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Church Foreclosures Hit Record In 2011

I heard that churches do not pay taxes, which I think is kinda crazy....

In regards to this, I don't see how a church should get any special treatment over any other business. Don't pay bills = shit goes bad. Kinda how I look at it.
 
Churches don't teach their members enough on giving. The church and the members both suffer when that happens. Toss in some mis-management from leadership and you've got problems.
 
Not sure I can fully agree with A.Nonymous as the church I attend does speak about giving. However just because my church does doesnt mean others do. However I think there are two real issues that are being overlooked and that would be 1. People don't have a faith based belief system anymore which is what the country was founded on and 2. Members who have become victims of the current economic system can no longer support their local church. The tragedy here is that these forclosures along with any others are still a bad sign of the state of the economy. The simple cost of living has gone up over 40% in the last 5 years. While the basic pay has leveled or fallen over these same five years. We need insurance and a place to live so which do we decide to keep? and now with gas almost back to the price it was 5 years ago, where is that going to take this current economy? Whether you are a religious person or an atheist I think you should be concerned what this says about our economic state. At what point does "Recession" become "Depression"?
 
"Churches are among the final institutions to get foreclosed upon because banks have not wanted to look like they are being heavy handed with the churches," said Scott Rolfs, managing director of Religious and Education finance at the investment bank Ziegler.
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That's some BS right there. Look, churches get pretty much all their income from charitable donations from the parish and any fundraising they do. Unfortunately, where the economy is today, tithing isn't what it used to be. My dad used to give a sizable donation to our Catholic church back in the day (he no longer goes to church), but not even anywhere what it was supposed to be (10% of your income?). I could just be speculating, but I believe it is Mormons who donate the most back to their church and Catholics are some of the lowest.
I understand that churches provide some great services to the community, and while I'm a pretty devout atheist who believes religion is the root cause of all evil, it is a shame. However, I just have to go along with the free market here. If the churches can't sustain themselves, see ya later.
 
A.Nonymous said:
Churches don't teach their members enough on giving. The church and the members both suffer when that happens. Toss in some mis-management from leadership and you've got problems.
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There are religious organizations that are managing in these tough economic times. They had the foresight to develop divergent revenue streams, thus not making them dependent on tithing.

For example, the Catholic Church had the business acuity to obtain the majority of the Educational Broadcast spectrum handed out by the US government at no cost then to license out this spectrum to private business and creating an at least 250 million tax free revenue stream.

Religious organizations that have only faith based revenue model will go the way of the dodo bird.
 
Even if members are tithing, if they're out of work or if their under employed, their giving will be down. Charitable organizations, whether they be churches or animal shelters always suffer the hardest during economic downturns.
 
Steven58 said:
Even if members are tithing, if they're out of work or if their under employed, their giving will be down. Charitable organizations, whether they be churches or animal shelters always suffer the hardest during economic downturns.
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Exactly my point, diversify or perish. Those organizations with a long institutional memory do not rely on only one revenue stream, i.e. tithing.
 
OutofDate1980 said:
There are religious organizations that are managing in these tough economic times. They had the foresight to develop divergent revenue streams, thus not making them dependent on tithing.

For example, the Catholic Church had the business acuity to obtain the majority of the Educational Broadcast spectrum handed out by the US government at no cost then to license out this spectrum to private business and creating an at least 250 million tax free revenue stream.

Religious organizations that have only faith based revenue model will go the way of the dodo bird.
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Churches are supposed to be dependent on tithes/offering. I'd argue the scripture intends it to be that way, but don't want to go down the religious rabbit hole. In any case, I go back to what I said previously, church's (I feel) aren't teaching about giving. Their congregations suffer for it and the church does as well.
 
A.Nonymous said:
Churches are supposed to be dependent on tithes/offering....
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Why ? I would claim they're free to support their mission anyway they see fit, as long as the means are lawful.

Far out example, a religions tenets encourages healthy living, they decide to open a "gentleman's" club and act in accordance of law. The religions tenets give its members a competitive advantage in this enterprise, therefore providing higher profits, thus providing a, in this case, probably taxed income stream.
 
Here, the some Churches (Catholic), have requested people to stop giving change in the collection buckets. The smallest Euro notes are €5, so thats like $7 minimum every time you attend. Then again, Catholic mass attendance has fallen off a cliff :D
 
OutofDate1980 said:
Why ? I would claim they're free to support their mission anyway they see fit, as long as the means are lawful.

Far out example, a religions tenets encourages healthy living, they decide to open a "gentleman's" club and act in accordance of law. The religions tenets give its members a competitive advantage in this enterprise, therefore providing higher profits, thus providing a, in this case, probably taxed income stream.
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I would argue the Bible says it's supposed to be that way. Legally, you're right, but a church is supposed to do things the way God wants them to, not necessarily how they're allowed to do things. A church could charge admission to everyone who walked through the doors, for example. This would prevent a lot of people from coming to services which would get in the way of the church's ultimate mission IMO. It would be perfectly legal for them to charge admission, but I'd argue that God would not be pleased.
 
A.Nonymous said:
I would argue the Bible says it's supposed to be that way. Legally, you're right, but a church is supposed to do things the way God wants them to, not necessarily how they're allowed to do things. A church could charge admission to everyone who walked through the doors, for example. This would prevent a lot of people from coming to services which would get in the way of the church's ultimate mission IMO. It would be perfectly legal for them to charge admission, but I'd argue that God would not be pleased.
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:rolleyes:Unfortunately, God is not on my client list, so I can't argue for him/her/undetermined.

Just think of the fee's I missing out of.

The Judeo/Christian market does have a multitude of monotheistic Gods, bibles and tenets, so there may be an opportunity in this arena.

I understand the Hindu's have a large client base of unique Gods and tenets, perhaps I should focus on this underserved market.:rolleyes:
 
A.Nonymous said:
I would argue the Bible says it's supposed to be that way. Legally, you're right, but a church is supposed to do things the way God wants them to, not necessarily how they're allowed to do things. A church could charge admission to everyone who walked through the doors, for example. This would prevent a lot of people from coming to services which would get in the way of the church's ultimate mission IMO. It would be perfectly legal for them to charge admission, but I'd argue that God would not be pleased.
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Just to enter into the fray? Nowhere does New Testament specify HOW the churches were to raise funds for expenses. Regarding giving, the New Testament nowhere specifies an amount that believers are to give. Not even a percentage. It teaches, on the other hand, that all we are, and all we have belongs to God, not just a percentage.

Case in point. The term "tent making" is taken from a section in the book of Acts where it records that one of the reasons Paul was close to Priscilla and Aquilla were because they were all "tent makers" by profession. Paul, while he was with them, worked with them making tents for money, thereby raising his own support, so he could go into the synagogues on the Sabbaths to teach about the Messiah to the Jews and Gentiles.

At other times, Paul took support from the Church. So, my conclusion is that the church is free to be creative to raise its funds according to and in a manner that's moral and consistent with the teachings of scripture.
 
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