Help GPS is turning on for no apparent reason; can't find the app

[jvook]

I noticed about a month ago that my GPS indicator would be on for no reason at various times throughout the day on my AT&T HTC One M8. It doesn't just flash on, it will stay on, for a long time, and if it doesn't get a signal will just go indefinitely. No apps that would obviously use location services are necessarily running at these times (Waze, browser, yelp, etc.) I have tried closing all my running apps and it doesn't kill the icon. My phone is unrooted.

How can I determine why this is happening? I've run out of ideas at this point, and the problem is persistent. Attached are screenshots of running apps after closing everything that might have been accessing the GPS.

 

[SavageRobot]

Possibly Google Location Reporting or something maybe? Take a look in Settings>Location. See what apps are allowed to use GPS.

 

[Hadron]

Actually there are many more apps that can use location than you'll find there. You may be surprised how many have location privileges.

But yes, Google Location History is an obvious one to start with. Turn that off and see whether it helps.

 

[jvook]

Possibly Google Location Reporting or something maybe? Take a look in Settings>Location. See what apps are allowed to use GPS.

Thanks. I turned Location Reporting/History off and unfortunately the GPS was still blinking in the notification bar, but did go off a few moments later. I'll see if this has really helped and report back later.

 

[jvook]

So no luck on the location reporting. In fact, I got so frustrated I disabled location altogether. But that didn't help either. What the heck?

A few hours later I noticed the icon came back on, with location still off

 

[jvook]

Could the recent AT&T firmware update have something to do with this? I'm seriously getting paranoid about this phone now. This is insane

 

[Slug]

Could the E-911 service be the culprit? Being in Europe I'm not familiar with it... does it request periodic location updates?

 

[Unforgiven]

Could the E-911 service be the culprit? Being in Europe I'm not familiar with it... does it request periodic location updates?

You are most likely spot on. I work with E911 in an extended capacity and it uses GPS for all cell phone calls to 911. This is a requirement as many homes no longer have landlines.

Previously, all cellular 911 calls would go to the state police and be transferred to the local authority, which in an emergency can cost precious time. The new 911 system (currently rolling out here in MA) will be able to determine location within a few feet of your actual location via a combination of tower triangulation and GPS.

 

[jvook]

You are most likely spot on. I work with E911 in an extended capacity and it uses GPS for all cell phone calls to 911. This is a requirement as many homes no longer have landlines.
Previously, all cellular 911 calls would go to the state police and be transferred to the local authority, which in an emergency can cost precious time. The new 911 system (currently rolling out here in MA) will be able to determine location within a few feet of your actual location via a combination of tower triangulation and GPS.

Well that might explain it then. I am in Boston so if it is rolling out now that makes sense as a cause. Perhaps just a coincidence but I wonder if the last system update included that functionality.

It's very aggressive and persistent. If there is a bad GPS signal (deep indoors) it will go on and on for several minutes so I would have noticed it before. Shouldn't it only be pulling location data if I'm actually calling 911 though? I don't think they need to be checking in to see where I am all day.

I called AT&T support and they said I would have to do a master reset and check if the problem persists. So I guess I'll have to give it a try at this point.

 

[Unforgiven]

I don't know the ins and outs on the phone side and honestly, the back end hasn't been turned on yet as the GIS mapping and data quality is still ongoing, I believe it relies on knowing the location when the call is placed so it can be dispatched locally. That's why it can't wait until call time to figure out exactly where it is. I'll make an educated guess that it uses course location to help it understand when it needs to update fine location, but that's just a guess.

 

[jvook]

AT&T released a new update and my issue has been fixed. This issue still bothers me though because one way or another my phone was connecting to GPS with location turned off, as seen in the above screenshots. This is where I delve into paranoia, but what if the fix was just to hide the behavior?

1. Maybe it was e911 service. That's problematic because that means the police are getting constant location updates about my phone. Are they storing this data?

2. In order to override the location toggle, whatever was/is accessing it would need to be accessing the gps at a very low level in the OS (suggesting something like e911).

