Do you believe in God

[mrqs]

The universe at its most fundamental foundation doesn't make any sense.

i kinda agree, but imo, the concept of a god creating the world, us living in it, dying and then going to heaven doesn't make one bit more sense

it's something i don't understand, but i'm ok with that - i don't need to create a fantasy that "explains" it, i can live with the knowledge that there are some things my mind isn't capable of understanding

Also where the hell did the big bang come from?

the notion that an intelligent being created the universe is not an answer to the question, because it only changes its target - where the hell did god come from?

either something always existed, or something came from nothing - whether that something was quarks, leptons and bosons or god makes no difference; the question remains unanswered

I also believe in evolution... I think many atheists don't know that religion and evolution can be friends.

i'm pretty sure most atheists recognize the difference between simple theism and blind religiosity (most i know, anyway)

I don't feel like arguing, just my opinion.

do you mind elaborating on the "leaders being fallacies" statement tho'?
'cause i have no idea what you meant by that

You can continue to believe what you believe, but this thread will be closed if it continues in the manner that it has been. The rudeness needs to stop and anymore of this will result in infractions.

i'd very much prefer for the thread to stay open, i find it quite interesting - people getting over the line can be gotten rid of

So say I claim that the life forms on earth are the only ones in the entire universe, and there exists no other, I don't have to provide any proof or reasoning for my belief?

proof and reasoning are two very different things - atheists provide a lot of reasoning against the existence of a god, but it's inherently impossible to provide proof that something doesn't exist

there exists no proof of extra terrestrial life, but there's plenty of reasoning why it probably does exist

on the other hand there is no proof of a god, and there's plenty of reasoning why one can't exist (dependant on the definition of a god of course)

 

[Sev]

do you mind elaborating on the "leaders being fallacies" statement tho'?
'cause i have no idea what you meant by that

I meant that the Government is false and corrupt, don't want to go into detail because some of you might think I'm insane, rofl.

But I respect everybody's opinion.

 

[MJM128]

there exists no proof of extra terrestrial life, but there's plenty of reasoning why it probably does exist

on the other hand there is no proof of a god, and there's plenty of reasoning why one can't exist (dependant on the definition of a god of course)

But you're saying you don't need to provide any reasoning for it. No matter if there is reasoning on either side, the reasoning for something that doesn't exist? There are reasoning on both sides for and against the existence of a God. The only thing I'm against is the notion that one does not have to provide anything reasonisng/proof for the non existence for something.

 

[krouget]

My main reason for debating it here is because I hate hearing that quote about science and religion, as it is always separated from its whole context and used to suggest that Einstein was religious.

The debate nearly always digresses to "whatever Einstein thought must be true", so it does rile me.

I can certainly see where you're coming from with that, and I could've elaborated more before using the quote. With a bit of jest, it was used to counter the persons argument that science "rejects religion". I consider religion to be a far broader topic than what is commonly addressed, which are typically theist beliefs-- Confucianism, for example, isn't necessarily 'rejected' by science, whereas Daoism holds more abstract principles which many people use to shape themselves spiritually (I'll note that there is another debatable distinction between religion and spirituality, but just illustrating a brief point).

Overall, science and religion can coexist, but I think there needs to be careful implementation and interpretation of God/religion.

 

[mrqs]

I meant that the Government is false and corrupt, don't want to go into detail because some of you might think I'm insane, rofl.

But I respect everybody's opening.

still not sure what you mean by "false", but i think most people would agree that the government (regardless of which country's government we're talking about) is very flawed

But you're saying you don't need to provide any reasoning for it.

no, i'm not
i'm saying i don't need to provide proof - because proof of something not existing, doesn't exist
i (and others) have provided plenty of reasoning for it

There are reasoning on both sides for and against the existence of a God.

but not all reasoning is created equal
this is what the whole argument should be about - which side has the more plausible reasoning

The only thing I'm against is the notion that one does not have to provide anything reasonisng/proof for the non existence for something.

like i said, reasoning and proof - very different things

 

[HalfFrozen]

So say I claim that the life forms on earth are the only ones in the entire universe, and there exists no other, I don't have to provide any proof or reasoning for my belief?

There are major differences between a god and an alien life form.

There is more evidence of ancient alien life forms then there is a god, which has no evidence.

There are some markings and engravings in some ancient struchers down in Bolivia called Puma Punku. Engravings to fine, so narrow and so precise, no type of ancient carvers could have ever made with the tools they had.

With that being said, there is SOME type of evidence to support that ancient aliens do exist.

I may have not interpreted what you said to the fullest, but I am just saying from how I read it.

 

[HalfFrozen]

Fun filled factoid....

