Ethics and Bandwidth Usage

[BlackDynamite]

Last month for the first time ever on my personal phone and overdrive unit. I got charge for going over the 3g 5gb limits.

Overdrive units do have a 5 GB cap though (on the 3G data). And it clearly lists the limit in the plan description, and I'm pretty sure it lists it in the online usage also.

Smartphone data plans list no such limit in the plan descritpion or the online usage.

 

[eieio]

Overdrive units do have a 5 GB cap though (on the 3G data). And it clearly lists the limit in the plan description, and I'm pretty sure it lists it in the online usage also.

Smartphone data plans list no such limit in the plan descritpion or the online usage.

correct and I have exceeded the 5gb 3g cap many times but got charged last month for the first time..

 

[RiverOfIce]

Overdrive units do have a 5 GB cap though (on the 3G data). And it clearly lists the limit in the plan description, and I'm pretty sure it lists it in the online usage also.

Smartphone data plans list no such limit in the plan descritpion or the online usage.

I have gone over dozens of times and have not been charged, that does not mean they do not reserve the right.

The issues is simple, your phone has an imbedded modem. There for they reserve the right to limit that. I have contacted customer service about a dozen times and they all say the same thing. The cap does exist, but it only allows them the right to cut you off, only the right. Does not mean they will, but they reserve the right.

Why would I need a ceo to read what is in the terms and service agreement? Do you have a ceo read you your car manual?

In 2008, sprint said they would only enforce it against cards and phone as modem.

But in 2008, bush said the economy was strong.

Bottom line, there is a cap. It is in black and white. Sorry but it is.

 

[Bales]

I have gone over dozens of times and have not been charged, that does not mean they do not reserve the right.

The issues is simple, your phone has an imbedded modem. There for they reserve the right to limit that. I have contacted customer service about a dozen times and they all say the same thing. The cap does exist, but it only allows them the right to cut you off, only the right. Does not mean they will, but they reserve the right.

Why would I need a ceo to read what is in the terms and service agreement? Do you have a ceo read you your car manual?

In 2008, sprint said they would only enforce it against cards and phone as modem.

But in 2008, bush said the economy was strong.

Bottom line, there is a cap. It is in black and white. Sorry but it is.

Wow, now you just sound like you're trolling. You attempt to discredit my entire argument for the fact I quoted a 2 year article whose source was Sprint corporate, and then you turn around and get your info from a low level sprint CSR? At this point it seems as though you will only believe what you want to believe.

Look, the plan states in plain letters that it is "Unlimited Data". There are no footnotes to denote otherwise. If Sprint reserves the right to shut people off at 5gb, then they know they can expect a lawsuit. Sprint has in fact come out at some point in the past and claimed that the phone plans are indeed unlimited, and until they come out and say that it isn't, I'm more than comfortable assuming that it still is.

 

[BlackDynamite]

I have gone over dozens of times and have not been charged, that does not mean they do not reserve the right.

The issues is simple, your phone has an imbedded modem. There for they reserve the right to limit that. I have contacted customer service about a dozen times and they all say the same thing. The cap does exist, but it only allows them the right to cut you off, only the right. Does not mean they will, but they reserve the right.

Why would I need a ceo to read what is in the terms and service agreement? Do you have a ceo read you your car manual?

In 2008, sprint said they would only enforce it against cards and phone as modem.

But in 2008, bush said the economy was strong.

Bottom line, there is a cap. It is in black and white. Sorry but it is.

Again, if I go to sprint.com and sign into my account, click on the usage link to view my usage, click on the data, it clearly says I have unlimited data remaining.

The cell phone does not have an imbedded modem. The cell phone has an imbedded cellular radio. The cell phone itself can act as a modem for another device though, which is why Sprint used to sell phone as modem plans (and phone as modem is also mentioned in the terms and conditions).

I don't need a CEO to tell me anything. But when the plan I sign up for says it's "unlimited" and when I check my usage and it says "unlimited" there as well, then I know it is actually unlimited. And if they try to put some hidden limit in the fine print, after everything else says unlimited, then they will find out that is illegal, just like Verizon. But again, the limit listed in the terms and conditions are not referring to smartphone data being used on a smartphone. Imbedded modem is referring to a laptop or netbook that actually does have a modem imbedded into it. It is not referring to the cellular radio inside your cell phone.

