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Government Debt

wow, wonder has anyone here worked a position in a corperation that was worth a hill of beens and or owned a company?

35% is what companys pay in just income tax. HIGHEST on the planet..
depending on state and county adds to that,

so the "educated" seem to think by popping it up to like say 40% will reign in money!

yea id close shop or move like all the steel mills and manufacturing did, go over seas pay thier tax of 12%.. even 20% is a go!

i wonder if anyone who talks about raising taxes on rich ever think why this is needed in a economy that has now more govenment workers than ever,
got to pay em...

i listened to that speach,, what a load of tripe,
i had no money so i spent more cause i had no money and spent more and gave some away now you must pay.
or instead of me and our war machine or congress not getting paid you the old and crippled will not!
I am sick and tired of the democrats doing this, we cant pay our bills so we raise taxes or the rest suffer!!!!! "dont see em trying in the least to cut spending at all? do you? but they are first to scare raise taxes and do it again!!!! i hated clinton but however he did balence a budjet!!!!! cant take that away from him!
anyone ever been to a v.a hospital? ever see some of those places?
ever see what they cover and what they dont?
well get used to that cause thats the example of gov mandated healthcare
obtw um no ranking government employie is required to pay nor participate in it..~!
 
chinefoo said:
wow, wonder has anyone here worked a position in a corperation that was worth a hill of beens and or owned a company?

35% is what companys pay in just income tax. HIGHEST on the planet..
depending on state and county adds to that,

so the "educated" seem to think by popping it up to like say 40% will reign in money!

yea id close shop or move like all the steel mills and manufacturing did, go over seas pay thier tax of 12%.. even 20% is a go!

i wonder if anyone who talks about raising taxes on rich ever think why this is needed in a economy that has now more govenment workers than ever,
got to pay em...

i listened to that speach,, what a load of tripe,
i had no money so i spent more cause i had no money and spent more and gave some away now you must pay.
or instead of me and our war machine or congress not getting paid you the old and crippled will not!
I am sick and tired of the democrats doing this, we cant pay our bills so we raise taxes or the rest suffer!!!!! "dont see em trying in the least to cut spending at all? do you? but they are first to scare raise taxes and do it again!!!! i hated clinton but however he did balence a budjet!!!!! cant take that away from him!
anyone ever been to a v.a hospital? ever see some of those places?
ever see what they cover and what they dont?
well get used to that cause thats the example of gov mandated healthcare
obtw um no ranking government employie is required to pay nor participate in it..~!
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I actually own a small business. I am not rich, and I pay a far higher percentage than the 20 largest corporations in America. Yes, I see trillions being proposed in cuts, yet the Republicans are against taking away tax breaks for the richest of the rich. Warren Buffet himself has stated his housekeeper pays a higher percentage than he does. BTW, it was Republicans that started the wars, without funding them no less.
 
Knewz said:
Let's file for chapter 11!
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We need some way to push the reset button. It's just out of control and we can't afford it any more. But no one wants to look past the next election to make any sort of meaningful changes because we're at the point where the changes that need to be made are going to be extremely painful.
 
A.Nonymous said:
We need some way to push the reset button. It's just out of control and we can't afford it any more. But no one wants to look past the next election to make any sort of meaningful changes because we're at the point where the changes that need to be made are going to be extremely painful.
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Yeah, painful to the poor. At least, if the the republicans get their way. Obama is taking lots of heat from the left for the cuts he is willing to make, lets see the republicans do something that draws criticism from the right. It wont happen.
 
yea im part owner in a small company also, and yes we pay a lot more than some "illinois",

the "tax loopholes" are also used by us probably you also,,,
if they didnt exist we would go under in one year!!!

they need to drop the corp tax rate to like 26% and close ALL the loopholes!

companys would return!

i forgot who put it out there a while back, but it was stated by taxing the rich/ companys all of em more.
Obama said it would balance out. both partys said point blank that in 10 years only 500 billion would be collected,,,,, however we spend on avarage 1 to 2 and up to some clod 6.5 trillion over what they get!

need to cut government jobs, that would help a little. what would really help us all out ,,,
create a foren policy of nutrality!!!!!!!!!
i think 10 or 20 years of no wars would really help us in long run!
 
A.Nonymous said:
That's my point exactly. People want to bash the rich for moving jobs overseas and ignore the reasons why they do it. Here it's made out that the rich are just unpatriotic, commie bastards who hate America and that's why they move jobs out of the States. The fact of the matter is it is not in their economic best interests to keep jobs in the States.
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If there is no domestic economic benefit to certain tax laws, why were they passed?

Because government is owned by business. This is the critical point. Government passes legislation that benefits their corporate donors. In many cases the corporations (or their lobbyists) write the actual legislation. Political negotiations in congress are about adding your favorite donor to (or removing your donor's competition from) the list of beneficiaries.

Because of the foreign investment tax credit, almost all of the TARP money that was supposed to jump-start the US economy has been invested overseas. This is taxpayer money that private investors are using to generate tax-free profit.
Now if that money had been invested here ...

