Cellphones blocked in SF to hinder transit protest

[noah way]

It is not illegal to show up in a public place and protest.

Unless of course you don't have a permit.

 

[Dark Jedi]

You're missing the point. If they had decided that people talking on cell phones during the commute was problematic so they shut off the system, no one would have any First Amendment issues.

What they did was different than that though. People said they were going to show up to protest. In response, BART shuts down cell service to prevent the protestors from being able to organize. How is that any different that Tunisia or Egypt? It's the reason and intent behind their actions that makes a difference.

Maybe they just sucked at organization. After all maybe they should have met in person instead of relying on cellphones to plan their attacks.

 

[Dark Jedi]

That's all fine, but at the point they made the decision, nothing had happened. If these people were actively engaging in illegal civil disobedience, then you might have a good argument. It is not illegal to show up in a public place and protest.

They built an arena here in town recently. It was unpopular with a certain segment of the population. They decided they wanted to protest the opening of the arena. How did our city respond? They roped off an area in front of the arena and designated it for the protesters. They hired security to ensure that the protesters stayed in their designated area. No one's free speech was hindered and there was no disruption of business.

I bet the filed a permit to protest at the opening. That's why.an area wwas roped off for them. This other group sounds like they filed no permit and was doing this on the fly.

 

[OutofDate1980]

Unless of course you don't have a permit.

Noah, you will never get a permit for advocating;
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

 

[RiverOfIce]

Noah, you will never get a permit for advocating;
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

 

[noah way]

The constitution/declaration of independence means nothing in this culture, you might as well read calvin and hobbies to them.

Which essentially means that change will come when the corrupt system collapses from it's own dead weight. Without trying to sound too pessimistic, this sounds a lot like dying from cancer.

 

[Tommy78]

Which essentially means that change will come when the corrupt system collapses from it's own dead weight. Without trying to sound too pessimistic, this sounds a lot like dying from cancer.

The entire system needs to fail and start anew. This cannot an will not happen without mass confusion and unrest. This means we either deal with what we have or risk some crazy new uncivil world being born. That's what happens when a corrupt system collapses. I'm not sure I like these choices.

 

[Crude]

The constitution/declaration of independence means nothing in this culture, you might as well read calvin and hobbies to them.

qtf

 

[Bob Maxey]

It's not illegal to protest.

Not always.

 

[Crude]

I think this would be an interesting case.

Was the protest on private property? Was the antenna owned or managed by the property owner? Was it shut off with consent of the owner? I honestly don't know who owns what here, but that would make all the difference.

 

[Frisco]

Was the protest on private property? Was the antenna owned or managed by the property owner? Was it shut off with consent of the owner? I honestly don't know who owns what here, but that would make all the difference.

All that and the public monies involved..

 

[quest7]

And to add fuel to the fire:

Hacktivist group Anonymous says it will take the Web site of the Bay Area Rapid Transit (BART) system offline later today for six hours while also inundating BART fax lines and e-mail accounts.

Anonymous plans BART Web site attack, protest | News - Digital Media - CNET News

 

[RiverOfIce]

Which essentially means that change will come when the corrupt system collapses from it's own dead weight. Without trying to sound too pessimistic, this sounds a lot like dying from cancer.

I understand what it means, but thank you for pointing out the elephant in the the room. This country is not dying, it is dead. We are now just maggots eating off the corpse. There are two basic sides to this argument, but the problem is the same, we are riding a dead horse. The republicans want to get as much flesh as humanly possible to the fewest maggots possible. The democrats are still riding the horse like it is still alive. Thinking that if we just ration out the last of the flesh, the horse will recover. The horse is dead.

We are now determining what will happen next, will we allow all the wealth to be funneled to the top .5% or will we all suffer a little bit. It looks like we will let the money go to the top .5%.


But did you know the mere mention of those words (declaration of independence) can and will get you labeled as a terrorist and convicted as such?

Treason- the betrayal of a trust or confidence; breach of faith; treachery.
Sedition-any action, especially in speech or writing, promoting such discontent or rebellion.

Seditious conspiracy (18 U.S.C.

 

[A.Nonymous]

Maybe they just sucked at organization. After all maybe they should have met in person instead of relying on cellphones to plan their attacks.

Couldn't you make that argument about Tunisia or Egypt as well?

 

[noah way]

I understand what it means, but thank you for pointing out the elephant in the the room. This country is not dying, it is dead.
...
Treason- the betrayal of a trust or confidence; breach of faith; treachery.
Sedition-any action, especially in speech or writing, promoting such discontent or rebellion.

And I though I was a pessimist ...

There are hundreds of millions of people who would be very happy to have a job and provide a basic living for their families. THIS is the real country.

The criminals who control government - financiers, industrialists and politicians - are the traitors. They have usurped the law (or exempted themselves from it) for their own personal benefit.

The question is how to change the system, and if it is even possible. Unless we all decide that money has no value and start bartering our products and services (which is happening at an ever increasing rate), or we all stop paying taxes (not likely, as 40% of federal revenue is collected through payroll taxes), I see no way to enact change.

A such, I predict a future where small sections of the country become walled compounds in which the 1/2% live. Places like DC, parts of Manhattan, Aspen, Malibu, the Hamptons, etc. will be essentially walled off and heavily guarded. The larger areas of the country will be open to corporate rape and pillage with the US military acting as the corporate security arm (just like it does now overseas).

The general populace will exist in various conditions ranging from feudal servitude to self-sufficient self-policed/militarized communities that occasionally conflict with corporate interests. Most of the population and natural disasters (like hurricanes and earthquakes) will be ignored by the government unless they occur within walled-off areas or are essential to corporate-industrial interests.

