How aware are you?

[Snow_Fox]

So, Interesting thought.

How aware are you when you buy a phone as to whether or not it was going to get an update to whatever version.

No.. I am not asking if you heard from the manufacturer before you bought it there would be an update and believed them.

I am asking when you bought it did you know the full history of the company and what the odds are you would receive an update?

I am asking because, there seems to be a lot of complaints on any given phone about updates.

And how likely are you to buy from that company again?

The reason I am asking is I constantly hear (From more than one company) promises of updates.

However, I already know they are going to be slow/not happen at all.

There seem to be a lot of people saying they will never buy anything from _______ again.

So far it seems like the only certain thing is you don't really know what to count on.

Personally, I hate the fact that updates are so erradic.. but, I'm not really complaining. I'll take an android device I have to root and use roms on to get the newer Updates for any day over the alternatives.

However, a lot of other people seem a bit more frustrated.

Where do you stand?

I personally just accept the fact that unlike desktops.. they haven't quite perfected phones yet.

I can't wait until we can just load whatever OS we want on any phone capable and use skins at our own discretion.

I wonder if google would do that..

Put out some stock roms designed to replace whatever the manufacturer added..

Then Samsung, Htc, Motorola and all of them could have downloadable skins..

If one skin is snappier than stock or other skins.. use it.. if you odn't like it... uninstall and move on..

THat would be amazing.

Then windows could come out with windows mobile to compete..

So.. bam... android one day..

Not gunna see a charger for a few days? Switch to symbian!

*dreams on*

 

[adi19956]

I got the HTC official 2.2 update, it was shocking so I went back to the hacking community, ROMs from the community are better generally, so I don't mind.
If the various companies: Google, Symbian, Microsoft worked in collaboration with each other, we would experience a monopoly and so they would have no incentive to innovate. Therefore it is necessary that they DO NOT simply because the software develops faster.
If Moto, SE, HTC had downloadable skins, why would we buy their phones? That's the point in their overlays although I agree it'd be amazing and I suppose, at a good price, they'd make money off of it.

As to battery... didn't you argue that extra battery was pointless?

 

[EarlyMon]

I didn't. I had my hands full just picking my first Android phone. I went with Samsung Moment because it was vanilla Android. I expected updates whenever they needed to care for me - like on a PC. I have a net-enabled Sammy TV that gets regular updates. I was in for a big surprise.

The fancy phone anyone's got their eye on is already superior to what they're carrying. It's not easy to relate to people complaining about updating something that's already a huge upgrade to whatever you're carrying.

 

[adi19956]

I didn't. I had my hands full just picking my first Android phone. I went with Samsung Moment because it was vanilla Android. I expected updates whenever they needed to care for me - like on a PC. I have a net-enabled Sammy TV that gets regular updates. I was in for a big surprise.

The fancy phone anyone's got their eye on is already superior to what they're carrying. It's not easy to relate to people complaining about updating something that's already a huge upgrade to whatever you're carrying.

PCs only get little updates for security and occasionally a SP, they don't get major updates like from Vista to 7 for free so why should we expect them?

 

[EarlyMon]

Because unlike a commercial operating system, Android is open source and it seemed logical at the time that the makers and carriers would want to keep models as level as possible - within device constraints - to reduce support burdens. This was validated shortly after getting my Moment with a 1.6 (?) to 2.1 update - the last it ever saw.

And that aside - ask anyone with a US Galaxy S variant if they wouldn't appreciate a nice SP update right now, to fix their GPS issues.

Since getting my Evo on 6/6 (launch on 6/4) there has been a steady stream of updates - 5, including a 2.1 to 2.2 update - and there has been 8 if you count leaked updates.

This proves that the expectation of revision updates and fix updates is purely a matter of corporate will.

 

[lordofthereef]

I knew to avoid Samsung for this very reason. I didn't specifically do much searching in that regard though.

 

[SlowRain]

I knew that Samsung had promised 2.2 when I bought my Galaxy S, but I also knew they had a poor record delivering on their promises. To protect myself I just made sure the phone I was buying did everything I needed it to out of the box. Anything additional was just a bonus. However, I'm not the type who needs to have the latest and greatest, nor do I feel jealous/inadequate/angry if someone has a better phone than I do.

