenn Beck
while I would agree that the whole mess has gone a bit too far with the security....... I dont think profiling is in any way an answer
I want to make sure I have your side straight though....... you suggest its better to wait until more innocent people die before we expand any security checks to the groups their murderers belong to?
btw.... the shoe bomber had a white mother and jamaican father...... he would slip right through the profile (his appearance is that of a white strung out biker)....... also if Im not mistaken several attempts or successful bombings have been carried out by nigerians (whose appearance is that of other black males)...... and jose padilla was hispanic (whose appearance is hispanic)....... there have been a few white males (whose appearance is that of a white male) who are known to be helping the taliban....... yes they were all practicing muslims but you arent able to profile on religious beliefs by looking at a person..... every one of these people would be able to bypass airport security if we used profiling
on the flip side of the coin...... its in the news that Fergie (of the Black Eyed Peas) had to go through a full body scan..... I dont personally listen to her music..... but Im sure even those who think it sucks would say that shes probably not smuggling bombs on a plane........ nor was the elderly white nun who was frisked by a muslim TSA worker (hows that for irony)
mike114
Well-Known Member
Profiling does work when used in conjunction with other techniques so I don't think it's racist at all. If you're trying to hunt down KKK members or skinheads, if you don't profile you are wasting your time if you are looking at muslims or african americans.
How about we use bomb sniffing dogs and have trained personnel interview people the way Isreal does? Of course, there aren't millions of dollars to be made in dogs, and they really can't be unionized so scratch that idea.
How about we use bomb sniffing dogs and have trained personnel interview people the way Isreal does? Of course, there aren't millions of dollars to be made in dogs, and they really can't be unionized so scratch that idea.
copestag
Android Expert
yes profiling does work when you are looking for a specific group of people......... in this case it could be anyone....... we know that most terrorist threats are coming from muslims......... do you think you could pick one out of the crowd....... the overwhelming majority of attempts or successes so far would have easily slipped right through the profiling based on being muslim......... not all muslims wear a turban and ride camels......
I dont think profiling is a bad idea because of racism........ profiling is very effective in many cases....... I think its a bad idea because its very ineffective in this particular case....... because profiling will not target the people who are most likely to be the terrorists..... as I pointed out in my earlier post....... what should the profile include exactly? anyone who is white, hispanic, black, or arabic? I guess this is good news for asians...... but for everyone else wouldnt this be exactly what we already have........ theyre simply acting on the obvious.... EVERYONE fits the profile
as for comparing to Israel.... JFK alone has about 15 times as many people travel through as Israel does in a year......and thats 1 airport.... let me put that in perspective.... when you break it down to 24/7/365...... JFK services a little over 5000 people per hour.... Israel services a little over 300 people per hour....... 300 people is a little easier to have tight security with vs 5000 wouldnt you say?
I dont think profiling is a bad idea because of racism........ profiling is very effective in many cases....... I think its a bad idea because its very ineffective in this particular case....... because profiling will not target the people who are most likely to be the terrorists..... as I pointed out in my earlier post....... what should the profile include exactly? anyone who is white, hispanic, black, or arabic? I guess this is good news for asians...... but for everyone else wouldnt this be exactly what we already have........ theyre simply acting on the obvious.... EVERYONE fits the profile
as for comparing to Israel.... JFK alone has about 15 times as many people travel through as Israel does in a year......and thats 1 airport.... let me put that in perspective.... when you break it down to 24/7/365...... JFK services a little over 5000 people per hour.... Israel services a little over 300 people per hour....... 300 people is a little easier to have tight security with vs 5000 wouldnt you say?
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Dark Jedi
Guest
Beings people don't know the definition of racial profiling. So here you go.
Now say your comments of profiling isn't racial motivated.
Love how people don't see a problem with it just as long as it isn't their race being targeted.
Also with a skin head they would be bragging about what they did as they don't give a crap what anyone's think. They wear it as a badge of honor.
LaTuFu
Android Expert
Its amazing how quickly people will toss the race card when they don't have a reasonable response.
If it was a blanket "all middle eastern people" statement, then yes, you can absolutely say its racial profiling. I am saying focus more attention on young males of middle eastern descent than other racial/ethnic/gender/age brackets. Based solely on their actions in previous incidents. Not because they don't look like me.
