Help GPS issues?

[AlexanderA]

Re Beards:
I agree the specs of the DesireHD don't hold much over the SGS at all. It has more RAM which should help multitasking but otherwise its about equal. The cam flash doesnt mean much to me either as nonflashed pics are always the nicest anwyay.

Regarding the screen I don't know if you can compare the HD2 to the DesireHD, I think HD2 has a regular LCD screen instead of SLCD, which should make a difference. Also it runs other software and a better GPU, both of which play a roll in video performance aswell, although I believe SAMOLED still looks better probably. Video watching doesn't have much priority for me though.

The reason the DesireHD seems more desirable <g> to me is mostly the design, build quality&materials and the fact that its made by HTC instead of Samsung (Sense instead of Touchwiz, free offline Satnav, probably more solid software overall) and the fact that it will ship with Froyo and most likely get Android 3.0 when it arrives.

The DesireHD looks a bit more futureproof and probably a better user experience, where the SGS, despite its superb specs, with its uninspired design, cheap plastic build and its various issues make it hard to really appreciate it as the premium device that it's meant to be.

BTW have you had the opportunity to play with a DesireHD? Since you mention its video isn't that spectacular, I haven't been able to find any samples of it yet. I would expect it to be about similar to SGS videos, but it seems you have had a chance to try and found otherwise?

*still undecided, but tendency is with the HD still*

Btw I was at Vodafone shop yesterday and had a talk with one of the techservice guys. He said the return rate on SGS is pretty low, and he wasnt aware of any GPS issues when I asked him, only wifi and general connectivity issues, inability to be updated by users and camera issues. Odd since the GPS thing seems pretty universal.

 

[Beards]

Re Beards:
I agree the specs of the DesireHD don't hold much over the SGS at all. It has more RAM which should help multitasking but otherwise its about equal. The cam flash doesnt mean much to me either as nonflashed pics are always the nicest anwyay.

Regarding the screen I don't know if you can compare the HD2 to the DesireHD, I think HD2 has a regular LCD screen instead of SLCD, which should make a difference. Also it runs other software and a better GPU, both of which play a roll in video performance aswell, although I believe SAMOLED still looks better probably. Video watching doesn't have much priority for me though.

The reason the DesireHD seems more desirable <g> to me is mostly the design, build quality&materials and the fact that its made by HTC instead of Samsung (Sense instead of Touchwiz, free offline Satnav, probably more solid software overall) and the fact that it will ship with Froyo and most likely get Android 3.0 when it arrives.

The DesireHD looks a bit more futureproof and probably a better user experience, where the SGS, despite its superb specs, with its uninspired design, cheap plastic build and its various issues make it hard to really appreciate it as the premium device that it's meant to be.

BTW have you had the opportunity to play with a DesireHD? Since you mention its video isn't that spectacular, I haven't been able to find any samples of it yet. I would expect it to be about similar to SGS videos, but it seems you have had a chance to try and found otherwise?

*still undecided, but tendency is with the HD still*

Btw I was at Vodafone shop yesterday and had a talk with one of the techservice guys. He said the return rate on SGS is pretty low, and he wasnt aware of any GPS issues when I asked him, only wifi and general connectivity issues, inability to be updated by users and camera issues. Odd since the GPS thing seems pretty universal.

Mmmm....In reference to the Desire HD's screen, you are aware there is a lot of confusion as to whether or not it has the SLCD type.
Although HTC initially informed the media it would have an SLCD type it later became known HTC had backtracked and were using a standard LCD.
The word I found was HTC have a huge amount of Evo 4G 4.3" screens laying around which use the LCD screen.
Have a look at these two topics over in xda-devs here and here.

I admit the build quality on the DHD is second to none and makes the SGS seem 'Toy-Like' in comparison.
However, lets not forget all this build quality comes at a price of weight. It's much heavier than the SGS which granted is plastic but it uses a very strong synthetic to give added protection.
Then you have the screen build quality.
As you may or may not know, the SGS uses the super tough 'Gorilla Glass', which is the toughest you can get.

I watched a video some time back where a reviewer dropped his SGS from a height of 1.5mtrs onto a concrete road and it bounced twice landed face down and when he picked it up there wasn't a mark on the plastic shell nor the screen.