You're right that Sprint absolutely can charge for going over the 5 GB limit on overdrive units and data cards. But there is no such limit on the people with the unlimited smartphone data plans using data on the smartphone.

 

[RiverOfIce]

Again, if I go to sprint.com and sign into my account, click on the usage link to view my usage, click on the data, it clearly says I have unlimited data remaining.

Then why does it tell how much you have used? If it was truly unlimited, then why even mention it?

The legal language allows sprint to divorce you if they want. Simple as that.

And about your radio vs modem, do not be silly. A modem can be a radio. A radio can be a modem.

Your usb modem is not called a usb radio.
You aircard, is not a radio, it is a modem.

We can play games with this all night.

They may or may not call you on it, but they reserve the right to drop you/charge you if they want.

 

[RiverOfIce]

until they come out and say that it isn't, I'm more than comfortable assuming that it still is.

Please just read your contract. That is all I ask, You are the one that trolled first with misinformed stuff, then backs it up with 2 year old articles.

I am truely done with this topic, moving on.

 

[BlackDynamite]

Then why does it tell how much you have used? If it was truly unlimited, then why even mention it?

The legal language allows sprint to divorce you if they want. Simple as that.

And about your radio vs modem, do not be silly. A modem can be a radio. A radio can be a modem.

Your usb modem is not called a usb radio.
You aircard, is not a radio, it is a modem.

We can play games with this all night.

They may or may not call you on it, but they reserve the right to drop you/charge you if they want.

#1: It shows me how much data I have used because I am on the usage section of my account. It also shows me how many text messages I have sent and received. Are you claiming there is a limit there as well because they show me how much I have used?

#2: I know a USB modem is not called a radio- but it has a radio inside. The cell phone does not have a modem inside, it has a radio- just like the USB modem does not have a modem inside, it has a radio. The cell phone can act as a modem though, just like the USB modem (see the phone as modem restrictions).

#3: There are no games here. It is illegal for them to advertise an unlimited plan and then put secret limits on it. Verizon got sued by the New York Attorney General for this exact thing. No other carrier does this. You are just flat out wrong. The Sprint data plans for smartphones do not have some secret limit in them. And there is absolutely no evidence, anywhere, to suggest otherwise. The data cards have a 5 GB limit that is clearly spelled out in the plan description, and again in your usage details. If there were a limit on the smartphone plans you would also see it spelled out in the same places. And again, this is the law (ask Verizon), so it isn't even really up for debate.

 

[Bales]

Misrepresentation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Anyways, back on topic: No I don't think it's unethical to consume a lot of bandwidth. I am a consumer, just like every other Sprint subscriber. If anyone were to have issues with bandwidth, it is not the other consumers people should blame. The responsibility of handling all of the bandwidth and maintaining a stable connection for it's customers falls squarely on the shoulders of the carrier.

 

[aliveon2legs]

Here is what a Sprint customer service rep had to say in an email response I received today:

Dear (aliveon2legs),

Thank you for your reply.

HTC EVO™ 4G has capability to act as a hotspot and allow up to eight
WiFi-enabled devices to share the 4G experience.

For just $29.99 more per month, you can turn your EVO into a mobile
hotspot connecting up to eight Wi-Fi enabled devices, such as laptops,
gaming devices and digital cameras, simultaneously at 4G speeds (where
available) and 3G speeds anywhere on the Sprint 3G network. This is for
unlimited data no 5GB cap.

Thank you for emailing us.

Sincerely,
Simi N.
Sprint

 

[BlackDynamite]

Here is what a Sprint customer service rep had to say in an email response I received today:

Yeah, Sprint has said that the hotspot feature won't have a cap. That was somehow misunderstood by a lot of bloggers to mean "there is a current 5 GB cap on the supposedly unlimited smartphone data plans that will be removed by the $10 Evo fee."

There IS a current 5 GB cap in place for the "phone as modem" (tethering, hotspot, whatever you want to call it) plans. But there is not a 5 GB cap on the unlimited data plans using data on the phone itself.

