Firemen watch as sucidal man drowns

[ElasticNinja]

Thus we reach the ultimate failure of capitalism, that a dollar has more value than a man.

Its a bit hyperbolic to say that in this case - this is more of an issue how its the local and state governments who take the hit while the federal government can borrow like theres no repayment date.
The relationship between federal government, state and local is out of kilter in this sense

 

[Dark Jedi]

Because if the tax dollars were there, this man wouldnt have died needlesly.

How can you say that as one can only recieve help only if one ask for help. So even if the tax dollars was there. Not everyone wants help.

 

[nlsme]

How can you say that as one can only recieve help only if one ask for help. So even if the tax dollars was there. Not everyone wants help.

Umm, wrong. The police, and fire departments, save people everyday, without them asking for help. Every time someone tries to commit suicide, if it is known to authorities, the authorities WILL try to stop it. Except in this case. And the reason why? Money.

 

[jamor]

I am a Fire Captain in So Cal. The fact of the matter is this man WANTED to die! If a firefighter or a police officer tries to RESCUE this man, he most likely will fight against being rescued! If they are untrained in swift water or ANY water rescue, this man would possibly take the rescuer with him and BOTH drown! They didn't have a rescue boat nor the trained personnel because of BUDGET CUTS and THATS why this man drowned!

If firemen are weak, scared, and unable to save lives, well.. they shouldn't be firemen at all. Sounds like they were just a bunch of cowards to me.

So what if he wanted to die? Maybe he wouldn't the next day. People make mistakes. Good thing I didn't donate to the Firefighters when they called the other week.

I'm surprised a Fire Captain wouldn't help someone that is suicidal. Good to know that firefighters aren't as heroic as USA tried to force down our throats.

 

[Dark Jedi]

If firemen are weak, scared, and unable to save lives, well.. they shouldn't be firemen at all. Sounds like they were just a bunch of cowards to me.

So what if he wanted to die? Maybe he wouldn't the next day. People make mistakes. Good thing I didn't donate to the Firefighters when they called the other week.

I'm surprised a Fire Captain wouldn't help someone that is suicidal. Good to know that firefighters aren't as heroic as USA tried to force down our throats.

Typical blame the fire department for this guys mistake. You ever done water rescue? It's very dangerous and life guards will tell you if the person resists they can drown you to.Not every fireman is trained in it. How about stop feeling sorry for this guy. If he wanted help he would of looked for it. But no he chose suicide and thats what he got. What ever happened to holding a man accountable for his actions. Now all we have is oh let's feel sorry for him its not his fault. The firemen didnt do their job to protect him. If he need protecting then he should of never moved out his mama's house.

 

[nlsme]

Typical blame the fire department for this guys mistake. You ever done water rescue? It's very dangerous and life guards will tell you if the person resists they can drown you to.Not every fireman is trained in it. How about stop feeling sorry for this guy. If he wanted help he would of looked for it. But no he chose suicide and thats what he got. What ever happened to holding a man accountable for his actions. Now all we have is oh let's feel sorry for him its not his fault. The firemen didnt do their job to protect him. If he need protecting then he should of never moved out his mama's house.

Again, any person, that is not suffering from a terminal illness, that commits suicide is INSANE. a legal definition that is the inability to distinguish between right and wrong. It doesnt matter the guy "wanted" to die, its a moot point.

 

[Sak01]

Again, any person, that is not suffering from a terminal illness, that commits suicide is INSANE. a legal definition that is the inability to distinguih between right and wrong.

In that case, most of the suicidal people I've known are sane. They are perfectly able to distinguish right from wrong. Depression is the only mental illness they might suffer, not insanity, and they choose to end their lives to end the internal pain they're suffering.

On a side note, I have several friends who are lifelong teachers, and it's always intrigued (and saddened) me that they say the suicidal kids tend to be a lot brighter than average.

 

[nlsme]

In that case, most of the suicidal people I've known are sane. They are perfectly able to distinguish right from wrong. Depression is the only mental illness they might suffer, not insanity, and they choose to end their lives to end the internal pain they're suffering.

On a side note, I have several friends who are lifelong teachers, and it's always intrigued (and saddened) me that they say the suicidal kids tend to be a lot brighter than average.

Sorry, if you cant distuinguish, that taking your own life is wrong, you are INSANE. You dont have to have always been insane, but, to commit suicide shows you are unable to determine the difference between right and wrong, thus INSANE.

I will add again, that if you are suffering from a terminal illness, you know you are going to die, and wish not to endure the physical pain, of an incurable disease, you can make the determination with a SANE MIND, to end your own life.

Depression is not a terminal illness. And your IQ has nothing to do with the your mental state.

 

[ElasticNinja]

On a side note, I have several friends who are lifelong teachers, and it's always intrigued (and saddened) me that they say the suicidal kids tend to be a lot brighter than average.