He did this a further two times with each getting higher.
In the end he almost threw it to the ground from a hieght well over 2mtrs and this time the screen cracked.
I'm still awaiting news on the DHD screen's toughness but I don't think it is 'Gorilla-Glass'.
If anyone knows any better, please do post.

So yes, on paper the DHD looks tougher but at a cost of being heavier.
However, when compared to the SGS (which looks fragile) it does not trounce so well in the real world.

Again it's whatever takes your fancy.... I'll more than likely purchase a DHD anyway; part for curiosity, part to test and part to give to my Wife ho is in need of a new phone.
She doesn't need much, just one which lets her know where the shops are.
EDITED:
I forgot to add the link to a good web page full of detailed information on the DHD.
Lots of photo's to look at as well as some example shots.
There's also a short 720p video. I downloaded it and all I can say is HTC have not learned from their mistakes.
It's very jerky (granted it's a You|Tube video) but also quite dark.
The example shots are also quite dark and the exposure/WB is wayyyyy off.
I can explain this in detail if you wish.
Anyway, here's the link.

 

[karnka]

Was unaware it might be LCD not SLCD. SAMOLED --> LCD might be just too big a drop.

 

[AlexanderA]

Thanks for the link. Unfortunately all images on that page are replaced by file-not-found banners for me, but the vids do work. Indeed not very impressive. The detail seems fair but colors are off and the changes in brightness are very harsh and not smooth at all. I wonder if thats the actual camera quality or software that can be improved upon later. But yeah for a 8mp camera thats disappointing. If you care to tell more then yes that will be very welcome

If the screen really is regular LCD that would kinda suck, especially with a 1230mAh battery. SLCD I dont really mind as it has both upsides and downsides compared to AMOLED.

Most important features in the phone for me include a decent camera, good GPS, PDA functionality, good mp3 player (using high-end headphones, so SQ has to be pretty good), a good browsing and daily-use experience, and playing around with apps and such. Gaming and watching video not really so much.
As you can see, the questionable GPS in the SGS is the only possible real dealbreaker here, for the rest its mostly esthetics.

NB it appears fate has decided to give me a little more time to tinker, as I just called in to inform about preordering the HD to make sure that was possible, only to realize my passport just expired last month and I'll have to renew that first. Unfortunately that means a strong discount will be unavailable by then, which was what had me on a time-pressure in the first place. Now that rush is gone, though I still want a new phone soon ofcourse

 

[Beards]

Thanks for the link. Unfortunately all images on that page are replaced by file-not-found banners for me, but the vids do work. Indeed not very impressive. The detail seems fair but colors are off and the changes in brightness are very harsh and not smooth at all. I wonder if thats the actual camera quality or software that can be improved upon later. But yeah for a 8mp camera thats disappointing. If you care to tell more then yes that will be very welcome

Most important features in the phone for me include a decent camera, good GPS, PDA functionality, good mp3 player (using high-end headphones, so SQ has to be pretty good), a good browsing and daily-use experience, and playing around with apps and such.
As you can see, the questionable GPS in the SGS is the only possible real dealbreaker here, for the rest its mostly esthetics.

NB it appears fate has decided to give me a little more time to decide, as I just called in to inform about preordering the HD and make sure that was possible, only to realize my passport just expired last month and I'll have to renew that first. Unfortunately that means a strong discount will be unavailable by then, which was what had me on a time-pressure in the first place. Now that rush is gone, though I still want a new phone soon ofcourse

Okay, here's the detail on the photo/video you asked......

If you look (unfortunately you say you can not see the photo's which is a shame ~ try copying th link and see if you can load it into either another page or saved as a graphic file.... However, it displays fine for me) at the photo which shows a street in London.
In this shot it is very dark (especially in the shop doorway and under the taxi). However the sky is bleached out with no colour or cloud showing.
Now if that shot had been exposed correctly and the WB also set correctly, with so much of the shot being underexposed one would think it has been set for getting the sky detail correctly. But when you look at the sky which is so bleached out you would then assume it's been set for the street.
In other words it is overexposed on the sky but under-exposed on the street.
Now that to a photographer is simply not right.... Either the sky or the street would be exposed correctly not both incorrectly.

What this tells us is that the HTC camera sensor is setting too high a parameter on high lighting (bleach-out) and setting too low a parameter on low lighting (under-exposing).
This is a fault on the sensor settings.
I would 'hope' the production models have been corrected but knowing HTC and their cameras I doubt this.

