Call Me Crazy!!

[Devinclfalcons]

Forum users are generally more intelligent than the average person out there. This is why very few on the forums are getting the laptop dock; and the people who are probably have money to spend.

Honestly, the laptop dock is pointless IMO for at least 2 more years until the technology progresses.

With that said, you guys don't understand people's stupidity . Marketing + a desire to have the "newest" thing WILL make the laptop dock sell like hotcakes.

Except that 500 bucks is soo ridiculous a price that people will at least suspect that they can get something better with half a grand of money hahahaha

 

[colnago]

No but it wouldn't make a lot of sense not to make it compatible. They better considering how much the dock cost

That would be true for the "consumer" point of view, but from the "business" side, you would be starting a new product life cycle, and new revenue stream. I'd be more inclined to pay the "$500 combo price" if the dock came with say, a 32GB flash card of some sort, a gigabit ethernet port, and bag...or something more than just an emulator. For all that, I can buy 2-3 of these (even though there is no Android compatibility, but still the hardware is much less expensive):

REDFLY - Companion

Edit - NM, looks like the price went up a bit.

 

[atlbuc]

That would be true for the "consumer" point of view, but from the "business" side, you would be starting a new product life cycle, and new revenue stream. I'd be more inclined to pay the "$500 combo price" if the dock came with say, a 32GB flash card of some sort, a gigabit ethernet port, and bag...or something more than just an emulator. For all that, I can buy 2-3 of these (even though there is no Android compatibility, but still the hardware is much less expensive):

REDFLY - Companion

Edit - NM, looks like the price went up a bit.

Starting a new cycle is true but I have to believe that if they do come out with a new dock and Atrix that the old one will be compatible with future docks. A sleek little bag would be nice but I doubt AT&T will pony up for that.

 

[colnago]

Droid2/Milestone2 is compatible with the D1/M1 dock I believe however that just has the USB port?

What gets me though is the tethering plan requirement. Does AT&T think that we will use the laptop dock to tether another laptop with? There's no way I'd pay the tethering surcharge "just because I'm using a keyboard and monitor to interface with my phone". If I can't run my trading software on my phone, then I can't classify the Atrix as a "connected PC", so that AT&T can charge extra fees.

 

[atlbuc]

Droid2/Milestone2 is compatible with the D1/M1 dock I believe however that just has the USB port?

What gets me though is the tethering plan requirement. Does AT&T think that we will use the laptop dock to tether another laptop with? There's no way I'd pay the tethering surcharge "just because I'm using a keyboard and monitor to interface with my phone". If I can't run my trading software on my phone, then I can't classify the Atrix as a "connected PC", so that AT&T can charge extra fees.

I think what their thinking is you'll use more data while connected to the Dock using Firefox than you would just browsing on your phone. I know if I have the dock with me I'm going to use it to surf rather than use the phone to surf.

 

[djmart]

All this makes me quite pleased I'm in the UK. I may have to wait an extra few months to get it on Orange, but by then all the fuss will have died down and sensible pricing restored. On a decent contract we get our smartphones for free here. My Hero was free on a

 

[Jahmakan]

It's funny to see people calling those that would buy it "stupid", "dumb", etc. I won't be buying it, because it wouldn't make sense for ME to. If you cannot afford it, just say you cannot and won't buy it. But don't call others names because they CAN afford it.

 

[lsutigers03]

It's funny to see people calling those that would buy it "stupid", "dumb", etc. I won't be buying it, because it wouldn't make sense for ME to. If you cannot afford it, just say you cannot and won't buy it. But don't call others names because they CAN afford it.

I expected the phone to be at least $200 on contract when it was announced which is normal for high end phones. I was never going to get the laptop dock anyway. I think the phone on it's own is a beast and you can use webtop without the laptop dock so I'm still very excited to get the phone.

 

[Jahmakan]

I expected the phone to be at least $200 on contract when it was announced which is normal for high end phones. I was never going to get the laptop dock anyway. I think the phone on it's own is a beast and you can use webtop without the laptop dock so I'm still very excited to get the phone.

Exactly. The dock could be a million dollars, that doesn't make the PHONE any worse. I think the people blowing this out of proportion are people that weren't going to buy the phone in the first place; all the more "reason" to not get a phone they weren't planning on buying in the first place.

 

[atlbuc]

Exactly. The dock could be a million dollars, that doesn't make the PHONE any worse. I think the people blowing this out of proportion are people that weren't going to buy the phone in the first place; all the more "reason" to not get a phone they weren't planning on buying in the first place.

I kinda agree, I don't know why people come to this forum to bitch and complain trying to convince themselves and others why not to buy this phone. Its one thing to be opinionated but its another to spend all day on this forum complainig about a phone you're not going to buy.

