agentc13
Daleks Über Alles
For many carriers, you have to give up the grandfathered plan in order to get a subsidized phone. I am not sure specifically which do and don't at the moment, but some (if not all) the major US carriers are going that way.
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Can someone clarify how not subsidizing the phone is a good thing?
- Thread starter JohnJSal
- Start date
For many carriers, you have to give up the grandfathered plan in order to get a subsidized phone. I am not sure specifically which do and don't at the moment, but some (if not all) the major US carriers are going that way.
jhawkkw
Chinchillin'
*cough* Verizon unlimited data plans *cough*
gtbarry
Android Expert
I think "subsidize" is a loaded term. It implies that they are paying a portion of the cost of the phone for you. When really you are paying way more than the cost of the phone. Even if you look at the initial payout and than add in an estimated monthly amount based on your contract price, you are still paying more for that phone. Why? The carriers are buying in bulk and paying WAY less than you or I pay for the same phone with a single direct purchase. But yet the carriers charge you about the same as you would pay on your own or more (read: carrier profit).
To answer the OP's question directly...In theory, you pay less monthly on a t-mobile plan than you would if they added the cost paying for the phone over time (or that of a competitor's similar plan with the phone costs built-in).
Big picture: Imagine a marketplace where you buy the phone you want based on the phone itself. Shop a few phone-only stores and get the best price. The phone-only stores will try to get you to buy from them based on lowest price since they only sell phones. Then you compare all of the carriers and buy the best plan for you based on price, service and support. Sounds nirvana-ish and the winner would be you. Not contract-based mobile carriers that lock you in for as long as possible, charge you fees for anything you want to do or change and stifle innovation (i.e. ISIS) and competition (spectrum hoarding).
To answer the OP's question directly...In theory, you pay less monthly on a t-mobile plan than you would if they added the cost paying for the phone over time (or that of a competitor's similar plan with the phone costs built-in).
Big picture: Imagine a marketplace where you buy the phone you want based on the phone itself. Shop a few phone-only stores and get the best price. The phone-only stores will try to get you to buy from them based on lowest price since they only sell phones. Then you compare all of the carriers and buy the best plan for you based on price, service and support. Sounds nirvana-ish and the winner would be you. Not contract-based mobile carriers that lock you in for as long as possible, charge you fees for anything you want to do or change and stifle innovation (i.e. ISIS) and competition (spectrum hoarding).
new optimus
Android Expert
here is where things go off the tracks though, if you have had your plan for many years you have a locked in price that new customers can not get so upgrading your plan in that situation is not a good idea.
There are some reasons to switch carriers though. I had boost mobile, with there shrinkage deal I was paying $35 for unlimited everything and no throttling, however the speeds on t mobile are so far ahead of them its not even funny, now I have $30 t mobile, but its got sever limitations in talk mins and it gets throttled after 5gbs, which generally wont be a problem, have not hit that yet. So for me, and some others its a win win lower price and faster speeds, but if you talk and you cant find alternatives your price goes up, doubled if you need more then 500mbs of data, and on a smart phone most will. so you go with the $60 plan 2.5gbs should be enough for many. still a win but just barely.
There are some reasons to switch carriers though. I had boost mobile, with there shrinkage deal I was paying $35 for unlimited everything and no throttling, however the speeds on t mobile are so far ahead of them its not even funny, now I have $30 t mobile, but its got sever limitations in talk mins and it gets throttled after 5gbs, which generally wont be a problem, have not hit that yet. So for me, and some others its a win win lower price and faster speeds, but if you talk and you cant find alternatives your price goes up, doubled if you need more then 500mbs of data, and on a smart phone most will. so you go with the $60 plan 2.5gbs should be enough for many. still a win but just barely.
runtmms
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't discount the competition in the T-Mobile MVNO market. I agree the $50 and $60 plans directly from T-Mobile aren't very attractive. But $45 at Straight Talk gets you an unspecified amount of 4G data (very likely more than 2GB.) And $49 at Solavei gets 4GB of 4G. T-Mobile's plans start to look better when you look at the family plans - they're great if you have 3-5 lines.
I think the real shift will happen when the phone prices get competitive. Hopefully, the Nexus 4 is just the start of that trend. The math changes when phones are $350 not $600
I think the real shift will happen when the phone prices get competitive. Hopefully, the Nexus 4 is just the start of that trend. The math changes when phones are $350 not $600
Ah, this was my mistake all along! I always forget that my Sprint plan only has 450 minutes and is not the truly unlimited plan, which is $100. I suppose that changes everything!