If you are aware the HTC HD2 had a very bad problem with it's camera when launched.
Basically for every shot you took it displayed in the centre a large pink circle.
I campaigned in xda-devs and sent off the information to HTC who took it and the end result was they corrected the 'pink' problem and shortly after released a firmware update.

So.... if it's a decent camera you are wanting you, HTC are renown for producing quite bad cameras from their past.
Even my Brother's Desire is not a patch on the SGS's camera. I know the SGS's screen does help but even after you copy both shots to a PC and look again it's quite clear which shot has come from which camera phone.

Samsung have a good history with cameras and they have used this well in the SGS.
The SGS has one of the best sensor's available. This is part down to it's super low f-stop for ging us better low lighting at higher ISO levels.

Next the Music.
You mentioned this is important to you.
The SGS's music player by default is actually superb and when coupled with the speaker it gives far better results than on both my HD2 and the Desire. The Desire in comparison is very soft and weak... missing a lot of treble in most areas.
I know the DHD is supposed to have Dolby SRS but again I'm doubting it'll beat the SGS.
Again Samsung have a great history with Audio. You only have to look at their Audio Hardware to see that.

Finally there's the option on the SGS to hook the phone directly to a TV using the Audio out.
This is done on a 4 Pole Audio Out to a 3 RCS Audio & Video in on a TV.
What this then gives is a picture on your TV of ALL the Samsung's screens ~ be that the Home screens, Applications, Internet Browsing or Games.

I don't play games myself but watching Need for Speed on the Galaxy S passed through to a TV is absolutely awesome.
On the Galaxy S you don't see the car's cockpit lurch yet on the TV screen each time you turn you see the cockpit lurch from side to side.

I'm sure there is more which I can bounce in favour to the SGS but I don't want to make this one sided.
The Desire HD is without doubt a great device with a bloody good Sense UI.
If operation is your choice then the DHD MUST be on your short-list.

Hope this has helped......

 

[AlexanderA]

copy/pasting the image location indeed lets me see the pics with a little extra work. And yeah they present a peculiar mix over oversaturation and undersaturation. I could probably live with it but its certainly not beating the SGS.

Sound is indeed excellent on the SGS from the reviews and RMAA analysis I've seen, one of the few phones that can be measured with the iphone for audio fidelity. Dolby SRS is a question mark like you said, earlier experiences I had with it have always been disappointing enough to disable it. Especially over good headphones its quite noticable that it just sounds less natural.

So yeah its basically down to the GPS functionality, the Sense and all its neat functions, and the attractive build. Of which GPS is still the only really major thing.
But given this, I may just opt to get the SGS and see how it treats me, I believe theres a 1 week no-questions-asked return period with Vodafone.

BTW yeah I was aware of the Gorilla glass, I saw a video where they tried to damage it with keys and other sharp objects and by dropping it. The keys did nothing to it, forcefully cutting into it with a boxcutter did scratch it some, and also there it took several drops on concrete before it broke. So thats not too bad at all.

Thanks for all the info and considerations. Not that I've made my pick now but atleast it puts the perceived superiority of the DHD a bit more in perspective. Now if only that GPS fix would finally come and turn out to make the GPS adequate it would make me feel a lot easier about going for the SGS.

 

[Beards]

Thanks for all the info and considerations. Not that I've made my pick now but atleast it puts the perceived superiority of the DHD a bit more in perspective. Now if only that GPS fix would finally come and turn out to make the GPS adequate it would make me feel a lot easier about going for the SGS.

You may be lucky and have one of the SGS's where there's no problem.
That's the fine tolerances on the SGS where it's effecting most but not all.

As to the GPS fix, my contact assures me the 'official fix' will indeed sort out the GPS.

 

[Reversesunset]

Unhappy with your broken phone? Let's call Samsung!
1-888-987-4357
Press 1
Then 6
Then 2
Then 4 to speak with a customer service representative. Go as high up as you can.

The more complaint tickets about the non-functional GPS that they have on record, the hotter the fire under their asses to send out an update that actually works.

 

[AlexanderA]

Unhappy with your broken phone? Let's call Samsung!
1-888-987-4357
Press 1
Then 6
Then 2
Then 4 to speak with a customer service representative. Go as high up as you can.