Spoiler

"Out of convicted rapists, 57% admitted to reading
pornography. 95% admitted to reading the Bible."

 

[Rota]

 

[Storm613]

This is a touchy subject haha but my response is yes. And it hurts me to see that so many people have strayed from their faith... One of the reasons I believe there must be a God is because of everything around us. The balance in nature. How life works. Even outer space. The balance in solar systems... The pull of gravity... Stars... The perfect conditions that allows life to exist on our planet. I don't think it its even remotely possible that any of this to exist without an intelligent creator.

 

[fried]

I believe there is a god partly because of science. The universe at its most fundamental foundation doesn't make any sense. Also where the hell did the big bang come from?

So you are using the word "god" to answer questions that science can't answer, much like a primitive man may have believed that lightning was the wrath of whichever god they believed in rather than a discharge of electricity.

It is OK to say "I don't know", especially when "god" is not really answering the question anyway, because humans have invented loads of gods, so which is it? How did that god come into existence? It seems to be OK to say things like "God was always here and we can't really understand that concept because we are not gods" as if that's some kind of answer. It's not. It's just jumping through hoops in order to justify a belief that has absolutely no evidence to back it up.

The burden of proof is ALWAYS on the person making the claim. An atheist merely lacks belief in any gods. If I said that I also lack belief in dragons and fairies, nobody here would say "prove that fairies and dragons don't exist otherwise they do!!!!"..............

[image removed]

So all the theists need to do, is provide some evidence. If one would like to step up and do just that, that would be great, but bear in mind that a collection of largely anonymous texts written centuries ago are no more evidence than me offering up The Lord of The Rings as evidence that Hobbits once existed as you have to start from the faulty position that the Bible is the word of god before you begin. That's just confirmation bias.

 

[ragnarokx]

This is a touchy subject haha but my response is yes. And it hurts me to see that so many people have strayed from their faith... One of the reasons I believe there must be a God is because of everything around us. The balance in nature. How life works. Even outer space. The balance in solar systems... The pull of gravity... Stars... The perfect conditions that allows life to exist on our planet. I don't think it its even remotely possible that any of this to exist without an intelligent creator.

Religion was invented for two reasons - to keep people/society in order like in the case of "god-fearing" christians, and to explain the things around people that they did not understand.

In all sincerity, it sounds like you would be right at home in greek mythology. They have a god to explain everything - like helios the sun god who rides his chariot across the sky everyday, or demeter goddess of agriculture who misses her daughter persephone every winter causing crops not to grow.

But why would you still believe stories like these (or the bible's) when we now have actual explanations for what happens in nature? You want to know why there is "balance in nature" - ecology can tell you, "how life works" - biology can tell you, and so on.

But if you simply prefer the one-explanation-fits-all of a god taking care of everything instead of the more difficult path of learning about nature, that's certainly your choice.

 

[Rota]

Religion was invented for two reasons - to keep people/society in order like in the case of "god-fearing" christians, and to explain the things around people that they did not understand.

In all sincerity, it sounds like you would be right at home in greek mythology. They have a god to explain everything - like helios the sun god who rides his chariot across the sky everyday, or demeter goddess of agriculture who misses her daughter persephone every winter causing crops not to grow.

But why would you still believe stories like these (or the bible's) when we now have actual explanations for what happens in nature? You want to know why there is "balance in nature" - ecology can tell you, "how life works" - biology can tell you, and so on.

But if you simply prefer the one-explanation-fits-all of a god taking care of everything instead of the more difficult path of learning about nature, that's certainly your choice.

Extremely well put sir.

 

[ZDroid1]

I doubt you find many atheists on their death beds. He always finds a way to reach you!

Even if that were true, it would merely prove that humans are weak and terrified of death, not that there is (or isn't) a god.

I voted no because god is merely the causes of nature, humanized. We humans think we're so significant that everything important must have human characteristics. The history of the gods is full of examples. And the current God is nothing but a super human.

 

[grainysand]

Religion is a tool of oppression. Always it has slowed down progress. Don't throw that bullshit at me about morals either; atheists and agnostics can be perfectly good people, and to say otherwise is sheer utter ignorance and conceit.

Even if that were true, it would merely prove that humans are weak and terrified of death, not that there is (or isn't) a god.

I voted no because god is merely the causes of nature, humanized. We humans think we're so significant that everything important must have human characteristics. The history of the gods is full of examples. And the current God is nothing but a super human.

This, absolutely.

The Bible makes for a nice fantasy novel, though, albeit it's in severe need of editorial attention to be readable.

 

[Storm613]

Religion was invented for two reasons - to keep people/society in order like in the case of "god-fearing" christians, and to explain the things around people that they did not understand.