 

[atlbuc]

I have said from day 1 that this is the phone for me whether I buy the dock or not, just so happens I'm getting the dock.

 

[colnago]

I have said from day 1 that this is the phone for me whether I buy the dock or not, just so happens I'm getting the dock.

Fair enough...all that matters is what works best for you.

Myself, I don't see the Atrix as much of a difference than my current Moto Defy, despite the bump in specs. I get good enough frame rate on the Sling/Dish apps that the laptop dock was the only perk "for me". Going from $15/mo., Unlimited data to, a capped $50+ data plan is also a dissuading factor.

But again, for $500, I'd rather have a full blown i3/i5 "laptop", esp. if being charged a tethering fee.

 

[kb58]

Exactly. The dock could be a million dollars, that doesn't make the PHONE any worse. I think the people blowing this out of proportion are people that weren't going to buy the phone in the first place; all the more "reason" to not get a phone they weren't planning on buying in the first place.

Agreed. Forums thrive on contrived drama where everyone gets all spun up about stuff that, face it, is really unimportant in the big picture. The Atrix is still what it was two days ago, no better or worse, and if it's the phone you want, nothing's changed.

 

[marksm]

If they can detect Firefox and automatically change your plan to the tethering setup, then they will probably be able to detect a tethered laptop running Firefox as well, Yes?

 

[colnago]

If they can detect Firefox and automatically change your plan to the tethering setup, then they will probably be able to detect a tethered laptop running Firefox as well, Yes?

?

Do you mean that when you connect the Atrix to the dock(s), it then changes "modes" (i.e. desktop/webtop mode? Or do you mean that when you connect to the dock(s), AT&T changes your "service plan"?

If you are talking about changing "modes", its most likely nothing more than a magnetized sensor (e.g. Moto Droid, Moto Defy), like the ones for the car docks that simply open the given app (Car Dock mode). That happens every time my Moto Defy is next to my Nokia.

 

[lsutigers03]

If they can detect Firefox and automatically change your plan to the tethering setup, then they will probably be able to detect a tethered laptop running Firefox as well, Yes?

If you don't go crazy with data then AT&T will have no reason to go over your usage with a fine toothed comb. So I would say if you stay under 5GB even though there's no cap on unlimited you'll be fine.

 

[youareme7]

If they can detect Firefox and automatically change your plan to the tethering setup, then they will probably be able to detect a tethered laptop running Firefox as well, Yes?

If you don't go crazy with data then AT&T will have no reason to go over your usage with a fine toothed comb. So I would say if you stay under 5GB even though there's no cap on unlimited you'll be fine.

They don't really have the ability to distinguish data consumption, they just use software locks to make you pay to use tethering. I've tethered for many years with european phones and never had a problem. Don't have a problem tethering with my Nexus One with CM either. It's just money grubbing, they can't tell.

If we get root on the phone then I'm sure that running the webtop over 3g\4g will work just fine with a little finesse. (though I don't know who would pay for that lapdock, lol)


What lsutigers03 is true though, if you start gobbling up massive amounts of data then they do have the ability to terminate your contract, but the traffic that goes through to smartphones versus a "real" computer is virtually the same and without massively invading your privacy they can't know the difference.

 

[HyperM3]

All Ive seen is "on-contract" pricing and bundles. Are there any confirmed prices for the phone and docks off contract?

Ive been off contract for a while and typically get a new phone every 6 months so its not worth upgrading my plan for a phone.

I want to know prices out the door.

 

[atlbuc]

All Ive seen is "on-contract" pricing and bundles. Are there any confirmed prices for the phone and docks off contract?

Ive been off contract for a while and typically get a new phone every 6 months so its not worth upgrading my plan for a phone.

I want to know prices out the door.

Phone we don't know yet, dock is $499

 

[substance12]

the dock price is "almost" irrelevant at this point. they are going to charge you for the tethering for using FF... despite the fact that you're not actually tethering.

 

[s.m.knipe]

What lsutigers03 is true though, if you start gobbling up massive amounts of data then they do have the ability to terminate your contract, but the traffic that goes through to smartphones versus a "real" computer is virtually the same and without massively invading your privacy they can't know the difference.

This isn't completely accurate. Believe me, they can (and will if they have a reason to) look for the fingerprint for type of url requested and passed across their network (basically think of it like the difference between m.phandroid.com vs www.phandroid.com- although nowadays it is much more advanced than that). The coding in most/many html websites tailor the displayed page to the device and application requesting it, and records the version sent across through the redirects and access requests that pass across the network. AT&T busted my friend four years ago when he was tethering with his Nokia phone as his primary internet connection (he thought it was failsafe, although he used anywhere between 6 and 9 gigabytes a month back then, so he made himself a target for investigation), and this is exactly how they busted him. They sent him a letter with his bill detailing the page requests and showing all the non-mobile finger-printed urls and access requests, and they wanted something like $4,000 for three months' worth of back charges. He fought it and got it reduced down to like $2000 or so, but the point is they can tell both the device and application, and I am cautioning that this will probably be how they recognize the webtop firefox use.