So the $30 per month hotspot fee does remove a cap, but the $10 premium data fee (or whatever it's called) does not.

 

[aliveon2legs]

There IS a current 5 GB cap in place for the "phone as modem" (tethering, hotspot, whatever you want to call it) plans. But there is not a 5 GB cap on the unlimited data plans using data on the phone itself.
.

Is there any way for them to actually know that all of the data you're downloading is going to the EVO or a tethered device?

 

[IOWA]

Saltydawg, you are 100%..... wrong. Head over to sprintusers.com. sprint can terminate your contract and shut you off at any time. Vzw got sued because they tried charging people for overages. Sif sprint feels your abusing the service, they can cut you off without notice.

Oh yeah, and phone do have modems. Look up the definition of modem

Riverofice was correct on this one.

 

[BlackDynamite]

Saltydawg, you are 100%..... wrong. Head over to sprintusers.com. sprint can terminate your contract and shut you off at any time. Vzw got sued because they tried charging people for overages. Sif sprint feels your abusing the service, they can cut you off without notice.

Oh yeah, and phone do have modems. Look up the definition of modem

Riverofice was correct on this one.

The definition of modem? As in Modulator, DeModulator? if you want to get technical, NO, there is no modem in a cell phone, and there isn't one in a mobile broadband card either.

If Sprint feels you are abusing the service then yeah, they can probably shut you off. But there is no 5 GB limit on the smartphone data plans. That is not the same thing.

 

[BlackDynamite]

Is there any way for them to actually know that all of the data you're downloading is going to the EVO or a tethered device?

Well we don;t know about the Evo yet because it hasn't been released. But on previous devices, yes, Sprint can tell the difference unless you install a patch/hack/whatever.

 

[IOWA]

Direct broadcast satellite, WiFi, and mobile phones all use modems to communicate, as do most other wireless services today. Modern telecommunications and data networks also make extensive use of radio modems where long distance data links are required. Such systems are an important part of the PSTN, and are also in common use for high-speed computer network links to outlying areas where fibre is not economical Even where a cable is installed, it is often possible to get better performance or make other parts of the system simpler by using radio frequencies and modulation techniques through a cable. Coaxial cable has a very large bandwidth, however signal attenuation becomes a major problem at high data rates if a digital signal is used. By using a modem, a much larger amount of digital data can be transmitted through a single piece of wire. Digital cable
Television and cable Internet services use radio frequency modems to provide the increasing bandwidth needs of modern households. Using a modem also allows for frequency-division multiple access to be used, making full-duplex digital communication with many users possible using a single wire Wireless modems come in a variety of types, bandwidths, and speeds. Wireless modems are often referred to as transparent or smart. They transmit information that is modulated onto a carrier frequency to allow many simultaneous wireless communication links to work simultaneously on different frequencies. Transparent modems operate in a manner similar to their phone line modem cousins. Typically, they were half duplex, meaning that they could not send and receive data at the same time. Typically transparent modems are polled in a round robin manner to collect small amounts of data from scattered locations
That do not have easy access to wired infrastructure. Transparent modems are most commonly used by utility companies for data collection. Smart modems come with a media access controller inside which prevents random data from colliding and resends data that is not correctly received Smart modems typically require more bandwidth than transparent modems and typically achieve higher data rates. The IEEE 802.11 standard defines a short range modulation scheme that is used on a large scale throughout the world WiFi and WiMax Wireless data modems are used in the WiFi and WiMax standards, operating at microwave frequencies.

Yep. Your wrong. Direct quote from wikipedia.

Tapatalk. Samsung Moment. Yep.

 

[BlackDynamite]

Yep. Your wrong. Direct quote from wikipedia.

Tapatalk. Samsung Moment. Yep.

I am NOT wrong, lol. Also direct from Wiki (and probably in the first chapter of any textbook on the subject):

Modem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"A modem (modulator-demodulator) is a device that modulates an analog carrier signal to encode digital information..."

So since Sprint's network is all digital, no analog, then there is NO modem using the Sprint network. If you want to be technical, that is (since you told me to go look up the definition of modem).

