Evo 4G vs Captivate

[MegatronVsMe]

Sooo, I have the Evo, i HAD the Galaxy S captivate.
I love my evo waaay more, and im not a very "tech savvy" type of guy. I know my way around a phone and know how to do most things and figure stuff out fairly quickly, but as far the insides go,"Processors" and "CPUs" and all that stuff, im a moron with.

What im trying to get at is, around this forum ive seen posts saying how much better the "specs" are on the captivate, how much better the hummingbird is then the snapdragon.

Now, i admit the captivate is way better with graphics and gaming smoothness (Like theres a ton of games on android anyways..) but when it comes to speed and laginess, the evo blows it out of the water, or so ive seen. Two of my friends have the captivate (from my recommendation when i had it, still a great choice btw) and ive gone on thiers, cleared everything (Cookies and such) ATKilled everything and gone through simple tasks. Which includes opening apps,send messages and running apps and browser. I dont understand how the "specs" could be that much better on the galaxy s line if the evo is smoking it like its nothing. I mean seriously, were both on 3G and i get done at least 1 1/2-2 secs before them with opening up everything.


Just curious as to why, what exactly is in our phones.
Sorry this was super long, probably wont get too much of a response

 

[EarlyMon]

Many of the Hummingbird specs are fallacious as posted in most every blog - because they disagree with Samsung's own published datasheet specs.

Tech blogs are really crappy for learning about what a phone can do - especially as they all start by posting rumors. One starts, everyone picks it up - in one case, I traced (and posted here) the history of one tech rumor that resulted in a charge of one company doing a cover-up. What really happened was Jerk A misrepresented a press release in his article in a major newspaper, sensationalized in his blog, Jerks b thru K each added more to the story, until Jerk A didn't recognize it as his own exaggerated work re-exaggerated, he thought it was an actual update on the story. He approached the company for verification (being an "actual journalist") and they told him exactly where they thought he and his so-called story should go. Result - he reported that it must all be true, they were very angry at him refusing to comment, and that proved it.

So much for tech blogs.

All of the superphone processors have more in common than not, despite what the hoopla says. The Hummingbird does indeed have the edge in graphics. That said, I exposed another round of claims for the big 4 processors and exposed that there was an absolutely exaggerated claim in millions of triangles per second (an important metric for graphics) - yet another case of exceeding the manufacturers data sheet by a factor of 8. I didn't mind being laughed off and having tech blog links thrown at me - I understand how that looks to people.

The Snapdragon's biggest drawbacks are 1) many people think it has no GPU (when in fact all superphone processors have a CPU, a GPU and various other processing cores for digital signal processing, image processing, and that sort of thing) 2) it was the first and thanks to the tech blogs, its earlier heritage is dogged something fiece when that's baloney - the Snapdragon doesn't suck, and 3) it's built using 65 nm semiconductor manufacturing processes whereas the others were built at 45 nm.

Point 3 means a Snapdragon is going to take a bit more power to get the same job done compared to a 45 nm equivalent.

There are design tradeoffs in all of them and their design age DOES have to be taken into account - as you've noted and I've stated, sure expect better graphics - for some/many tasks - on the Hummingbird and do take note that the Snapdragon's older.

BUT - it just doesn't suck. The old Snapdragon is actually quite good.

If you owned a tech blog, which of these two stories do you think would net you more advertising click thrus?

1. This just in, the differences on the new processors are going to be overwhelmed by the system software (such as vendor-added GUIs) until you can't see much of a difference, so there's no exciting news here other than to tell you just try them and get the one you like!
2. This just in, new phone uses incredible new processor that changes your digital life and everyone that doesn't learn about this is a total hiney muncher and we're the first ones to break the new specs!

And that's why your Evo with apparently worse specs does a better job than your old Captivate in some areas while lagging in others.

If and when we see properly architected systems using multiple core CPUs (and upgrades in all other processing cores to match, dual-CPU alone isn't enough) then this whole area of discussion is going to evaporate as our single-CPU chips become obsolete and we'll do it all over again.

While many will argue that single-core models are already obsolete, that's not practically true - in practice, you can't buy a phone here yet based on one of the new processors.