Profiling occurs every single day in every single facet of our society. Why its suddenly "bad" when the word "racial" is put in front of it is ironic to me. People of every age and ethnic group discriminate every minute of every day. When you choose to buy a Mercedes instead of a BMW because that's what the people in your neighborhood view as a status symbol car, you made a discriminatory choice. When you buy a house in a certain neighborhood because of the school district or the fitness trails around it, you made a discriminatory choice. When you jump in your car and go down to the local sports bar and hang out, rather than the hip hop club 3 blocks away, you made a discriminatory choice.
When someone robs a liquor store, the cops don't go shaking down every person on the street looking for the perp. They go looking for the "white male, approx 6 ft tall, 180 lbs, wearing dark shirt and pants" that witnesses described to them.
I will be the first to admit that this would not 100% solve the problem, but it would go a long way towards demonstrating to our enemies that we are willing to respond to their threats.
I have nothing personal against anyone of any race, religion or ethnic background. Never have, never will. I care nothing about the color of your skin--onlythe integrity of the heart inside.
The minute you adopt a belief system that calls for the demise of me and my family on a daily basis, I have a problem with you. I don't care if you're plaid or chartreuse at that point. I care that you want to see my family dead, and will do everything in my power to make sure that you meet your maker before my family meets mine.
Whorled Peas, ya'll.
LaTuFu
Android Expert
oh look he doesn't fit the profile of a person of middle eastern decent. But he joined one of those terrorist groups. I guess your as you say profiling doesn't work after all.
Anyone can join their cause be it white, black, Hispanic, Asian, and so on.
Agreed, and thank you for pointing out the exception to my statement. I was aware of his background when I wrote my earlier statement, but didn't take the time to clarify that.
Just to put in perspective where my point is coming from:
TWA Flight 847. June 14, 1985. Hijackers: Lebanese Shia Extremists, all in their early 20s at the time of the attack. Several were involved in later attacks and hijackings. One US Navy Diver was beaten, tortured, and shot before his body was thrown onto the tarmac. The hijackers deliberately singled out passengers with Jewish names for hostages. Robert Dean Stethem was singled out for being in the US Military. The hijackers apparently thought profiling was an effective method for them.
TWA Flight 840. April 2, 1986. 4 Americans killed when Libyan terrorists detonated a bomb inside the plane. It was later discovered that a female member of the Arab Revolutionary Cells planted the bomb under a seat. Chalk one up that would have been missed by the "all male" profiling.
Pan AM Flight 103. December 21, 1988. 259 passengers and crew died, along with 11 civilians on the ground in Lockerbie, Scotland. Two separate Iranian and Syrian backed terrorist groups are suspected to have planted the bomb.
This list continues on, and I have left out attacks on airplanes that were not connected to the US, flying to the US, or failed attempts that were discovered. Even when those are included it does not skew the results: the vast majority of attacks on airlines, hijackings, and attempted attacks are conducted by young males of middle eastern descent.
If your house was being robbed on a monthly basis, and your neighbors told you it was a middle-aged, Asian looking female who was seen in the neighborhood around the time of each robbery...would you want the cops spending an equal amount of time tracking down the young middle eastern men in the area, or would you want them to focus more on the older asian women?
The FBI has profiling down to a science to track down serial killers and psychopaths, nobody seems to have a problem with that. Even though those people tend to be overwhelmingly middle-aged white men. Why is that not illegal and discriminatory?
LaTuFu
Android Expert
What kind of proof would you like? I can give examples of cases where profiling was used to find the perpetrator. Most of the examples, however, would probably end up being white men of european descent, so I doubt the "race" card would be thrown out there. Apparently that group is the only ethnic group its okay to discriminate against.
Ted Bundy was interviewed by the FBI to help develop profiles for later serial killer investigations. He was also interviewed by local authorities trying to develop a profile to help them capture the Green River Killer.
I'm sure any number of convenience store, liquor store, and bank hold-ups wouldn't have been solved without the prof--I'm sorry, the description, of the suspect.
Remove the "racial" from your statement and suddenly its a reasonable law enforcement tool.
Being as people don't understand the definition of "profiling". Here we go.
freedictionary.com said:
Race is but one factor in profiling. It's neither eliminates people (non-muslims) nor convicts people (muslims). It is simply a weighted factor (well... because nearly all of the terrorists attempting to attack the US are muslims) in the profile of someone who wants to do harm to the US via an airplane.
Train people to properly profile, and you can all but do away with metal detectors at airports.
The TSA needs to be reworked from the top down before the organization can even begin to be effective.