 

[Green1]

I mostly had a pretty limited selection of phones at the time, and had basically narrowed it down to only 1 real contender. I was happy to note that the 2.2 update was expected "soon" however I learned long ago to NEVER count on any updates to consumer devices after purchase. I've heard many people suggest looking for the right hardware, because even if the software is buggy that can be fixed in an update.
Having seen how most companies work, I can't advocate that. You have to look at both the hardware and the software, and assume that neither will ever change as long as you own the device. If you aren't ok with that, you should be looking at a different device.
Hardware vendors know that once they have your money, there's no need to do anything for you ever again.

 

[EarlyMon]

My wife's Moment is in desparate need of bug fixes.

Others with Galaxy S types in the US are in the same boat.

This has zero to do with latest/greatest.

 

[dan330]

yes.. from past experience I knew to look for device that I felt had good vendor backing and support.

and..

good dev support in the mod community. that is why I selected the HTC over EPIC.

 

[davidnmegan6907]

yes.. from past experience I knew to look for device that I felt had good vendor backing and support.

and..

good dev support in the mod community. that is why I selected the HTC over EPIC.

Well I can say we have a good set of devs in the fascinate community. They are on track of making something out of nothing..

 

[johnlgalt]

When I bought my droid, I researched long and hard. The main selling points were that it was vanilla, and that it was eclair. And I'm one of those that says that I will not buy motorola as long as they continue to use efuse. I can get rid of motoblah, but efuse is a whole different ballgame.

Efuse == boycott on my part. PERIOD.

 

[jroc]

I wasnt aware until recently. I did have an Omnia 1 but it didnt last long enough for me to know about updates for it. I ran from that phone into the open arms of the Droid 1...

I thought ppl were exaggerating about Samsung and updates until I started keeping up with the Galaxy S line. And knowing that was a complaint from folks on their Win Mo phones...it is something to think about with Samsung.

I'm with SlowRain, its it running fine now, be happy. Yea I do use Flash for a radio website and I used chrome to phone like crazy when it came out (it was a godsend at work, but dont use it as much now..too busy at work these days), but if the phone is working fine for you just be happy.

 

[rubiconjp]

...and I believe that this is where, outside of a Nexus phone, all android phones fall behind the apple iPhone. My old iPhone 3g was upgraded from 2.2 to 2.2.1 to 3.0 to 3.0.1 to 3.1.2 to 3.1.3 to 4.0 to 4.1 and then to the current 4.2.

That's a whopping 8 upgrades (and possibly even more) from Apple - the company which we all love to hate!

My Samsung galaxy S - I am hoping for 2 and praying for 3.

 

[wordgirl]

It was definitely a learning experience for me.

I was way overdue for a new phone, and had a laundry list of things I wanted a phone to be able to do before I made the leap into a two-year, locked-in data plan. (I was month-to-month at the time.)

Captivate was the first phone that APPEARED to have all the features I wanted. I understood that some of those features would be coming, but the pre-release campaign made it sound as if Froyo were just around the corner and then I'd have everything I wanted. So I made the leap.

Had I known I was facing an indefinite wait of more than six months, I would have jumped carriers and waited a bit more.

 

[EarlyMon]

...and I believe that this is where, outside of a Nexus phone, all android phones fall behind the apple iPhone. My old iPhone 3g was upgraded from 2.2 to 2.2.1 to 3.0 to 3.0.1 to 3.1.2 to 3.1.3 to 4.0 to 4.1 and then to the current 4.2.

That's a whopping 8 upgrades (and possibly even more) from Apple - the company which we all love to hate!

A slight exaggeration there - not all Android phones besides the Nexus fall behind the iPhone in updates. You're counting a long line of 8 updates over time for the iP3g - two and half years worth.

As I noted above, the HTC Evo has seen 5 of those in just over a half year.

Plus, note that Apple got its multitasking beginning with 4.0 iOS - we've had it at our house since 1.6 Android.

It's Samsung in particular that I'm familiar with that's really the upgrade foot-dragger. It was that upgrade history that prevented us from replacing that remaining Moment with an Epic - and that same history that has us window-shopping, at minimum, for the HTC Evo Shift this weekend.