The more complaint tickets about the non-functional GPS that they have on record, the hotter the fire under their asses to send out an update that actually works.

Good idea, especially when returning it isnt an option. For me, if I do get an SGS and its GPS is faulty, I'll be returning it over and over until it works properly. Because thats just unacceptable for a 600$ phone.

 

[Xaxa]

The GPS on my Samsung Captivate was bad before getting the update.
It is now totally usuless. Can't get a lock on any satellites.

And i confirm that we can't access the GPS parameters anymore. (using *#*#... number)

 

[spark001uk]

My thoughts- im running JPH at mo, i confirm i did two 20min journeys with sygic 10 running, and it didnt falter once, although it was around a 1 minute TTFF (was only about 10sec on JM1). However, a few days previously i was in a city about 40 miles from where i live, when i switched on google maps in the city centre to find somewhere, and i couldnt get a lock at all. Wondering if it was having trouble getting hold of the local A-GPS file from the server, or whether it is the same fault being described by others maybe?

 

[AlexanderA]

The GPS on my Samsung Captivate was bad before getting the update.
It is now totally usuless. Can't get a lock on any satellites.

And i confirm that we can't access the GPS parameters anymore. (using *#*#... number)

So, pretty much it's the opposite of the rumored gps fix

Pretty frustrating how badly Samsung dropped the ball in this matter. This isnt just a bug its a malfunction, it should be way more of a priority than it seems to be. If it *is* a priority and it's taking this long to produce no fix, thats maybe even worse..

 

[Andyman10]

copy/pasting the image location indeed lets me see the pics with a little extra work. And yeah they present a peculiar mix over oversaturation and undersaturation. I could probably live with it but its certainly not beating the SGS.

Sound is indeed excellent on the SGS from the reviews and RMAA analysis I've seen, one of the few phones that can be measured with the iphone for audio fidelity. Dolby SRS is a question mark like you said, earlier experiences I had with it have always been disappointing enough to disable it. Especially over good headphones its quite noticable that it just sounds less natural.

So yeah its basically down to the GPS functionality, the Sense and all its neat functions, and the attractive build. Of which GPS is still the only really major thing.
But given this, I may just opt to get the SGS and see how it treats me, I believe theres a 1 week no-questions-asked return period with Vodafone.

BTW yeah I was aware of the Gorilla glass, I saw a video where they tried to damage it with keys and other sharp objects and by dropping it. The keys did nothing to it, forcefully cutting into it with a boxcutter did scratch it some, and also there it took several drops on concrete before it broke. So thats not too bad at all.

Thanks for all the info and considerations. Not that I've made my pick now but atleast it puts the perceived superiority of the DHD a bit more in perspective. Now if only that GPS fix would finally come and turn out to make the GPS adequate it would make me feel a lot easier about going for the SGS.

Apart from the fantastic screen and all the the other obvious virtues that people have been discussing (including one that hasn't been mentioned much..the graphics acceleration for watching movies) the big clincher for me personally on the SGS was it's support for SAP (SIM Access Profile) as well as the more common HFP.

That allows both my car phone systems to automatically download the SIM contents to the car unit and switch off the phone module in the SGS to conserve power. You also of course then get to use the car's vastly superior antenna so you can actually get a signal. Not sure if HTC support this, I know Android up to 2.1 generally doesn't.

The SGS has quite some spec, just incredibly frustrating that they haven't sorted out the GPS yet...but I live in hope

 

[Xaxa]

So, pretty much it's the opposite of the rumored gps fix

Pretty frustrating how badly Samsung dropped the ball in this matter. This isnt just a bug its a malfunction, it should be way more of a priority than it seems to be. If it *is* a priority and it's taking this long to produce no fix, thats maybe even worse..

Actually i got the GPS to work... if i keep the phone vertical... if it's horizontal i can't get a lock at all...
Not very convenient..