I'm sad to say, that's no surprise to me

 

[Mmaarrkk123]

I just think its plain sick, dont care what the reasons and excuses are :/

 

[log1c]

The body of Raymond Zack was finally pulled from the 54-degree water by a passerby as local fire officials blamed budget cuts for their inability to save the man.

wha.....I don't even............can't believe that they were tied down by policy, but then again they were untrained and the man was suicidal

 

[Sak01]

I will add again, that if you are suffering from a terminal illness, you know you are going to die, and wish not to endure the physical pain, of an incurable disease, you can make the determination with a SANE MIND, to end your own life.

That's almost perfectly analogous to a depressed person choosing to end it all rather than continue a life of mental pain.

 

[noah way]

On a side note, I have several friends who are lifelong teachers, and it's always intrigued (and saddened) me that they say the suicidal kids tend to be a lot brighter than average.

"Ignorance is bliss."

Or so they say.

 

[nlsme]

That's almost perfectly analogous to a depressed person choosing to end it all rather than continue a life of mental pain.

Not really, as with terminal illness, it is unable to be treated. Depression, not so much.

 

[ElasticNinja]

"Ignorance is bliss."

Or so they say.

huh?

 

[Sak01]

huh?

I don't know if this is what he's alluding to, but apparently these kids are less shallow, more insightful, less materialistic and have a heightened sense of awareness of the world around them compared to their peers. They tend to be thinkers and from thinking they become troubled.

This is not to generalise all suicidal kids being the same, of course, but this is what I have inferred about the brighter ones. (I emphasise 'inferred' because I could be wrong on this)

Not really, as with terminal illness, it is unable to be treated. Depression, not so much.

But for many sufferers they can't see how it can be treated or can't see treatment being within reach and/or, in a vicious circle, suffer a complete loss of willpower to help themselves as a result of the depression. So there's no light at the end of the dark tunnel and they see no easy way out of it except through death.

 

[ElasticNinja]

I don't know if this is what he's alluding to, but apparently these kids are less shallow, more insightful, less materialistic and have a heightened sense of awareness of the world around them compared to their peers. They tend to be thinkers and from thinking they become troubled.

This is not to generalise all suicidal kids being the same, of course, Butler this is what I have inferred about the brighter ones. (I emphasise 'inferred' because I could be wrong on this)

While you are right in your first paragraph, I do not think that is the main reason
The main reason, IMO, is fitting in
I had a great time in primary (elementary) education, but when I moved into to secondary (high school) I didn't know anyone in my class and was to smart to fit in. The next year classes were moved around, and I basically acted way less clever than I was. And then everything went great. However its really hard to do this, and I suspect a great many can't, and others feel they are lying to themselves or still can't fit in.

 

[Sak01]

That makes sense and I can relate to that. I wonder if they ever got to the bottom of the Bridgend suicides.

 

[ElasticNinja]

That makes sense and I can relate to that. I wonder if they ever got to the bottom of the Bridgend suicides.

What was that, 15 people? Very sad

 

[nlsme]

But for many sufferers they can't see how it can be treated or can't see treatment being within reach and/or, in a vicious circle, suffer a complete loss of willpower to help themselves as a result of the depression. So there's no light at the end of the dark tunnel and they see no easy way out of it except through death.

I think that would fit with the definition of not being able to distinguish right from wrong.

 

[Sak01]

What was that, 15 people? Very sad

It went up to 26 by January last year. I don't know if there's been more since then.

I think that would fit with the definition of not being able to distinguish right from wrong.

Many people would only consider the moral implication of actions that relate to harming or offending others, or breaking the law (unless they're religious).

 

[nlsme]

Many people would only consider the moral implication of actions that relate to harming or offending others, or breaking the law (unless they're religious).

Lets look at why they are wrong, and not because of the moral aspect.
"But for many sufferers they can't see how it can be treated or can't see treatment being within reach"

So becuase they cant see it, it makes it true? No, they are WRONG. Depression is treatable.

"So there's no light at the end of the dark tunnel and they see no easy way out of it except through death."

Again, depression is treatable, so again they are wrong.

Now, to take your own life, because you cant see that there is treatment, you are wrong. And in taking it as far as ending your own life, you are INSANE. Now, IF depression wasnt treatable, and was a terminal illness...

 

[Sak01]

Lets look at why they are wrong, and not because of the moral aspect.

Then what you're talking about is a lack of knowledge (lack of belief even) not an inability to distinguish between what is morally right or wrong. That's ignorance (or disbelief) not insanity.

 

[nlsme]

So you are saying, that a person that takes his own life, without a terminal illness is doing so with a sane mind?

 

[Sak01]

So you are saying, that a person that takes his own life, without a terminal illness is doing so with a sane mind?

can do so with a sane mind. Yes, that's what I'm saying.