Repeal the Foreign Investment Tax Credit
 
There's lots of things that need to be done.
The %of GDP taxed is far too low, and federal spending is also far too high.
Tax rises for the middle class can be offset by declining healthcare costs. If the government implemented a UHC system, personal health spend could decline drastically, while government spending stays level.
There is probably lots of fat to be cut. Multiple semi binding reports could be implemented, with regards to taxation, spending, government agencies.
Ultimately though, after a few years of cuts, it will be the rates of payment that would need to cut.


Also what the hell are the Republicans doing? It seems crazy.
 
noah way said:
If there is no domestic economic benefit to certain tax laws, why were they passed?

Because government is owned by business. This is the critical point. Government passes legislation that benefits their corporate donors. In many cases the corporations (or their lobbyists) write the actual legislation. Political negotiations in congress are about adding your favorite donor to (or removing your donor's competition from) the list of beneficiaries.

Because of the foreign investment tax credit, almost all of the TARP money that was supposed to jump-start the US economy has been invested overseas. This is taxpayer money that private investors are using to generate tax-free profit.
Now if that money had been invested here ...

Repeal the Foreign Investment Tax Credit
Click to expand...

Why would businesses demand that laws be passed that increase their operating costs here in the States? Why would a business do this? There are people out there who think that businesses are not paying enough taxes therefore we need to pass laws forcing them to fork more of their money over to the feds. The businesses respond by moving their jobs overseas and are then labeled as "unpatriotic".
 
nlsme said:
Yeah, painful to the poor. At least, if the the republicans get their way. Obama is taking lots of heat from the left for the cuts he is willing to make, lets see the republicans do something that draws criticism from the right. It wont happen.
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It will be painful for everyone, but more painful for those who are more dependent on the feds for their day to day existence than those who are not. But it's something that needs to be done. What we've been doing is simply not working.
 
nlsme said:
FACT is, you havent either.
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Never said I did read it. If I did, I am wrong. not sure I ever said I read the entire bill. I do, however, deal with people that have read it and in most cases, they have not read the entire bill, either. I have read quite a bit, however.

Fact is, the bill is bad and it will likely be tossed out. Here is hoping we elect someone who is qualified this time.
 
Expenditure cuts hurt the poor much more then the middle class, and barely touch the rich.
That said they are more desirable then tax cuts, which hurt the economy more.
A 2:1 ratio of cuts to taxes would be nice.
However the US already has a small tax base so the situation may differ compared to your average industrialised country
 
chinefoo said:
35% is what companys pay in just income tax. HIGHEST on the planet..
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If only it were true ...

Bank of America took $336 billion in bailouts in 2009, but in 2010, flush with $4.4 billion in profits, it paid no taxes.

Boeing just received $35 billion from our government to build 179 airborne tankers, but despite nearly $10 billion in profits from 2008 to 2010, it too paid no taxes, again thanks to foreign tax havens.

Citicorp took $476 billion from the bailout and then made monster profits in 2010, yet it paid no taxes, thanks to 427 subsidiaries in tax havens like the Cayman Islands and Hong Kong.

Exxon/Mobil, received huge oil subsidies from the government and earned $45 billion in 2009 but paid no taxes, again thanks to stashing profits in places like the Bahamas and Singapore.

Google utilizes a technique that moves most of its income through Ireland and Netherlands to Bermuda, making its tax rate 2.3 percent.

Mega Pharmaceuticals Merck earned $9 billion in profits and paid no taxes in 2010, while Pfizer (largest drug maker) owed $10 billion in taxes but found the necessary loopholes to pay no taxes

News Corporation, Rupert Murdoch
 
A.Nonymous said:
It will be painful for everyone, but more painful for those who are more dependent on the feds for their day to day existence than those who are not. But it's something that needs to be done. What we've been doing is simply not working.
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How is it going to be painful for the rich? Unless, of course, they get tax increases. But, that won't happen, because the Republican's would rather put us all in the garbage disposal first.
 
LOL.

One thing really sticks with me on this one. We are 39th in the world for gdp vs debt. The debt is not really that bad compared to the past, because obama has managed to grow the economy even in the a depression, compared to normal growth of course. Do we need to start reducing the budget, yes, but we also need to get out of this downturn, which requires the government taking on new debt.

Honestly, if raise the debt with a minor reduction in spending and a massive increase in revenue would continue to grow the economy at about 2-4% increase for gpd, while reducing the debt about 10%.


Here is the big, huge, gigantic, and horrible but. We need to return back to presidents Clinton budget proposal.

End the two wars, savings about 2 trillion dollars in the 5 years. Cut the military to about 1/6th the size today, stop being the world police. End the tax breaks for the top 1%. End the subsidies to any corporation that manufactures out side the united states. Tax companies that manufacture or displace workforce overseas, if they sell the products inside the united states.

End social security for anyone under the age of 45. End medicare for anyone under the age of 45. Cut medicaid to 1/10th the price that it is now. Replace obamacare, medicaid, medicare, with universal healthcare.