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Dark Jedi
Guest
One I didn't throw a race card. Two there's a difference between having a description of a certain person you are looking for and just saying pull every male of a certain race. Thats like throwing shit on a wall and see what sticks. Ask any lawyer what happens when you single out people of a certain race. They will say that's against the law and is considered racial profiling.
You say you have nothing against people of other races but you do seem to have a problem with male people of middle eastern decent when they are in an airport.
LaTuFu
Android Expert
Which one is it? You can't have it both ways.
I'm not advocating grabbing every person of middle eastern descent, like the US did to the Japanese in WWII. I'm saying exercise additional scrutiny towards a population segment that has demonstrated a willingness to attack our society. Young males of middle eastern descent, approx. age 14-45.
You missed a key part of what I said about YOUNG male people of middle eastern descent, hanging around an airport:
"The minute you adopt a belief system that calls for the demise of me and my family on a daily basis, I have a problem with you. I don't care if you're plaid or chartreuse at that point. I care that you want to see my family dead, and will do everything in my power to make sure that you meet your maker before my family meets mine."
If a Christian extremist group, made up largely of wheelchair bound fat white guys, suddenly began bombing Wal-Mart sporting goods departments around the country, in the name of their God, you can bet your a** I would be wary of every fat white guy in a rascal at Wal-Mart, too.
I am not racist. I am pragmatic.
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Dark Jedi
Guest
Sorry once you put middle eastern decent in it. it turns in to racial profiling. You can justify it anyway you want but in the end your statement is racial profiling. Why not just say all males 14 to 45? You don't think your statement would upset a middle eastern male 14 to 45? Do you think they like how the terrorists has made their lives a living hell because if their actions?
Love how you justify what you said is different from what the government did during WWII. its the same thing you want to do. You can say I play the race card all you want but it isn't the case. You can't deflect that your statement is of a racial tone.
LaTuFu
Android Expert
Its not racist, but its clear you will never grasp the concept. I'll move on from here.
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Dark Jedi
Guest
No you can't grasp that is racial profiling. Closet racist maybe? Most racist don't realize they are one because they feel their comments are not racial stereotypes.
LaTuFu
Android Expert
No. You're using a logical fallacy to support an argument that you already formed in your mind when the first statement was made.
You refuse to acknowledge any other statements that disprove your arguments, instead resorting to name calling and/or accusatory statements in an effort to make me admit defeat.
In other words, you won't see any other conclusion other than the hasty generalization you formed 20 replies ago. Therefore, its a waste of our time to continue debating it. Good day, sir.
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Dark Jedi
Guest
Ok your exact words profile middle eastern males age 14 to 45. What about black males of the same age range, or Asian, white, Hispanic and so on? You wont answer like you never do. As you know its racial profiling . Its there in black and white multiple times you posted it.
I wasn't name calling. I was stating fact from what I have read from your posts. You can sugar coat it all you want but any court of law will tell you your statement of profiling middle eastern men ages 14 to 45 is indeed racial profiling and treads on their civil rights.
You are so for taking away their rights just because they are of the same race as the terrorists that caused 9/11. While at the sane time you cry I will be damned if the government takes away my rights and subject me to illegal searches.
How are you any different from the government? Oh that's right beings they look like a terrorist so they can't be up to no good. so they should have all their rights taken away.
You know maybe they subject all races to the same random searches so your middle eastern people can't say racial profiling.
I do know one thing if I was flying and I saw you refuse to be searched. I would worry what does that guy have to hide. I wouldn't want you on the plane I was flying on.
So I am fine with you not posting on my posts. Truth hurts don't it LOL. I know you will reply. Just because I know your type on these forums. Can't stand for anyone but yourself to be right. After all you said it in the previous post you wasn't replying any more. But yet you did. How can we take you to be a man of your word when you break it?
Using race as a weighted factor (not only factor, just a weighted factor), when the majority of people you are looking for are a specific race... isn't racism. It's common sense.
For instance, if 90% of your aggressive dog incidents are from pit bulls, it doesn't make any sense to not take a little longer look at pit bulls when you see them. That doesn't mean you ignore all of the other breeds, because every breed has aggressive dogs.
Admitting and reacting to facts is not racism. If there had never been a terrorist attack, and we put extra scrutiny on Muslims, that would be racism. Putting extra scrutiny on Muslims when 90% of all attempted (and successful) terrorist attacks on US aircraft have been by Muslims, is responding to factual evidence.
Ignoring that 90% of our threats come from Muslims is idiotic and dangerous, and all in the name of being PC.