 

[Crude]

I understand what it means, but thank you for pointing out the elephant in the the room. This country is not dying, it is dead. We are now just maggots eating off the corpse. There are two basic sides to this argument, but the problem is the same, we are riding a dead horse. The republicans want to get as much flesh as humanly possible to the fewest maggots possible. The democrats are still riding the horse like it is still alive. Thinking that if we just ration out the last of the flesh, the horse will recover. The horse is dead.

We are now determining what will happen next, will we allow all the wealth to be funneled to the top .5% or will we all suffer a little bit. It looks like we will let the money go to the top .5%.


But did you know the mere mention of those words (declaration of independence) can and will get you labeled as a terrorist and convicted as such?

Treason- the betrayal of a trust or confidence; breach of faith; treachery.
Sedition-any action, especially in speech or writing, promoting such discontent or rebellion.

Seditious conspiracy (18 U.S.C.

 

[RiverOfIce]

You missed the leeches in your analogy. You know the ones that sucked the horse dry and killed it? The ones that sit at home and do not contribute. The ones that eat 1/3 of our annual budget?

I was going to leave the military out of it, but they consume about 58% of the budget not 30%.

 

[Tommy78]

He's not talking about the Military (obviously) since it has a use, you know, to protect the country? What is more important than that in todays world? What he was talking about was all the people the left love to provide for so they're able to sit around all day and do nothing and not look for work.

 

[OutofDate1980]

The constitution/declaration of independence means nothing in this culture, you might as well read calvin and hobbies to them.

I tend to agree with you that the D.O.I. has no legal standing, would like to be proven wrong, but it does mean something in a culture context.

 

[OutofDate1980]

... But did you know the mere mention of those words (declaration of independence) can and will get you labeled as a terrorist and convicted as such? ...

I disagree with the "will", as the mere or sole mention of the D.O.I. will get you convicted of anything. Not saying some loony prosecutor may attempt to do so.


Now if I'm reciting the D.O.I, i.e. the alter clause, while attempting to do harm to a Federal or State official, then this recitation could be used to show intent of treason.

 

[Bob Maxey]

But did you know the mere mention of those words (declaration of independence) can and will get you labeled as a terrorist and convicted as such?

Treason- the betrayal of a trust or confidence; breach of faith; treachery.
Sedition-any action, especially in speech or writing, promoting such discontent or rebellion.

Seditious conspiracy (18 U.S.C.

 

[RiverOfIce]

What he was talking about was all the people the left love to provide for so they're able to sit around all day and do nothing and not look for work.

Wow, I would take that has an insult if I was him. But if you insist in riding a 70 year old like a rented mule, it is up to you. But I think that the people that are handicapped, elderly, and disabled REQUIRE us to make sure they are provided for.


There is a woman that lives in my apartment complex. I give her a ride to the market every week. She is 80 years old, has a artificial hip, worked 60 years, since she was 10 years old to 70 years old. She lives only on social security, because her work was at minimum wage. I take her to the store, buy her groceries, and drive her to the doctor when she needs it. Because I understand that life never ends up as you want it.

If you seriously think that woman and people like her, should be working, you are not part of the America I am proud of.

Morally, legally, and biblically, we have to provide for those that will not, can not, or would not provide for themselves, remember what you do for the least of your bothers...

 

[RiverOfIce]

Oh give me a break. You are trying to equate blocking a few pissy cell users with treason or violations of the Constitution? Relax, we will survive, and it is not as dire as you apparently seem to think it is.

How does 18 U.S.C.

 

[Frisco]

If we keep our words and fingers pointed at the issues at hand, rather than one another, this thread can be pretty good.

 

[Crude]

Wow, I would take that has an insult if I was him. But if you insist in riding a 70 year old like a rented mule, it is up to you. But I think that the people that are handicapped, elderly, and disabled REQUIRE us to make sure they are provided for.


There is a woman that lives in my apartment complex. I give her a ride to the market every week. She is 80 years old, has a artificial hip, worked 60 years, since she was 10 years old to 70 years old. She lives only on social security, because her work was at minimum wage. I take her to the store, buy her groceries, and drive her to the doctor when she needs it. Because I understand that life never ends up as you want it.

If you seriously think that woman and people like her, should be working, you are not part of the America I am proud of.

Morally, legally, and biblically, we have to provide for those that will not, can not, or would not provide for themselves, remember what you do for the least of your bothers...

What budget are you looking at to get your military figures? I think you're buying into the lies of the progressives. United States federal budget - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The problem with SS is that it's a big ponzi scheme that is about to go bust. It runs on the principle that the population will exponentially increase to stay ahead of inflation. We all know the population isn't keeping up with the reproduction numbers from when the program was designed. SO you better make a room available for the old lady cause she's going to need a place to say. And speaking of, that's a second tactic the left uses to discourage cutting entitlement programs..."what about the poor old lady". Well truthfully only a small percentage of the SS recipients are old ladies. And that's not the only program that could use some trimming. title19 and food stamp (I realize this is on a local level) show a ridiculous about of abuse. Not to mention: What did people do before SS when they got old?

You nailed it, the religions where there to help old people. We used to give voluntarily to help people in need. I still give a considerable chunk to organisation that I trust to do what needs to be done. Of course there are A LOT more people needing assistance these days then back then.....you don't suppose they decided, "hey I got SS when I'm old, why save money now?" That's the problem that these programs create.

I firmly believe that when the USA goes bust, and it will, the first thing that will happen is welfare programs will stop sending checks. Then the people who's entire existence was based on xbox, sex and booze will riot....just like in france and greece recently.

How's that for talking points?