This is why it's so hard to compare carriers. The pricing and features make direct comparisons difficult.
The UNcarrier plans are great if you need unlimited talk. But if you use a lot less than 450 minutes and you don't need data roaming and the other features of postpaid, you shouldn't be looking at the UNcarrier plans at all because the $30 prepaid plan is a better deal. That is unlimited data (5GB before throttle) and texts, plus the first 100 minutes are included, extra minutes cost 10 cents each. So for example, if you use 250 minutes a month, you would pay $45/month on T-Mobile prepaid. Compared to your $70 Sprint plan, that gives you an extra $25/month ($600 over 2 years) to "subsidize" your own phone.
I look at it this way, it's still a contract, of a different kind. When you get your phone you have to pay it off, even if you cancel your service. Instead of an etf, you will be paying off the phone. If the other carriers would reduce your monthly fee after your contract is up, it would be similar to tmobile. Tmobile had been doing this for years in prepaid.
chong67
Android Expert
I got about 4 mths left and I have to pay a $50 fine.
Sometimes you will find Sprint change their contract, then its your excuse to them that they violate and you can get out. Google it.
Those prices that Tmo charges you to finance are MSRP and you are paying the full price. I would rather get a new phone on ebay and pay with my cc to pay it off. Otherwise start packing your lunch n dont eat out and save the dough to get a new phone.
Palmetto Fellow
Android Expert
I agree, it is still a contract. You gotta pay the phone off if you cancel service. However, one beautiful aspect is if you want to bring your phone over to TMobile, you can...and there's no contract then. The contract is on the hardware, not the service, and that's pretty damn cool if you ask me.
However, if your goal is to score a cheaper phone, I think getting a Samsung GS3 from AT&T for $99 on special, then paying the $325 ETF is only $425 total. Now unlock the phone (can you still do this on your own without AT&T giving you the unlock code?), and bring it to Tmobile...and you save. Or buy a used one on eBay for $300-350 and bring it to TMobile with no contract. Or buy a NEW unlocked one for $450 from Amazon and again, avoid a contract.
If I wasn't on Virgin Mobile paying less than $30 per month for my plan (I buy top ups on eBay for a discount) I would surely be with TMobile instead of Sprint, AT&T or Verizon.
new optimus
Android Expert
T mobile has $30 plan, and I can get $50 refill for $40 so I pay less then $30 as well. Granted I have 100 mins instead of 300 but if you can get VOIP calling working good that will help considerably. With the speed of even hspa+ not to mention lte it seems a win to me over vm or boost(my previous carrier) or sprint.
I'm on a legacy plan with pretty much all of the retentions promos. Don't think the new value plan will help me, BUT T-Mobile does offer some help to people in my situation.
For any lines that have an upgrade available (or I think within a few months of upgrade being available), there's a retentions department data plan called "bridge to value". It's a $5 data plan (I'm not sure exactly how much data you get on that plan). It's basically reducing by retentions data plan on that line from $20 to $5. The way I understand it is that if I take a subsidized upgrade, I go back to the $20 plan. This also does give me the option to get a non-subsidized iphone for $100 down and $20/mo. I don't think you can get a subsidized iphone no matter what, at this point.
Considering the legacy plan that I have, I'm pretty sure I'm better sticking with the plan I have, getting all of the lines onto bridge to value eventually and then buying the phones using the payment plan.
For any lines that have an upgrade available (or I think within a few months of upgrade being available), there's a retentions department data plan called "bridge to value". It's a $5 data plan (I'm not sure exactly how much data you get on that plan). It's basically reducing by retentions data plan on that line from $20 to $5. The way I understand it is that if I take a subsidized upgrade, I go back to the $20 plan. This also does give me the option to get a non-subsidized iphone for $100 down and $20/mo. I don't think you can get a subsidized iphone no matter what, at this point.
Considering the legacy plan that I have, I'm pretty sure I'm better sticking with the plan I have, getting all of the lines onto bridge to value eventually and then buying the phones using the payment plan.
That may explain what happened to me. I noticed when I upgraded to the S4 my data plan changed from $25 to $10. I'm also on a very old plan, over ten years old. My data plan is still the "myTouch Unlimited". Unless it was all a mistake, either way I'm fine with them making me pay a little less to help make up for it.