3. Android developers are unable/unwilling to mess with the e911, AFAIK ( i dont know exactly why)

4. e911 is required by law

Am I just being paranoid about this, or is it possible that E911 or some other service is tracking location without consent? I would not put it past the US government to do it. I know it sounds crazy, but it is equally crazy that my device was checking location with location turned off, to my mind.

Of course, I would imagine someone smarter than me would have noticed if this was going on. My thinking is, it's possible my device had some particular issue that caused an intentionally hidden behavior to be exposed.

Should I delve into this further? What should I look into?

 

[EarlyMon]

Nothing is tracking without consent.

Your HTC M8 lock screen weather widget needs location services or you'll have no weather report.

I have mine set to high accuracy (wifi, cell and GPS) for that to really work properly.

Remember - Google is tracking your location via wifi when you search from your pc browser.

On the phone, you can turn it all off, including app tracking (that is separate from but tied to the location settings) but you do so at the expense of weather reports - just turn it off in your browser settings.

And regardless of your phone apps, your carrier knows where you are so long as you have a signal.

 

[jvook]

See the screen above. All location is disabled in setting but still tracking

 

[jvook]

There is also a difference between AT&T knowing what cell tower I connected to , and GPS coordinates for my phone going directly to the police all day, even with the setting disabled.

 

[Bearsyzf]

Every since i got the 5.0.1 Lollipop upgrade my phone always says " searching using GPS " almost constantly and i'm with at&t also and i thinks it has to do with at&t.

 

[Unforgiven]

There is also a difference between AT&T knowing what cell tower I connected to , and GPS coordinates for my phone going directly to the police all day, even with the setting disabled.

The coordinates aren't going to the police all day. That are at the ready so if / when you call 911 they can be transmitted to them.

 

[jvook]

The coordinates aren't going to the police all day. That are at the ready so if / when you call 911 they can be transmitted to them.

I'm inclined to believe this but how can I verify it?

 

[jvook]

The coordinates aren't going to the police all day. That are at the ready so if / when you call 911 they can be transmitted to them.

Secondly, why wouldn't the act of checking GPS location generate a record in and of itself?

The reason that I ask is that the GPS check is a result of a law requiring e911 and can't be disabled. So if there is a record of it , it is inherently more suspicious and should be examined with higher scrutiny than usual.

 

[Unforgiven]

I'm inclined to believe this but how can I verify it?

An app like this will tell you what is being transmitted and where from our phone.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.antispycell.connmonitor&hl=en

Secondly, why wouldn't the act of checking GPS location generate a record in and of itself?

The reason that I ask is that the GPS check is a result of a law requiring e911 and can't be disabled. So if there is a record of it , it is inherently more suspicious and should be examined with higher scrutiny than usual.

Checking GPS involves reading signals from multiple goestationary satelites and tiangulating your location based on the information you receive from those satellites. You phone doesn't have to transmit anything to determine where it is, just listen for the signals and do some math (I realize that is oversimplified, but it gets the point across). This information can then be readily available to transmit should you call 911, but up until that point only your phone would know it's GPS location, unless you are able to determine using the app above that it is being sent somewhere.

 

[EarlyMon]

The coordinates aren't going to the police all day. That are at the ready so if / when you call 911 they can be transmitted to them.

^ This.

I'm inclined to believe this but how can I verify it?

By looking at the law, technology, and the police budget.

If they have a court order to track you, they're going to go to your cell phone company. I've actually tried to get my own records from the phone company to support a case where I was a witness. They absolutely refused 8 ways from Tuesday without a signed order from the judge.

Technology - I don't think you realize what would be involved in putting some sort of GPS tracker on you. The FBI can do it, with a warrant and a whole lot of record keeping and justification because of the expenses involved. I get you're not likely to just believe some guy on the Internet - but trust me, your local police do not have the budget for this.

And btw, if the FBI were tracking you I absolutely promise that the tools they use would not tip you off by lighting up your GPS icon.

If you have location services truly off and GPS is lighting up as active then you have something else going on. Remember that apps can ask for location permissions separately from Google services controlling location services.