 

[RiverOfIce]

Yep. Your wrong. Direct quote from wikipedia.

Tapatalk. Samsung Moment. Yep.

You can not win this, but thank you for trying. You can not talk to someone when they plug there ears and scream as aloud as possible to not hear you.

After all you got him in his own trap. From the wiki modem page.

WiFi and WiMax

Wireless data modems are used in the WiFi and WiMax standards, operating at microwave frequencies.
WiFi is principally used in laptops for Internet connections (wireless access point) and wireless application protocol (WAP).

 

[IOWA]

Yep. Your wrong. Direct quote from wikipedia.

Tapatalk. Samsung Moment. Yep.

I am NOT wrong, lol. Also direct from Wiki (and probably in the first chapter of any textbook on the subject):

Modem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"A modem (modulator-demodulator) is a device that modulates an analog carrier signal to encode digital information..."

So since Sprint's network is all digital, no analog, then there is NO modem using the Sprint network. If you want to be technical, that is (since you told me to go look up the definition of modem).

Definitions change as technology changes. Radio modem, that's what your mobile uses. It's still a modem. Just works differently.

Do you argue with gravity as well?

Tapatalk. Samsung Moment. Yep.

 

[BlackDynamite]

Definitions change as technology changes. Radio modem, that's what your mobile uses. It's still a modem. Just works differently.

Do you argue with gravity as well?

Tapatalk. Samsung Moment. Yep.

Don't try to act like a smartass and tell me to look up a definition, and then try to put it on me when the definition isn't what you claimed it to be.

Bottom line- a modem is a device used to convert analog signals to digital, and digital signals to analog. Clearly, that is not what the radio in a Sprint phone is doing. Period. Sprint's network is all digital, there is no analog signal. Modulator-Demodulator. That is NOT what is happening in a Sprint phone. So don't try to get technical and tell me to look up a definition if you aren't willing to accept the actual definition.

There is no 5 GB cap on Sprint's unlimited data plans. and it would be illegal if there were such a cap on something marketed as unlimited (as Verizon found out, and changed their plan descriptions accordingly).

My point stands that if there were such a limit, then it would clearly spell it out the same way Sprint spells out the 5 GB limit on the data cards.

And no, abusing the system is not the same thing as a set cap. And with enough people going over 5 GB all the time with no penaties from Sprint, we can be sure Sprint doesn't have some rule that 5 GB is considered abuse.

 

[IOWA]

Definitions change as technology changes. Radio modem, that's what your mobile uses. It's still a modem. Just works differently.

Do y

Don't try to act like a smartass and tell me to look up a definition, and then try to put it on me when the definition isn't what you claimed it to be.

Bottom line- a modem is a device used to convert analog signals to digital, and digital signals to analog. Clearly, that is not what the radio in a Sprint phone is doing. Period. Sprint's network is all digital, there is no analog signal. Modulator-Demodulator. That is NOT what is happening in a Sprint phone. So don't try to get technical and tell me to look up a definition if you aren't willing to accept the actual definition.

There is no 5 GB cap on Sprint's unlimited data plans. and it would be illegal if there were such a cap on something marketed as unlimited (as Verizon found out, and changed their plan descriptions accordingly).

My point stands that if there were such a limit, then it would clearly spell it out the same way Sprint spells out the 5 GB limit on the data cards.

And no, abusing the system is not the same thing as a set cap. And with enough people going over 5 GB all the time with no penaties from Sprint, we can be sure Sprint doesn't have some rule that 5 GB is considered abuse.

Yes, they do. It's in your contract. Arguing with gravity doesn't mean your going to win.

I guess your definition of a car starter is a person with a big metal crank too.

Oh and uh, better a smartass than a dumbass.

Tapatalk. Samsung Moment. Yep.

 

[BlackDynamite]

Yes, they do. It's in your contract. Arguing with gravity doesn't mean your going to win.

I guess your definition of a car starter is a person with a big metal crank too.

Oh and uh, better a smartass than a dumbass.

Tapatalk. Samsung Moment. Yep.

It is NOT in the contract. Again...

If I go to Sprint's website as a new customer the plan says unlimited. If I sign up for that plan, and then sign into my online account to check my usage, the data says unlimited.

