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Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe

Saintshroomie said:
I don't follow you. I agree that it is perfectly plausible that science could just be explaining the way god has made things, but that assumes god exists in the first place. What I find illogical is the idea of god. This thread is about the idea of creation from nothing, something many people say is impossible (unless your god of course), so then the question follows "If god is something, and something can't come from nothing, than what did god come from?".

The point is that an omnipotent god can't really be bound by logic, because then he would cease to be omnipotent. So if you could expand a little on how you think your God is logically explainable, I would appreciate it.
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And then tell us who created God. And who created that person, and on and on and on.

I say if you believe, fine. If you don't believe fine. Perhaps it is best to leave it at that and the faithful can rely upon faith as the only needed explanation; the scientists can provide a compendium of higher math and say, "See... I told you."

Me, I am going to the liqueur cabinet and stink up the homestead.

Bob Maxey
 
Dark Jedi said:
I think Mr Hawkins is a brilliant man and could only wish I had a tenth of his intellect . That being said do you think he is given special treatment than others because he is in a wheelchair and has a medical condition. You think he would be taken as seriously if he was able to walk and talk and be a healthy human being.
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He's given special treatment because with his seminal work on black holes with Roger Penrose, vast parts of the discipline of cosmology were re-written.

And then later worked to show how black holes aren't finite but actually dissipate to obey thermodynamics.

And then later worked to show how they tie to information theory. And created a stunning controversy until he proved he was wrong.

I am sorry man can try to be logical but in the end his emotions will always come in to play sometime down the road. We have always lived by our emotions and is our one flaw in life. It has been shown in here where people talk about be being logical but when someone goes against him or her. First thing that always happens is they let their emotions take over and they lash out.
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And these contaminate scientific thinking in the subtlest ways - and are the reason that refinements to discoveries can take generations.

Theories are just that what someone thinks is true. Look at Einstein. Some of his theories was proven wrong by people in this day and age. They are doing nothing but taking a guess and using a mathematical formula to say their right. Who can really say their wrong when what less than 1% of when worlds population could even comprehend the formula.
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Not so.

Relativity is proven as the correct framework and shall remain so until displaced. We've observed gravitational lensing as but one example, and Mercury's orbit can only be predicted using relativity equations.

The place where Einstein was most proven wrong was he introduced something called the Cosmological Constant into his equations because his equations said that the universe was expanding without it. He based this on a subtle religious-based belief that the universe is constant.

He later called it the greatest blunder of his life - because people would not drop the idea of refining it.

Hawkings has spent a lot of time refining it, and dark matter and dark energy work tend to hinge on it.

In the end with all their theories it all comes down to chance and that gives them a 50/50 chance of being right. They can no more prove the creation of the universe than they can tell you what the next card will be on the river in poker. I find it funny how when they have a theory and they are missing one thing to tie it in all together. They invent a new element or mass that has never been proven to exist.
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And they don't claim to. They simply create a new framework of thinking that is consistent with observations to date and reduces problems in the previous framework.

Einstein's principal work was in quantum theory - without which, your computer wouldn't exist.

And - he got some of that wrong. Not much though.

I won't comment on whether God exists or not - as said in Big Fish, it's just bound to alienate 50% of people.

But there's a saying that mathematics is the language with which God has written the universe.
 
Religion conveniently makes claims that cannot be reasonably proven or disproven with any type of test or experiment. Claims about divine beings that exist outside of the universe conveniently prevents anyone from observing them. Claims about what happens to your conciousness after your death is conveniently concealed from others since it cannot be independently observered.

I can make any claims about things outside of the universe. Because that place by definition cannot be observed by anyone so there is not way to prove or disprove my claims.
 
Stuntman said:
Religion conveniently makes claims that cannot be reasonably proven or disproven with any type of test or experiment. Claims about divine beings that exist outside of the universe conveniently prevents anyone from observing them. Claims about what happens to your conciousness after your death is conveniently concealed from others since it cannot be independently observered.

I can make any claims about things outside of the universe. Because that place by definition cannot be observed by anyone so there is not way to prove or disprove my claims.
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And new theories like string theory arrive that cannot be proven and by the admission of many "experts" will never be proven except through long and involved mathematical equations that may at some point be disproven. Just like God, so how does string theory differ from religion?

Faith is what religious people have and faith requires zero proof. It just is, and that
 
Bob Maxey said:
And then tell us who created God. And who created that person, and on and on and on.