In all sincerity, it sounds like you would be right at home in greek mythology. They have a god to explain everything - like helios the sun god who rides his chariot across the sky everyday, or demeter goddess of agriculture who misses her daughter persephone every winter causing crops not to grow.

But why would you still believe stories like these (or the bible's) when we now have actual explanations for what happens in nature? You want to know why there is "balance in nature" - ecology can tell you, "how life works" - biology can tell you, and so on.

But if you simply prefer the one-explanation-fits-all of a god taking care of everything instead of the more difficult path of learning about nature, that's certainly your choice.

I love science. I love learning about the world around me. And I also have a god to explain everything. The God. He is an actual explanation. And the more I learn about science, the more I believe in God. Sure Ecology can tell me why there is a balance in nature, Biology can tell me about Life. But God put all these things in place to make Life and Nature work. It didn't just happen. God made it happen.

 

[aiz4andy]

I love science. I love learning about the world around me. And I also have a god to explain everything. The God. He is an actual explanation. And the more I learn about science, the more I believe in God. Sure Ecology can tell me why there is a balance in nature, Biology can tell me about Life. But God put all these things in place to make Life and Nature work. It didn't just happen. God made it happen.

Who made God happen?

 

[ThreeDog]

no i dont, and as far as i'm concerned religion is the single biggest killer on this planet.

 

[StLouis]

I don't think there's a god, but I'm not as arrogant as saying I'm sure of it. One thing's for sure: there is no god that matches the description the bible gives. Too many contradictions in there~

Believing to the point that you think you "know" there's a god, abandoning common sense is plain unhealthy, and that's the cause of at least half of the wars/killing/suffering in general that ever occurred.

 

[Storm613]

Who made God happen?

God has always been. And while it is hard to perceive, its a fact.

 

[Droid_Genius]

Well in a nutshell if you want my honest truth of this matter, then God is a allknowing correct? Then that means EVEN WAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY before we where born/thought of/conceived, God already knows who is going to Heaven and Hell, So would it matter it if we all tried to do good works, or anything of that nature because our destiny was already set. I say live your life because its already written and no matter how much you suck up, God may not even have you on his reserve list.....

Disclaimer: By no means am I offending anyones religion.

 

[Pryomancer]

God has always been. And while it is hard to perceive, its a fact.

That is not a fact by any definition.

 

[JQwerty91]

Just wait a second right there. We can't blame an entire religion just because a sub par religion (Roman Catholic) grew wealth and power ever since the fall of the Western Roman Empire. Just to think about it, the early Christians during the Ancient Times were minding their own business. It started from Emperor Constantine and over the years through Man's greed and conquest that would twist such a conservative religion and create a sub religion as we all know today, the Papcy. later be called the Dark Ages. Just like we can't blame all muslims that they caused 9/11. It was just a sub par radical group that outgrew from the peaceful basis of Islam and decided to fundamentally twist it to their own agenda.

 

[JQwerty91]

this seems to be a concept many believers don't seem to grasp
imo (and i'm sure many, if not most atheists agree) the declaration that "there is no god" is no bigger a leap of faith than the declaration that "there is no flying spaghetti monster" or "there is no pink invisible unicorn"

the concept of a god to an atheist (or a true atheist as you put it) is exactly as plausible as the concept of a tooth fairy or santa claus

So if a diety does appear out of nowhere, an Athiest would suddenly change mind and believe?

 

[JQwerty91]

That is not a fact by any definition.

The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.

 

[vincentp]

God has always been. And while it is hard to perceive, its a fact.

I'm not sure that you have the definition of "fact" down.

The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.

The absence of evidence is a pretty damn good indicator of absence. I have no evidence that vampires exist. Why should that be any less plausible than a god?

So if a diety does appear out of nowhere, an Athiest would suddenly change mind and believe?

Well, yes... you'd have to believe it if there were proof it existed. I don't understand where you're trying to go with this logic. The problem is you're trying to back atheists into a corner with a statement like this. If a god were to suddenly "show up" and it had sufficient means to make everyone realize that it was in fact a god, then atheism would no longer exist. Neither would any of the other religions besides the one that happened to be right, actually, because as I've said before, every believer is atheist towards other religions.

The big issue here is that you can put up that big "what if". You won't give atheists a what if. They can't win this argument. No matter how much evidence is given, there is no atheist equivalent to a god just showing up. Their equivalent argument already exists - the lack of one bit of proof. Unfortunately that isn't enough. So how do you win a logical argument when the opponent doesn't use logic?

The best I can do is to ask you this. Let's say you're a Christian, and you follow and believe the bible your entire life. Let's say a god then shows itself to the entire world, and openly declares "Your Christian religion is wrong.. I'm nothing like that". Are you no longer a Christian?