 

[o.maille]

Tracking hasn't been a major issue for me with the galaxy s, however the geo tagging of the photos has, took some photos in ireland and they ended up in the north sea by denmark, not a simple signal issue, i use high accuracy gps as part of my profession, may be a seperate issue to do with the exif data tagging or a mix up. I hope to check their distribution to see if there is a common translation error. it appears that the latitude is correct but error in the long.
In relation to the broadcom chip I have noticed issues when using wifi bluetooth and/or gps. If i'm on my head set when i get home and the phone connects to my router i sometimes loose the BT connection. Also if you loose a wifi connection it does not automatically re-connect (sometimes)
In relation to the use of flight mode, does disabling the wifi location help??
Anyone tried connection the phone to a reciever via bluetooth and nmea output, think i've an app that i can check with.


Edit; if you use taskiller to kill an app using gps you often need to disable and re-enable the gps.

 

[AlexanderA]

Well today I went to the Vodafone store to see if I could get the phone there without my recently expired ID being a problem. I could. So, with a little bit of anxiousness I decided to give it a try. When I mentioned the GPS issues again, I was told that only the 8gig versions have the problem, not the 16gig ones, Vodafone conveniently selling only the 16gig version. I had my doubts but theres only one way to find out right?

So here I am with my 16gig Galaxy S. Ofcourse I did a location lookup as soon as I had the chance. Good news: it located me pretty quick. Bad news: it situates me on the street parallel to the one I'm at. Telling me the accuracy is 50 meters.

Next step was going to Android Market to get MyTracks and the latest version of Google maps. Bad news: After 20 minutes it still says both downloads are 'starting'. With Vodafone data being 3.6mbps here, its safe to say it stalled. Not what I had hoped for

I plan to take the GPS out for a drive tonight to see how it does in a realistic scenario (its possibly reception on my balcony is so-so but ofcourse thats not the first scenario that enters my mind). Are there any other apps besides MyTracks and Google maps that I should get in order to keep a close eye on GPS performance?

Edit: downloading and installing apps works after I rebooted the phone. I'll report back when I played with the GPS some more.

On a positive note atleast the screen is every bit as awesome as it should be And the feel of the device is light but not cheap perse, it feels pretty solid. That was hard to judge in stores with those security dongles stuck to them

 

[AlexanderA]

I took my SGS out for a drive today of about half an hour each way, using Maps, Mytracks and GPS test to see how the GPS did.

GPS Test: 8-12 in view, 5-8 locked. SNR between 30 and 40 for most sats, sometimes a little over 40. Accuracy varied mostly between 16 and 32 feet. Time to get a fix was maybe 10 seconds.

In Maps, navigation was fine most of the time, but once or twice it lost me for a short while. The MyTracks results look pretty good, showing solid lines on the proper roads for pretty much the whole route, I could point out one or two places where it was off by a couple meters but not much more. Nothing like the rabbit-jumps and gross inaccuracies Ive seen on other peoples maps.

Model: i9000 16gig
Baseband: I9000XXJM2

 

[spark001uk]

Same for me more or less (running XXJPH), except first fix can be up to a minute sometimes. I used sygic mm10, gmaps, and gps test. Certainly none of the erratic behaviour some are reporting on JPH, although it did play up once on gmaps but i was a long way off my usual location. Maybe it's touch and go as to whether it plays up or not?

 

[o.maille]

Same for me more or less (running XXJPH), except first fix can be up to a minute sometimes. I used sygic mm10, gmaps, and gps test. Certainly none of the erratic behaviour some are reporting on JPH, although it did play up once on gmaps but i was a long way off my usual location. Maybe it's touch and go as to whether it plays up or not?

I'm getting snr of 23-28. Sat coverage will vary by location, here's a little windows tool to check;
Trimble - Planning Software Download

Erratic behavior is normal if you are in high rise areas or under tree cover due to reflections and bounced signals. Also if the wifi network assisted tracking is in use it is possible that the google photo car estimated the wifi hotspot wrong.

 

[o.maille]

Just compared a friends HTC G1. He gets a full signal lock INSIDE a building, with all ten satellites.

I don't. :-(

You can't get GPS inside, it works on line of sight so unless he was by a window and 10 sats were in the small area of the sky visible to the phone.

 

[luclin999]

You can't get GPS inside, it works on line of sight so unless he was by a window and 10 sats were in the small area of the sky visible to the phone.

Tell that to the Tom Tom 340 I am holding right now that has a lock on my location here in my study. The nearest window is about 25 ft away through a closed door.

 

[AlexanderA]

Tell that to the Tom Tom 340 I am holding right now that has a lock on my location here in my study. The nearest window is about 25 ft away through a closed door.