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Who created god?

Man, of course, beginning in pre-historic times, when, fumbling around and in his ignorance, he tried to come up with an explanation and understanding of what he was yet incapable of understanding. You know, day, night, rain, floods, drought, stars, the moon, the sun, various animals, pieces of rock, the sea, all of which and more became his god(s) at one time or another.

From there, the concept of god evolved. As did man.

:)
 
Dark Jedi said:
I think Mr Hawkins is a brilliant man and could only wish I had a tenth of his intellect . That being said do you think he is given special treatment than others because he is in a wheelchair and has a medical condition. You think he would be taken as seriously if he was able to walk and talk and be a healthy human being.

I am sorry man can try to be logical but in the end his emotions will always come in to play sometime down the road. We have always lived by our emotions and is our one flaw in life. It has been shown in here where people talk about be being logical but when someone goes against him or her. First thing that always happens is they let their emotions take over and they lash out.

Theories are just that what someone thinks is true. Look at Einstein. Some of his theories was proven wrong by people in this day and age. They are doing nothing but taking a guess and using a mathematical formula to say their right. Who can really say their wrong when what less than 1% of when worlds population could even comprehend the formula.


In the end with all their theories it all comes down to chance and that gives them a 50/50 chance of being right. They can no more prove the creation of the universe than they can tell you what the next card will be on the river in poker. I find it funny how when they have a theory and they are missing one thing to tie it in all together. They invent a new element or mass that has never been proven to exist.

I am by no means saying I am right and your wrong. Just his I feel and I could be all wrong. I really don't care.lol

Have to start work now.
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Yes, I think Hawking is given more "credit" due to his condition. That said, he is smart. But Bach suffered problems with his peepers... is there anyone that doubts his brilliance?

Johann Sebastian Maxey
 
hakr100 said:
Who created god?

Man, of course, beginning in pre-historic times, when, fumbling around and in his ignorance, he tried to come up with an explanation and understanding of what he was yet incapable of understanding. You know, day, night, rain, floods, drought, stars, the moon, the sun, various animals, pieces of rock, the sea, all of which and more became his god(s) at one time or another.

From there, the concept of god evolved. As did man.

:)
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Yup, man had lots of gods. As for who created (or perhaps what) God, it is a questioon many have tried to answer. It is also a difficult question for theologins, so do not feel bad.

Bob Maxey
 
Bob Maxey said:
Yes, I think Hawking is given more "credit" due to his condition. That said, he is smart. But Bach suffered problems with his peepers... is there anyone that doubts his brilliance?

Johann Sebastian Maxey
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I was amused by (and largely agree with) this polling result from a decade ago taken among 100 physicists -

BBC News | SCI/TECH | Einstein the greatest
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Hawking was ranked as 16th in a web poll on this one.

While not shabby - I don't know of physicists giving Hawking more or less credit because of his condition.

Maybe some TV or the press media does think he's better. I dunno. I wouldn't listen to their opinion on the matter.

He ought be given credit as a fighter - it takes guts and toughness to work and live the way he's had to.

My favorite physics quote comes from Luis Alvarez (and this web version is - I'm pretty sure - inaccurate but close enough) -

There is no democracy in physics. We can
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Stinky Stinky said:
Hmm...

I am sorry theBeardedMan...

This is entirely not correct either...

Acceleration is a component of gravity.

And gravity is an atraction of two bodies that contain mass.... like a type of force.... but an unexplained type of force.

Here is a way of explaining it:

F = ma

where f = Force

and m = mass

and a = accerleration

now the question is what is acceleration?

easy:

a = v delta / t delta ( the "/" is divided by)

where v = velocity

and t = time

and delta = "change in"

a = v / t not gravity.

Acceleration is a component of gravity.

But you were on the right track.

Here is acceleration so they can explain help it more clearly:

Acceleration - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hope this helps
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This is an old thread, but multiple alternative universes ? , "Two research papers published in Physical Review Letters and Physical Review D are the first to detail how to search for signatures of other universes. Physicists are now searching for disk-like patterns in the cosmic microwave background (CMB) radiation -- relic heat radiation left over from the Big Bang -- which could provide tell-tale evidence of collisions between other universes and our own."

Is our universe inside a bubble? First observational test of the 'multiverse'
 
Are there any penalties for resurrecting an 8 month old thread? ;)
 
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