Personally, I'm not an Apple hater - I own some of their other stuff and like the right tool for the job. I just wanted to set the record straight - Samsung is selling a lot of Android, but Samsung is not all Android.

 

[Snow_Fox]

As to battery... didn't you argue that extra battery was pointless?

I never argued extra battery was pointless.

I argued that its only fair the more powerful a device is the less battery life it will ultimately have.

It is just how the world works in that regard.

You want a bugati veyron? your gunna burn your entire gas tank if you go fast enough in 15 minutes!

Well I can say we have a good set of devs in the fascinate community. They are on track of making something out of nothing..

The devs are part of what is very redeeming about the Galaxy S line altogether.

It does suck the company won't fix them.. But, hey the fact that the phone can be fixed is such a huge step over so many other products out there. (not really referring to phones with the other products.. but, imagine if for everything you got.. there was the ability for annoyed users to fix it!)

 

[rubiconjp]

A slight exaggeration there - not all Android phones besides the Nexus fall behind the iPhone in updates. You're counting a long line of 8 updates over time for the iP3g - two and half years worth.

As I noted above, the HTC Evo has seen 5 of those in just over a half year.

Plus, note that Apple got its multitasking beginning with 4.0 iOS - we've had it at our house since 1.6 Android.

It's Samsung in particular that I'm familiar with that's really the upgrade foot-dragger. It was that upgrade history that prevented us from replacing that remaining Moment with an Epic - and that same history that has us window-shopping, at minimum, for the HTC Evo Shift this weekend.

Personally, I'm not an Apple hater - I own some of their other stuff and like the right tool for the job. I just wanted to set the record straight - Samsung is selling a lot of Android, but Samsung is not all Android.

EarlyMon, we got our iPhone 3G phones in Jan 2009 (for me and wife). They both came with 2.2 software. I jailbroke both phones, so because of that, I skipped over quite a few updates from Apple. If I had upgraded the phones with every single update available from Apple, the count would be 11 over a period of slightly less than 2 years. And even today, an almost 3 year old iPhone 3G can still get new updates from Apple. This is quite decent customer after-sale support.

The original iPhone 2G (released in june 2007) went thru 20 updates from Apple before being dropped from update support with iOS 4.0 release.

Since getting burned by Samsung, I will only consider HTC for my next Android phone. Can you list out the updates from HTC for your EVO? 5 updates in less than a year is definitely excellent support. So far I think HTC and LG have been pretty good with updates. Samsung, Sony (no 2.2 for X10), Motorola (quick updates but efuse), are less desirable.

Thanks.

 

[EarlyMon]

Sure, glad to (list is longer than the official 5, as I _hope_ I noted above) -

HTC Supersonic/ROMs - XDA-Developers

We started getting bug fixes on day 1 - within a month, we actually got a slight performance increase (battery, smoothness of response and more bug fixes) with 1.47 (HTC rev number). Within 5 weeks of that, official Froyo support. 6 weeks after that, more enhancements. Last update was to address deep defects (strange combo of activities causing reboots not affecting everyone for example) and 4G performance upgrade that some report as increasing speed and enhancing battery life during 4G use.

Oh - and somewhere along that foodchain, they lifted the 30 fps UI throttling they'd put in the kernel originally.

With each update comes some new defect (Murphy's Law is alive and well at HTC) - the active Evo community here is always finding ways around those, it seems to me, and those always seemed to be addressed at the next update.

HTC does a lot of their R&D in the United States - they seem to read our forums (OK, I _know_ they do) and while you're unlikely to see them respond here, you'll be likely to see them respond to what we have to say.

BTW, don't know how you feel about rooting, but later on that same page is the deep list of custom roms available. Here's the list of just kernels you can try:

HTC Supersonic/Kernels - XDA-Developers

And your number one pleasure stepping over to an HTC where updates and management is concerned - no Samsung/Windows software required to update or tinker with anything. Straight drag&drop over USB of any resource you can't get to via the phone, and you're there. No Odin, no Kies, no three-button Vulcan nerve pinches (just a two-button nerve pinch).