Increase public spending on every sector of infrastructure by a fact of 100. Focusing mainly on telecommunications, mass transportation, electric options, and power structures. Tax and replace gas powered engines.

If you do the above you could get the debt down to about 5 trillion dollars in about 5 to 15 years and have a huge economic boom.

Of course it would create a few social problems down the road. The American dream would have to be declared dead.


Defaulting or declaring bankruptcy would turn this country from a 1st world country to a 3rd world country in 5 years. The current republican plan is no better then defaulting. If obama bends to the republicans and the republican plan passes, the economy will be permanently damage and we will have to declare bankruptcy.

The republican can not win the next election unless the economy is bad. They know this and have offered a plan that is bad for everyone.
 
A.Nonymous said:
Why would businesses demand that laws be passed that increase their operating costs here in the States? Why would a business do this? There are people out there who think that businesses are not paying enough taxes therefore we need to pass laws forcing them to fork more of their money over to the feds. The businesses respond by moving their jobs overseas and are then labeled as "unpatriotic".
Click to expand...

They don't care how they make money, they only care how much money they make. They don't get laws passed to increase their operating costs here, they get laws passed to avoid taxes and create other strategies (NAFTA, foreign investment) for maximizing profit.

The official corporate tax rate is 35%, but the effective tax rate is much lower. See Tax evaders' wall of shame
Outsourcing American jobs to foreign countries? Can't get much more unpatriotic than that.
 
I remember recommending tax increases for outsourced labor. I was basically shot down with a "been there, done that, LOTR knows nothing about history" (it's probably all true, LOL). So, how can it be done successfully?
 
lordofthereef said:
I remember recommending tax increases for outsourced labor. I was basically shot down with a "been there, done that, LOTR knows nothing about history" (it's probably all true, LOL). So, how can it be done successfully?
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Eliminate the foreign investment tax credit. Repeal NAFTA and CAFTA.

That's a start on what to do. As to how to do it, we'd have to wrest control of Washington away from the corporations. That would mean eliminating money in politics (lobbying reform). But the Supreme Court has rejected any corporate spending limits on elections, and any reform would have to be legislated by those who benefit from it.

Probability of success: zero.

Unless of course they don't raise the debt ceiling. Then it will probably be a matter of weeks to an American Spring.

Which might be preferable to whatever nonsense Washington will pass at the last minute to satisfy Goldman Sachs and the rest of the corporate financial complex.
 
hood420 said:
I agree, especially on your last point.

It's not the politicians that are stupid, it's the American people. We continue to vote for the same assholes, from the same parties, with the same policies, spewing the same bullshit out of their mouths. Then, we have the nerve to complain when they do what they said they were going to. It's pitiful really.

My proposal is that we forgo elections and from now on we appoint politicians by lottery. I really don't think the results would be any worse than what we have now.
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I guess all one has to do to hire a few folks with unshakable beliefs to get ones way. I bet it can be done with 2% of selective, highly compensated and promoted "believers", rather than 10% randomly selected believers.

Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute have found that when just 10 percent of the population holds an unshakable belief, their belief will always be adopted by the majority of the society.

Minority rules: Scientists discover tipping point for the spread of ideas
 
Bob Maxey said:
Never said I did read it. If I did, I am wrong. not sure I ever said I read the entire bill. I do, however, deal with people that have read it and in most cases, they have not read the entire bill, either. I have read quite a bit, however.

Fact is, the bill is bad and it will likely be tossed out. Here is hoping we elect someone who is qualified this time.
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First you post as an unequivocal fact that someone you don't even know didn't read the bill and then you state you didn't read it but you know others that did read it but not all of it just part of it. Now how much of it did these people read? 1 page? 2 pages? Now you list as a fact that this same bill is bad when you didn't even read it lol
 
shadowninty said:
What's wrong with NAFTA tbf?
Free trade areas benefit everyone usually.
Just sounds protectionist
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Two things in particular that I am aware of, both are multifaceted.

The first is the closing of domestic factories and their relocation to Mexico where US companies hire cheap labor without any requirement to provide health care or retirement, avoid environmental regulations and evade US taxes. Direct byproducts include job losses in the US, loss of tax revenue (increasing deficits) and significant industrial pollution in Mexico.

The second is related specifically to US agricultural subsidies. ADM and other corporations receive about $10 billion in taxpayer dollars to produce corn. So much corn is produced that there is difficulty finding markets for it. Thus we have corn fed beef (with cows requiring massive drug regimes because ruminants can't readily digest grain) and ethanol (which takes more energy to produce than it generates). And still we produce too much corn.

NAFTA allows ADM and others to sell their overproduction to Mexico, but because of the absurdly low price (production is directly subsidized by the US taxpayer) the corn sells for something like 20% less than it costs a Mexican farmer to grow it locally. This creates unemployment in Mexico, which encourages illegal immigration for Mexicans unemployed by US companies dumping their overproduction.

The US taxpayer, after subsidizing ADM's production, has to make up for the tax revenue lost by ADM's "free trade" as well as the additional costs imposed by increased illegal immigration.

So much for "free markets". Free trade agreements are anything but.
 
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