If I do the same thing with a data card plan, the description says it has a 5 GB limit, and the online usage also shows a 5 GB limit.

The plan is clearly unlimited, and there is nothing in the fine print indicating otherwise. and no, the "imbedded modem" referred to in the fine print is not something contained in a cell phone.

Gateways, routers, adapters, access points, etc, all use digital signals. Modems use analog signals and convert them to digital.

And none of that has anything to do with gravity. You're the one denying the obvious definition here, not me. And that is ironic since it wa you who told me to look it up, lol.

I've never heard of Sprint taking action on anyone for using 5 GB of data on their unlimited plan. And again, abusing it by using 100 gigs is not the same thing.

Incidentally, that big metal crank is still exactly how a car starter works today. The only difference is an electric motor turns it now instead of a person.

 

[IOWA]

Yes, they do. It's in your contract. Arguing with gravity doesn't mean your going to win.

I guess your definition of a car starter is a person with

It is NOT in the contract. Again...

If I go to Sprint's website as a new customer the plan says unlimited. If I sign up for that plan, and then sign into my online account to check my usage, the data says unlimited.

If I do the same thing with a data card plan, the description says it has a 5 GB limit, and the online usage also shows a 5 GB limit.

The plan is clearly unlimited, and there is nothing in the fine print indicating otherwise. and no, the "imbedded modem" referred to in the fine print is not something contained in a cell phone.

Gateways, routers, adapters, access points, etc, all use digital signals. Modems use analog signals and convert them to digital.

And none of that has anything to do with gravity. You're the one denying the obvious definition here, not me. And that is ironic since it wa you who told me to look it up, lol.

I've never heard of Sprint taking action on anyone for using 5 GB of data on their unlimited plan. And again, abusing it by using 100 gigs is not the same thing.

Incidentally, that big metal crank is still exactly how a car starter works today. The only difference is an electric motor turns it now instead of a person.

Your wrong bud. Why don't you call sprint tier 2 and ask them. I have. The definitions of words evolve over time. You taking one and the first meaning of the word doesn't represent the current and expanded uses/meanings of the word. Quit arguing about arguing. everytime you go up against me you lose. And lose bad, then try to deny facts. Your losing yourself credibility with every ridiculous post you make, denying reality.

But by your definition, I guess cable modems, and dsl modems, both use analog signals too.

EDIT: also, to respect the forum and its staff, who have asked me not to draw out arguments I've already won, I will not be replying to any more of your posts in this thread. Your arguing with yourself, and reality. And I'm not getting banned or infracted because someone doesn't know how to read past the frst entry in a dictionary.


Tapatalk. Samsung Moment. Yep.

 

[BlackDynamite]

Your wrong bud. Why don't you call sprint tier 2 and ask them. I have. The definitions of words evolve over time. You taking one and the first meaning of the word doesn't represent the current and expanded uses/meanings of the word. Quit arguing about arguing. everytime you go up against me you lose. And lose bad, then try to deny facts. Your losing yourself credibility with every ridiculous post you make, denying reality.

But by your definition, I guess cable modems, and dsl modems, both use analog signals too.

EDIT: also, to respect the forum and its staff, who have asked me not to draw out arguments I've already won, I will not be replying to any more of your posts in this thread. Your arguing with yourself, and reality. And I'm not getting banned or infracted because someone doesn't know how to read past the frst entry in a dictionary.


Tapatalk. Samsung Moment. Yep.

DSL uses a router, not a modem (at least the current DSL technology, I think it actually started out as an analog signal bakc in the day though). If you call it a modem, you are incorrect. I don't know about cable so I won't say for sure. But if it is a digital signal, then it is technically not a modem.

No need to reply. The facts speak for themselves- my usage says unlimited. And it is illegal for it to say unlimited if it really isn't. Period. Especially when the data card plans clearly say they are not unlimited.

 

[Caloy]

Most DSL connections use a modem, the router connects to the modem to redistribute the bandwidth to multiple end-users. There might be a few ISP that might be fully digital already (honestly I don't know any), but most of the ISP would still require analog transmission which requires a modem to make it a digital.