FWIW - all superphone processors are called SoC processors - system-on-chip - an entire chunk of a sophisticated PC motherboard is in that one chip, and in many ways, it's more sophisticated than your laptop. These processors don't run at 1 GHz - they run at a variable speed up to 1 GHz. If you run few processes, for example, they run slower to conserve battery life - if you run more, they run faster so you notice no lag in your apps (if your phone's set up right) at the expense of some power. This is why some apps seem to eat more battery, btw. You laptop won't do that - it just eats power to run at a constant speed and wastes a lot of that power as heat when it's not really busy.

Don't even start me on published benchmarks.

And forget the quick review videos where the phones are yanked out of the boxes - meaning: all config options on to wow you, the customer - and then given shoot-outs that claim to prove things. That sort of thing can be done right - but that sort of actual video is a lot more rare than you think.

You're not running a Snapdragon, by the way.

You're running apps launched by HTC Sense on the Android operating system running on a phone motherboard that includes a lot of important silicon, including a Snapdragon SoC processor.

Same way you never ran on a Hummingbird.

Boring isn't it?

But true.

As you've seen, the best bet is to try them for yourself, pick the one right for you.

 

[toomuchgame441]

Great post earlymon. I think I agree, the hummingbird processor was a lot of hype. I too initially assumed the galaxy s would have smoother usage. But after eventually going with my Evo I learned it a not only powerful device but a Damn fast one also. So glad with decision.

 

[JunBringer]

That was enlightening EarlyMon. Thanks!

 

[dan330]

yeah.. I agree... with you EarlyMon.

but to help give more direct attempt to answer the OP..

I have 2 things that I want highlight; these might help with making the EVO a little more responsive:

1. EVO has 1GB/512MB of memory on board to use. this will help the OS with manage of running apps and IO needs. It will do less IO because i has more room to work. Which frees the CPU to run the app. If the Captivate is the same as the EPIC; it only has 512mb/512mb

2. EVO is running Froyo... has the captive gotten the upgrade yet?

 

[MegatronVsMe]

yeah.. I agree... with you EarlyMon.

but to help give more direct attempt to answer the OP..

I have 2 things that I want highlight; these might help with making the EVO a little more responsive:

1. EVO has 1GB/512MB of memory on board to use. this will help the OS with manage of running apps and IO needs. It will do less IO because i has more room to work. Which frees the CPU to run the app. If the Captivate is the same as the EPIC; it only has 512mb/512mb

2. EVO is running Froyo... has the captive gotten the upgrade yet?

The captivate i dont believe has gotten the update yet. Crazy bastards. But i think the epic did?

 

[EarlyMon]

I believe that's correct. Good call on dan330's part. Froyo is a significant performance upgrade. Makes my point about what you're seeing more directly - you can't pull out any one part of the chain and make conclusions. You can only evaluate complete phones and decide what's right for you.

 

[dan330]

The captivate i dont believe has gotten the update yet. Crazy bastards. But i think the epic did?

No .. they have not... not an Official release!
There is a beta test update.. that was found .. but was quickly deleted. But world wide web still has it flying around. It is a really iffy release.. many have issues.. some run it just fine.

No word from Samsung or sprint about an official release date. Many said it was to be before xmas... I am sure they are now hoping for end-of-year. But who (corporate world) really does real work during this time???


query....
if samsung dont come through with a froyo update for Galaxy S phones till end February... and Honeycomb is being released for Nexus 1 and S; and other phone manufactures. Will anyone believe Samsung on their next big, world-wide, major, powerful, great-spec phone and promised full support?
I think they are really killing their creditability .. this behind the past miss-steps.

 

[EarlyMon]

Nexus One doesn't have a 2.3 release date last I looked. I was surprised that Andy Rubin said Honeycomb would go to cell phones. Existing? Dual core?

Samsung's committed to Android but as an organization seems to still be figuring out what that means.

For me, it doesn't mean a device with a Windows dependency like their Kies software.

And the market at large doesn't know to care about these things.

 

[t1jordan]

Many of the Hummingbird specs are fallacious as posted in most every blog - because they disagree with Samsung's own published datasheet specs.