Indeed, even the Galaxy S can get an accurate fix indoors. It does have to be within a few meters from a window though (sight blocked by curtains), but I wonder why people would try to claim that's impossible. My old Nokia could get a fix inside from much farther away from the windows aswell.

 

[AlexanderA]

Awefully quiet on the update front

Although my Galaxy's GPS isnt all bad (locks quick and accurate but ocasionally loses its fix) its still very annoying when it happens cause the navi software goes nuts and starts telling me nonstop random directions until it has a fix again.

I still hope this is fixable but i'm still not too sure of it. Most rumored fixes are about the gps not being able to get a lock in the first place, which works fine on mine, it just seems incapable to keep a hold on enough sats to be able to switch to backup one as soon as one of the used sats disappears. It could be ineffective tracking/caching of sats but could also mean a weak gps reception (eg it really cant get a good signal from enough sats at that time).

Either way all in all I still don't regret getting my SGS, it truely is a great device in all other ways. Screen, sound, cam and cpu/gpu are all top notch. I rooted it and applied lagfix2 and headphone eq-fix for optimal satisfaction I can highly recommend it, I didn't run into much noticable lag but the fix still made everything *much* smoother and faster. LauncherPro on the lagfixed SGS makes for an incredibly smooth GUI.

All thats missing now is a reliable GPS :S i hope samsung won't disappoint us.

 

[Beards]

Awefully quiet on the update front

Although my Galaxy's GPS isnt all bad (locks quick and accurate but ocasionally loses its fix) its still very annoying when it happens cause the navi software goes nuts and starts telling me nonstop random directions until it has a fix again.

I still hope this is fixable but i'm still not too sure of it. Most rumored fixes are about the gps not being able to get a lock in the first place, which works fine on mine, it just seems incapable to keep a hold on enough sats to be able to switch to backup one as soon as one of the used sats disappears. It could be ineffective tracking/caching of sats but could also mean a weak gps reception (eg it really cant get a good signal from enough sats at that time).

Either way all in all I still don't regret getting my SGS, it truely is a great device in all other ways. Screen, sound, cam and cpu/gpu are all top notch. I rooted it and applied lagfix2 and headphone eq-fix for optimal satisfaction I can highly recommend it, I didn't run into much noticable lag but the fix still made everything *much* smoother and faster.

All thats missing now is a reliable GPS :S i hope samsung won't disappoint us.

It's definitely coming... that I am very sure of.

A little story.....

The Samsung Rose
Prior to the SGS launch, Samsung made a huge effort in promoting the SGS Rose.
It had a world wide P.R. voice with many shows (Singapore first) as Samsung wanted to make sure the world saw the SGS as the Rose to beat the i-Phone 4 Malus Blossum.

Then we have the question of timings.....
Apple's release date was looming ever closer and Samsung HAD to get the SGS Rose out on time and so it happened..... As said Singapore saw it first and the rose garden came to flower.

However, it was not long before it became evident that whoever cultured the roses didn't check the cuttings correctly as a lot of owners were complaining their roses were withering and losing their petals, not from just one flower but from other areas as well (GPS/WiFi/Lag/Filesystem).

They decided to then take the roses back to the place that carried out the cultivation (Broadcom) and found blight and all other pests on the roses that had escaped their attention.
These have now been successfully corrected and have for the past 6 weeks been flying around the globe in tests to make sure once they are returned to the flower bed there will no longer be any issues.

Unfortunately, right bang when the roses were to have their world wide update, another problem was found in the main stem (filesystem) and as such it's release for the end of September had to be put on hold.

A lot of customers complained on both Facebook & Twitter and I brought this to their attention via another Flower distributer (Clove) and armed with this information Samsung posted an apology on both these sites asking rose holders and the public to be patient.

In summary, Instead of the sweet perfumed Rose, Samsung have had nothing but a lot of bad smells this past couple of months. What should have been a world beating rose has turned out to be one of the biggest release of dandelions; with the wind blowing their weed seeds from one garden to another.

I strongly believe once this update 'finally' gets past approval and is released it will put right all the problems and we shall see what should have been the Samsung Rose after all.

 

[karnka]

A nice story but this is a forum about phones ;-)

Anyway, fingers crossed!