Thanks for the heads up though. Definitely explains what most likely happened.
Palmetto Fellow
Android Expert
Yes, but I'm on a $45 plan with 1200 minutes, not the $35 plan with 400 minutes. I buy $40 top ups for $22.99 and have a current balance of $180 with VM. The math won't work out for me...if I could get my calls to less than 300 minutes, maybe...but I am pretty steady at 450 minutes a month...and sometimes with work, I can go over 600.
I thought about paying $.10 per minute over 100, but that's going to be like $20-30 in overages each month...and there's no way I want to deal with Google Voice or VoIP.
As of right now, the $45 VM plan with eBay discount top ups is the best option for me. I just wish I could get some better phones
You guys have it good with phone choices 
new optimus
Android Expert
Yes, but I'm on a $45 plan with 1200 minutes, not the $35 plan with 400 minutes. I buy $40 top ups for $22.99 and have a current balance of $180 with VM. The math won't work out for me...if I could get my calls to less than 300 minutes, maybe...but I am pretty steady at 450 minutes a month...and sometimes with work, I can go over 600.
I thought about paying $.10 per minute over 100, but that's going to be like $20-30 in overages each month...and there's no way I want to deal with Google Voice or VoIP.
As of right now, the $45 VM plan with eBay discount top ups is the best option for me. I just wish I could get some better phones
Yes that makes a big difference. the only other option would be going with one of the t mobile clients such as straight talk $45 plan getting refills may or may not be cheaper though. Or going with t mobiles $50 or $60 plan it would all depend on data needed too.
Other then vm's slow 3g network your getting the best deal you can I think.
Palmetto Fellow
Android Expert
The 3g around here performs very well, and the WiMAX is quite nice. I hear lots of complaints in the forum for my phone about data speeds, but my area is ok luckily. I have one dead spot for data on my way home that lasts for a couple of miles. I didn't realize roaming wasn't an option with Virgin; I didn't look closely at their coverage map. Luckily, I don't travel so is ok with me.
I just bought my mom a simple flip phone...her first cell phone. She's in a wheel chair and doesn't get out much. I'll be giving it to her for Mother's Day. I decided on the T-Mobile 665 which is only $35 on Amazon. She'll be on the $10 top up plan which is good for 90 days. She probably won't use any of her minutes at all, it's just for emergencies.
Just curious, would T-Mobile know if she put her SIM in an android phone? She would like an android phone,but would never agree to pay $30/mo for service.
new optimus
Android Expert
you should be able to put the sim in the android phone, they will of course use data differently then the simple phone but depending on the data details of that top up plan it will work just fine.
zachavm
Android Enthusiast
Just my quick two cents. The biggest factor here is the long term good to the consumer. Right now Phone pricing is artificially inflated due to lack of transparent price competition to the consumer. Prices of phones should drop as technology improves and competition drives it down. That hasn't happened to phones because of the business model. People are making HUGE paydays off them at the expense of the consumer.
Want proof? Look at the tablet market. Tablet prices have dropped like rocks. Meanwhile, phone prices have stayed mostly stagnant. If we drop subsidies and get the consumer basing purchase decisions on true price we'll get more competitive pricing.
Want proof? Look at the tablet market. Tablet prices have dropped like rocks. Meanwhile, phone prices have stayed mostly stagnant. If we drop subsidies and get the consumer basing purchase decisions on true price we'll get more competitive pricing.
zachavm
Android Enthusiast
One more thing here. The other carriers all have to build into the contract the most expensive phones ($600). If you choose a cheaper phone, it really does you little good outside of the initial payment. However, If get a $200 phone for free verses a $600 phone for $200, there is still a $200 differential there that I'm not getting back in my pocket.
However, on T-Mobile, this is all a line item and straight forward expense. Additionally, if I have an AT&T phone that works and is unlocked I can bring that with me and have NOTHING required of my to pay for a phone. Just straight $70/month.
Trust me guys, this is WAAAAYYYYYY better for the consumer in the long run!!!!!!!!!
However, on T-Mobile, this is all a line item and straight forward expense. Additionally, if I have an AT&T phone that works and is unlocked I can bring that with me and have NOTHING required of my to pay for a phone. Just straight $70/month.
Trust me guys, this is WAAAAYYYYYY better for the consumer in the long run!!!!!!!!!