EDIT and PS -

Yes - many, many of us were running HTC Froyo since July 30 by sneaking in a beta test leaked to Twitter. Within a few weeks of getting everyone their Froyo on August 3, they gave us an update patch to reconcile us with what the more patient others got - no penalties, no HTC whining, no you're-on-your-own - just full, nice support.

 

[Tangent]

PCs only get little updates for security and occasionally a SP, they don't get major updates like from Vista to 7 for free so why should we expect them?

Updates from Vista to 7 only happen every few years at most, not only a regular every-few-months basis as is the case with Android. Also, PC OS updates usually are major almost group-up redesigns of the product. The changes that you get between Android versions, even going as far as 1.5 to 2.2 are not nearly as major. I'd say they're much closer to the bug fixes or service packs that are released for free for home computer OSs. Even when comparing Android with a PC OS, I'd say comparing to Linux is much more appropriate than comparing to Windows. The last versions of Linux I played around with were all free...

Back to the original question though: My major concern was the hardware, not the speed that the manufacturer released updates. I figured that worst case scenario I could just root and install the latest CM ROM.

 

[takeshi]

How aware are you when you buy a phone as to whether or not it was going to get an update to whatever version.

No.. I am not asking if you heard from the manufacturer before you bought it there would be an update and believed them.

I am asking when you bought it did you know the full history of the company and what the odds are you would receive an update?

Not at all. How would I considering that I have a Droid? Motorola had no Android history at that point. It's certainly a point on my checklist now though.

I am asking because, there seems to be a lot of complaints on any given phone about updates.

That seems to speak more to the culture of expectation than update issues to me.

I personally just accept the fact that unlike desktops.. they haven't quite perfected phones yet.

It's not a matter of perfection/imperfection. It's a matter of every design decision being a compromise. Mobile devices aren't desktops. Hardware abstraction (prerequisite for loading any OS on any device like your desktop PC) takes power and coding -- both for the OS and the countless drivers. Devices already chew through their batteries quickly as it is. Some devices also bog down as it is. For any given feature that someone wants to add there are any number of reasons why the feature wasn't included whether it was a matter of man hours, money, hardware limitations, etc. We're still at the point where tightly integrating the code and hardware makes sense when you're looking at the bigger picture. That can certainly change over time though.

Let's assume that it's even possible to design and manufacture a "nearly perfect" smartphone. We can construe that the costs of this product would be astronomical and that it would take forever to release. That's the reality of products. They have to fit within a budget and within a timeline. They're not just a collection of specs magically willed into existence for fanboys to drool over. It does no good to develop products that no consumer could afford. It also does no good to develop products that never get released.

Expecting anything to be "perfect" is just setting up yourself for fail. Nothing is perfect. Nothing will be perfect. If the perfect smartphone was released then why would anything else ever follow it? There's always room for improvement. Even desktops aren't perfect despite your claim to the contrary.

I can't wait until we can just load whatever OS we want on any phone capable and use skins at our own discretion.

I wonder if google would do that..

Why would they? Think about what their core business* truly is. Why would they have any interest in Android given their core business?


* It's advertising, in case you forgot already. Controlling a popular smartphone platform is in their interest because it gives them more advertising channels and the ability to aggregate data.

 

[Stuntman]

Smartphones are so complex that I find it impossible to know if I will be happy with it until I buy it and use it for a few weeks. There are just so many features and functions of smartphones, that even if you did your research, there are probably going to be something new you did not realise after using it. I certainly do not know what features Froyo has and what feature Gingerbread has that I would want anyway.

My current phone is a Desire Z which I got in November. It was fairly new at the time and runs Froyo. I'm not overly concerned about being able to put Gingerbread on it. Although, there are some features I that are lacking on the DZ right now, I think this would be the case for any phone. I can live with the DZ as is. An upgrade would be nice, but I don't really think about it too much at all.

 

[AndroidSPCS]

I may be the strange one here, I buy a phone for what it does AS IS. If it works fine as is, then I'm happy.

I have an Epic on 2.1, and an Evo on 2.2. Both work fine for my purposes. My life is not ruined if the Epic doesn't have 2.2 by Friday. My Epic works for me fine on 2.1.

Would I be happy if Epic got 2.2 soon? Sure, but if it didn't, it wouldn't ruin my life.