Tech blogs are really crappy for learning about what a phone can do - especially as they all start by posting rumors. One starts, everyone picks it up - in one case, I traced (and posted here) the history of one tech rumor that resulted in a charge of one company doing a cover-up. What really happened was Jerk A misrepresented a press release in his article in a major newspaper, sensationalized in his blog, Jerks b thru K each added more to the story, until Jerk A didn't recognize it as his own exaggerated work re-exaggerated, he thought it was an actual update on the story. He approached the company for verification (being an "actual journalist") and they told him exactly where they thought he and his so-called story should go. Result - he reported that it must all be true, they were very angry at him refusing to comment, and that proved it.

So much for tech blogs.

All of the superphone processors have more in common than not, despite what the hoopla says. The Hummingbird does indeed have the edge in graphics. That said, I exposed another round of claims for the big 4 processors and exposed that there was an absolutely exaggerated claim in millions of triangles per second (an important metric for graphics) - yet another case of exceeding the manufacturers data sheet by a factor of 8. I didn't mind being laughed off and having tech blog links thrown at me - I understand how that looks to people.

The Snapdragon's biggest drawbacks are 1) many people think it has no GPU (when in fact all superphone processors have a CPU, a GPU and various other processing cores for digital signal processing, image processing, and that sort of thing) 2) it was the first and thanks to the tech blogs, its earlier heritage is dogged something fiece when that's baloney - the Snapdragon doesn't suck, and 3) it's built using 65 nm semiconductor manufacturing processes whereas the others were built at 45 nm.

Point 3 means a Snapdragon is going to take a bit more power to get the same job done compared to a 45 nm equivalent.

There are design tradeoffs in all of them and their design age DOES have to be taken into account - as you've noted and I've stated, sure expect better graphics - for some/many tasks - on the Hummingbird and do take note that the Snapdragon's older.

BUT - it just doesn't suck. The old Snapdragon is actually quite good.

If you owned a tech blog, which of these two stories do you think would net you more advertising click thrus?

1. This just in, the differences on the new processors are going to be overwhelmed by the system software (such as vendor-added GUIs) until you can't see much of a difference, so there's no exciting news here other than to tell you just try them and get the one you like!
2. This just in, new phone uses incredible new processor that changes your digital life and everyone that doesn't learn about this is a total hiney muncher and we're the first ones to break the new specs!

And that's why your Evo with apparently worse specs does a better job than your old Captivate in some areas while lagging in others.

If and when we see properly architected systems using multiple core CPUs (and upgrades in all other processing cores to match, dual-CPU alone isn't enough) then this whole area of discussion is going to evaporate as our single-CPU chips become obsolete and we'll do it all over again.

While many will argue that single-core models are already obsolete, that's not practically true - in practice, you can't buy a phone here yet based on one of the new processors.

FWIW - all superphone processors are called SoC processors - system-on-chip - an entire chunk of a sophisticated PC motherboard is in that one chip, and in many ways, it's more sophisticated than your laptop. These processors don't run at 1 GHz - they run at a variable speed up to 1 GHz. If you run few processes, for example, they run slower to conserve battery life - if you run more, they run faster so you notice no lag in your apps (if your phone's set up right) at the expense of some power. This is why some apps seem to eat more battery, btw. You laptop won't do that - it just eats power to run at a constant speed and wastes a lot of that power as heat when it's not really busy.

Don't even start me on published benchmarks.

And forget the quick review videos where the phones are yanked out of the boxes - meaning: all config options on to wow you, the customer - and then given shoot-outs that claim to prove things. That sort of thing can be done right - but that sort of actual video is a lot more rare than you think.

You're not running a Snapdragon, by the way.

You're running apps launched by HTC Sense on the Android operating system running on a phone motherboard that includes a lot of important silicon, including a Snapdragon SoC processor.

Same way you never ran on a Hummingbird.

Boring isn't it?

But true.

As you've seen, the best bet is to try them for yourself, pick the one right for you.

Thanks for the information. Def... not boring.

 

[EarlyMon]

Thanks!

There's a nice benchmarking study coming up as a result of Android Forums users participating in a kinda cooperative thing for another site. We all saw those benchmarks by outsiders when the phones were new - but this is going to be a nicely detailed look at a few things with a decent sampling.

I'm looking forward to it - and I'll be sure to get the word out to everyone.