That being said, I tether as well, I just make sure it is kept below 4-ish gigs or so a month (try to fly just under the radar)

 

[youareme7]

This isn't completely accurate. Believe me, they can (and will if they have a reason to) look for the fingerprint for type of url requested and passed across their network (basically think of it like the difference between m.phandroid.com vs www.phandroid.com- although nowadays it is much more advanced than that). The coding in most/many html websites tailor the displayed page to the device and application requesting it, and records the version sent across through the redirects and access requests that pass across the network. AT&T busted my friend four years ago when he was tethering with his Nokia phone as his primary internet connection (he thought it was failsafe, although he used anywhere between 6 and 9 gigabytes a month back then, so he made himself a target for investigation), and this is exactly how they busted him. They sent him a letter with his bill detailing the page requests and showing all the non-mobile finger-printed urls and access requests, and they wanted something like $4,000 for three months' worth of back charges. He fought it and got it reduced down to like $2000 or so, but the point is they can tell both the device and application, and I am cautioning that this will probably be how they recognize the webtop firefox use.

That being said, I tether as well, I just make sure it is kept below 4-ish gigs or so a month (try to fly just under the radar)

WHOA, that is SHOCKING! I don't think an ISP can legally examine your data traffic at that level without a warrant. Even if they did view the request headers, most Android phones out there can change the user agent to anything from the iphone to internet explorer so how would they prove I didn't just use a "desktop user agent" on my phone? (aside: I do use the desktop user agent a lot because I really don't like mobile formatted sites) On the flip side, spoofing a mobile user agent in Firefox is easy stuff. The best course of action would be to use a VPN, they definitely wouldn't be able to see what's happening with encrypted traffic. Of course if they're just looking at consumption patterns that's a different story and it pays to "fly under the radar" as you say. I'd say that's good advice overall if you want to tether. Me, I have the 2gb plan anyway, so there's no way i'm going to be streaming high def video to a computer or anything, lol...

 

[s.m.knipe]

WHOA, that is SHOCKING! I don't think an ISP can legally examine your data traffic at that level without a warrant. Even if they did view the request headers, most Android phones out there can change the user agent to anything from the iphone to internet explorer so how would they prove I didn't just use a "desktop user agent" on my phone? (aside: I do use the desktop user agent a lot because I really don't like mobile formatted sites) On the flip side, spoofing a mobile user agent in Firefox is easy stuff. The best course of action would be to use a VPN, they definitely wouldn't be able to see what's happening with encrypted traffic. Of course if they're just looking at consumption patterns that's a different story and it pays to "fly under the radar" as you say. I'd say that's good advice overall if you want to tether. Me, I have the 2gb plan anyway, so there's no way i'm going to be streaming high def video to a computer or anything, lol...

That is partially how my friend fought it- by claiming they didn't have the right to examine it, but an attorney later advised him that they do if it is using their network data bandwith (they own it as a commodity until it is sold to you in packets, and they also reserve the right to investigate suspicious usage in your contract). They have the right to find and prosecute "theft" which apparently is how this is classified. Lastly they can bill you for it because it is (supposedly) on one hand "robbing" them of bandwidth beyond your agreed use, and secondly you are "stealing" a service from them they could otherwise charge you for. The lawyer said these very rarely do every go to court because the user can claim ignorance they carrier will settle or work out a deal before anyone gets sued or anything. I asked if there is legal standing for that (because it has always sounded shady to me, even before I had interest in it) and he said that yes they do because unauthorized tethering deprives them of resources and potential services and causes "real" (monetary) damages to the carrier. I think the whole thing is BS, but it was quite the ordeal for him- especially because it was on his dad's family plan. As for looking at the specific fingerprints, I would wager now they can just set up a filter for certain fingerprints (such as the Webtop Firefox client) and let a flag go up when certain fingerprints keep turning up on a line, then classify it as "suspicious" and search for the precise number of times and either bill you, or require the tethering plan, or both. Keep in mind that they really only offered tethering at that time (to my knowledge) to business class customers; which is the other way he got out of some of it- he wasn't a business customer so her wasn't depriving them of any service they could offer to him.

Also, yeah, if the webtop firefox has extensions etc. available (which it should as it is supposedly a linux version -I guess either the .deb or the .rpm as I think those are the only two Mozilla offers right now) spoofing the android mobile browser would be a surefire way to avoid notice... and just watch data consumption with it...

I'd bet too that there will be pop-up reminders that you have to have a tethering plan to use the Firefox client. I wonder how long until webtop gets hacked/rooted and we can really play?