 

[jvook]

^ This.


By looking at the law, technology, and the police budget.

If they have a court order to track you, they're going to go to your cell phone company. I've actually tried to get my own records from the phone company to support a case where I was a witness. They absolutely refused 8 ways from Tuesday without a signed order from the judge.

Technology - I don't think you realize what would be involved in putting some sort of GPS tracker on you. The FBI can do it, with a warrant and a whole lot of record keeping and justification because of the expenses involved. I get you're not likely to just believe some guy on the Internet - but trust me, your local police do not have the budget for this.

And btw, if the FBI were tracking you I absolutely promise that the tools they use would not tip you off by lighting up your GPS icon.

If you have location services truly off and GPS is lighting up as active then you have something else going on. Remember that apps can ask for location permissions separately from Google services controlling location services.

Thanks for the perspective. But I'm not worried about being personally tracked. I'm worried about systematic tracking associated with the mandatory e911 check, which would raise a host of issues including how long the data is kept, who has access to it, how is it secured, etc. Just because you are personally not concerned wouldn't mean it doesn't matter... it's pretty easy to imagine how it would be abused if there was a log or record of someone's daily movement s in the wrong hands.

 

[jvook]

An app like this will tell you what is being transmitted and where from our phone.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.antispycell.connmonitor&hl=en


Checking GPS involves reading signals from multiple goestationary satelites and tiangulating your location based on the information you receive from those satellites. You phone doesn't have to transmit anything to determine where it is, just listen for the signals and do some math (I realize that is oversimplified, but it gets the point across). This information can then be readily available to transmit should you call 911, but up until that point only your phone would know it's GPS location, unless you are able to determine using the app above that it is being sent somewhere.

Thanks this is what I was looking for. I appreciate the explanation

 

[EarlyMon]

Thanks for the perspective. But I'm not worried about being personally tracked. I'm worried about systematic tracking associated with the mandatory e911 check, which would raise a host of issues including how long the data is kept, who has access to it, how is it secured, etc. Just because you are personally not concerned wouldn't mean it doesn't matter... it's pretty easy to imagine how it would be abused if there was a log or record of someone's daily movement s in the wrong hands.

I did my best to make it clear.

The systemic tracking you've conjectured simply does not exist.

The emergency number mandate is there for an instant check when the caller can't respond and give location.

I'll try to do better in my future answers to others because I have no clue how you read that and interpreted it to mean I'm not personally concerned.

Although it is true - I'm not personally concerned. Because there's nothing to be concerned about. The system does not exist.

Glad you got the information you need, that's the main thing.

 

[jvook]

I'm sorry you've misinterpreted my comments. Yes you've been a bit dismissive, and were not understanding the issue, perhaps because I was unclear. Nevertheless, unforgiven has provided an explanation for the behavior and a way to verify. I do appreciate you taking the time to answer.

I did my best to make it clear.

The systemic tracking you've conjectured simply does not exist.

The emergency number mandate is there for an instant check when the caller can't respond and give location.

I'll try to do better in my future answers to others because I have no clue how you read that and interpreted it to mean I'm not personally concerned.

Although it is true - I'm not personally concerned. Because there's nothing to be concerned about. The system does not exist.

Glad you got the information you need, that's the main thing.

 

[EarlyMon]

I'm sorry you've misinterpreted my comments. Yes you've been a bit dismissive, and were not understanding the issue, perhaps because I was unclear. Nevertheless, unforgiven has provided an explanation for the behavior and a way to verify. I do appreciate you taking the time to answer.

You're going to get on a whole lot better with my answers (to others) if you note one thing about me -

If I'm ever feeling the least bit dismissive, I simply don't post. I don't dog people or waste time.

My answer was intended to augment what @Unforgiven said, not be dismissive and talk in parallel to it.

I understood your position quite well.

Thanks for letting me clarify that.

You appear to have trouble with my writing style - fair enough, others do as well.

To save your feeling dismissed again, I'll simply avoid answering your questions as my writing style is not something that I'm likely to change.

Sorry we got cross threaded, have a great weekend.